Homeless in Seattle

On Wednesday, April 24, 2019 at 11:03:27 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 4:15:05 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 13:49:40 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 12:33:02 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 12:01:42 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, April 18, 2019 at 9:48:53 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Some posters here have gone on and on about homeless people, and
specifically homeless people in Seattle.

Here are interesting details about one of them:
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ss-in-seattle/

--
- Frank Krygowski

This is pretty much the same in every single state controlled
by Democrats. It is a sickness that cannot be cured.

So the staggering number of homeless in Texas can be cured? Why
is homelessness so low in Bernie Sanders' home state of Vermont?
https://www.usich.gov/tools-for-action/map/#fn[]=1400&fn[]=2900&fn[]=6000&fn[]=9900&fn[]=13500


-- Jay Beattie.

Come on Jay, Vermont has a relatively tiny population and it is a
state that makes Washington state look like Hawaii. And yet
Vermont has about half the RATE of homelessness as
Washington. Oregon with a little better weather conditions than
Washington has a little worse homeless rate.

You can check out the weather in those areas - while Vermont has
bad weather in the winter, relatively New Hampshire has a long sea
coast heated by the Gulf Stream and the slightly better weather
translates into more homeless.

Err... New Hampshire's "long seacoast" is 18 miles long :-)
The average daily highs in that area are (average December, January
and February) 35 degrees (F) and nightly lows are 12 degrees (F).

It is strange, growing up in New Hampshire there just didn't seem to
have been any "homeless". There were "Hobo's", who were homeless, but
they migrated to more hospitable climes during the winters.
--

Cheers,

John B.

I misread that large number of homeless from Massachusetts to New
Hampshire. The homeless ratio is actually very low. Mass. is pretty
surprising so I guess they have some large cities in which they can
seek shelter from the conditions.

I have seen homeless dudes sleeping on the sidewalks of Boston when it
was well below 0F. Sometimes they freeze and die. I know of a few
homeless encampments near me (much more suburban than Boston), and more
that have been broken up. I don't see any of them camping in the woods
during the winter; I'm not sure where they go.

But it is NOTHING like the west coast. San Francisco is the Homeless
city by the bay and LA is incredible. When you can drive for 3 miles
on main streets with each side of the street lined with homeless tent
shelters it makes you want to cry. The real basis for all of this is
illegal immigration.

I have known a fair number of both homeless people and illegal
immigrants. I have never known a homeless illegal immigrant. Being
visibly homeless exposes a person to much more police interaction than any
illegal immigrant would want.

Maybe that's just my idiosyncratic experience.

I think you misunderstand me. Many of these homeless people would be upper-lower class workers and housing prices have been driven so high from population growing much faster than housing, that the price of housing is completely out of reach.

Illegals are far more likely to live several families to a small home. Now a LOT of the illegals are highly skilled manual labor people that are valuable to this country. But are they more valuable than Americans?

I'll repeat an experience I had. I went to put a package in the mail, I got there 5 minutes before the Post Office opened. I was looking around waiting and all of the local signs were in Spanish. There was what appeared to be a homeless person with a shopping cart full of all of her possessions. I had a couple of 5's in my pocket so I went over to give them to her.

She was absolutely crying her heart out. She had just been evicted from her one room apartment so that the illegal owner could put an illegal family in there. To her she had no place to go and nowhere to turn. I was so heartbroken for her I cannot describe it. Jay chimed in the first time that "she has plenty of HHS to turn to." Tell that to a 70 year old obese black woman who has just been kicked out so that the owner could make more money.

I happen to feel people's pain because I was nearly in that position while we were young and before the RR was unionized. Five people living in a 600 sq ft house with coal fireplace for heating and coal stove for cooking. The coal was liberated from the hopper cars on the railroad.

Yesterday my wife had a program on TV called "Tiny House" and it was 600 sq feet for one man and his two boys weekending.

On Wednesday, April 24, 2019 at 3:49:34 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 24, 2019 at 12:22:03 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 9:48:39 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 8:48:08 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/22/2019 10:42 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 22:10:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/22/2019 8:13 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/22/2019 6:15 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 13:49:40 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 12:33:02 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 12:01:42 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Thursday, April 18, 2019 at 9:48:53 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
Some posters here have gone on and on about homeless people, and
specifically homeless people in Seattle.

Here are interesting details about one of them:
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ss-in-seattle/


--
- Frank Krygowski

This is pretty much the same in every single state controlled by
Democrats. It is a sickness that cannot be cured.

So the staggering number of homeless in Texas can be cured? Why is
homelessness so low in Bernie Sanders' home state of Vermont?
https://www.usich.gov/tools-for-action/map/#fn[]=1400&fn[]=2900&fn[]=6000&fn[]=9900&fn[]=13500



-- Jay Beattie.

Come on Jay, Vermont has a relatively tiny population and it is a
state that makes Washington state look like Hawaii. And yet Vermont
has about half the RATE of homelessness as Washington. Oregon with a
little better weather conditions than Washington has a little worse
homeless rate.

You can check out the weather in those areas - while Vermont has bad
weather in the winter, relatively New Hampshire has a long sea coast
heated by the Gulf Stream and the slightly better weather translates
into more homeless.

Err... New Hampshire's "long seacoast" is 18 miles long :-)
The average daily highs in that area are (average December, January
and February) 35 degrees (F) and nightly lows are 12 degrees (F).

It is strange, growing up in New Hampshire there just didn't seem to
have been any "homeless". There were "Hobo's", who were homeless, but
they migrated to more hospitable climes during the winters.


more homeless update:

https://700wlw.iheart.com/featured/s...-poop-problem/

To paraphrase Mark Twain (or perhaps someone else): Just like the
weather, everybody talks about the homeless problem but nobody does
anything about it.

Apparently the homeless have existed in the U.S., essentially since
the place was first settled and substantial numbers of the
"immigrants" were actually Vagabonds, an English term to describe
those without a job or place to live. According to:
http://www.earlyamericancrime.com/co...ges/overview-2

"From the time of the first settlers to the American Revolution, close
to three quarters of all immigrants to the thirteen American colonies
arrived on American shores without their freedom, coming over as
slaves, convicts, or indentured servants. Even during the seventeenth
century only 33 percent of immigrants to America were free"

Of course, once an indentured servant completed his indenture he might
be given land, there was plenty of it about, and with the ownership of
"property" gain the privilege of voting.

I suspect that the modern "homeless" may well be simply a part of the
urbanization of the country. When a large majority of the population
lived on farms there was always work to be had but when the big move
to the cities (where the money is) there were fewer unskilled jobs
available. Than came the decentralization of factories and cities like
Detroit almost literally died with the loss of work.

Now of course, with computerization there is even fewer jobs available
and more of them require specialized technical knowledge that just
isn't available to all and sundry. There are, for example, some 50,000
licensed taxi drivers in New York City. With the advent of driverless
vehicles some 50,000 might be out of a job. Is there any work
available for them?

I agree, that's probably one of the roots of the problem. And I don't
see it getting better.

Our economic system generates more profits to those who reduce expenses,
and employees are seen as expenses. In a three shift factory, one robot
can easily replace three workers, and probably more. It can often pay
for itself quite quickly even without the benefits of more consistent
operation, better quality control, etc.

But even the most charitable auto manufacturer (for a wildly theoretical
example) couldn't say "I'm not going to use robots. I'm going to
continue giving people jobs by doing things by hand." If the company did
that, it would soon go bankrupt.

The problem isn't just robots, though. It's all through commerce.
Grocery stores and hardware stores near me have more "self checkout"
stations than cashier stations. I no longer get to call a company and
have a receptionist direct my call; instead, I listen to a minute of
menu choices and try to navigate to my intended contact by pressing
buttons myself, or by shouting into their voice recognition system.

This trend even infects volunteer work. Our club newsletter used to be
done by a team of friends working at someone's kitchen table, doing
literal cut-and-pasting. (The newsletter won a national award back in
those days.) Now it can be done only by the few club members with
Desktop Publishing experience.

But take heart. The rich are getting richer at an ever faster pace, so
all is not lost. :-/

We have historically low unemployment and tying homelessness to the non-availability of jobs is difficult. A more serious problem is that existing jobs do not pay enough to keep up with escalating housing prices. You have to wonder, however, how many homeless are economically displaced versus drug addled or insane. Very few of the homeless I see are simply down on their luck and unable to find a cheap apartment. It's not Hooverville out there -- it looks more like a scene out of the Walking Dead. I have no idea what one does for those people within the confines of modern morality.

-- Jay Beattie.

Well, I agree with you but I see several illegal families to a home. This allows them to pay a great deal more for housing than Americans who will not share housing as easily.

Here's he problem: the jobs that a large number of illegals are capable of doing are much better done with automation. If we did not have this cheap labor force we would convert assembly lines etc. to automation.



Really? Please point me to the automatic MACHINE that picks fruit trees such as orange, apple, grape vines. Or tomatoes. California and Florida and many fruit/vegetable states are heavily dependent on immigrants (legal or illegal) to carry on their economy. And don't forget the groundskeepers and cleaning immigrants working at Trumps's Florida golf course. Do machines automatically cut grass, rake leaves, clean bathrooms, make beds? Please point them out.

Are you a farmer? Tomatoes are almost entirely picked by machine. Fruit trees are often in such small numbers that they are picked by the owner. Grapes are pretty much small wineries and mostly picked by the vintner and small staff.

I remember when grapes were picked by green card migrants but quality swallowed that up.

To give you some ideas - My great-cousin Martin Miljerac had 20 acres of walnuts along where the El Camino Real now is. He picked the entire crop himself with some automation from the 20's.

Another cousin had 20 acres in Tracy where he farmed tomatoes and he picked the entire crop himself with maybe one helper. He also kept diary cows and made butter as they used to sell it - in jars.

Plums and those sorts of fruit ripen at remarkably different times. So farmers can tell by touching them which are ready to be picked. They do not go out and pick every fruit off of the tree all at once.

I have a single orange tree in my backyard that makes about a 500 lbs of fruit a year. When you go out there you can seldom find more than a couple of ripe fruit. The same with the lemon tree next to it that I have to cut down and replace. This starts in early winter and runs through to late spring.

Modern tomato farmers use a commercial variety that turns red while it is still not ripe. This makes machine harvesting pretty easy. And that is also why you cannot begin to match the quality of tomato sauce in cans by full tomatoes you buy out of a store. Every couple of years I grow tomatoes in the back yard and harvest them only when they're ripe. This can make tomato sauce just like you can buy in taste without the chemicals for preservation. I will make a couple dozen bottles and freeze some of them to use as I go along.

I imagine but am not sure, that canneries use migrants but they ALWAYS could get green cards. This allows the canneries to pick ONLY ripe fruit and have the highest quality of tomato products. Most of these migrant workers used to get green cards but that slowed to a stop with our getting THOUSANDS of illegals crossing. Now it is so difficult to get a green card that they simply cross illegally and then THESE are the people that used to get green cards but are now marked as illegals because of the thousands pouring into the cities.

On 4/24/2019 5:49 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 24, 2019 at 12:22:03 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 9:48:39 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 8:48:08 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/22/2019 10:42 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 22:10:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/22/2019 8:13 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/22/2019 6:15 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 13:49:40 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 12:33:02 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 12:01:42 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Thursday, April 18, 2019 at 9:48:53 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
Some posters here have gone on and on about homeless people, and
specifically homeless people in Seattle.

Here are interesting details about one of them:
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ss-in-seattle/


--
- Frank Krygowski

This is pretty much the same in every single state controlled by
Democrats. It is a sickness that cannot be cured.

So the staggering number of homeless in Texas can be cured? Why is
homelessness so low in Bernie Sanders' home state of Vermont?
https://www.usich.gov/tools-for-action/map/#fn[]=1400&fn[]=2900&fn[]=6000&fn[]=9900&fn[]=13500



-- Jay Beattie.

Come on Jay, Vermont has a relatively tiny population and it is a
state that makes Washington state look like Hawaii. And yet Vermont
has about half the RATE of homelessness as Washington. Oregon with a
little better weather conditions than Washington has a little worse
homeless rate.

You can check out the weather in those areas - while Vermont has bad
weather in the winter, relatively New Hampshire has a long sea coast
heated by the Gulf Stream and the slightly better weather translates
into more homeless.

Err... New Hampshire's "long seacoast" is 18 miles long :-)
The average daily highs in that area are (average December, January
and February) 35 degrees (F) and nightly lows are 12 degrees (F).

It is strange, growing up in New Hampshire there just didn't seem to
have been any "homeless". There were "Hobo's", who were homeless, but
they migrated to more hospitable climes during the winters.


more homeless update:

https://700wlw.iheart.com/featured/s...-poop-problem/

To paraphrase Mark Twain (or perhaps someone else): Just like the
weather, everybody talks about the homeless problem but nobody does
anything about it.

Apparently the homeless have existed in the U.S., essentially since
the place was first settled and substantial numbers of the
"immigrants" were actually Vagabonds, an English term to describe
those without a job or place to live. According to:
http://www.earlyamericancrime.com/co...ges/overview-2

"From the time of the first settlers to the American Revolution, close
to three quarters of all immigrants to the thirteen American colonies
arrived on American shores without their freedom, coming over as
slaves, convicts, or indentured servants. Even during the seventeenth
century only 33 percent of immigrants to America were free"

Of course, once an indentured servant completed his indenture he might
be given land, there was plenty of it about, and with the ownership of
"property" gain the privilege of voting.

I suspect that the modern "homeless" may well be simply a part of the
urbanization of the country. When a large majority of the population
lived on farms there was always work to be had but when the big move
to the cities (where the money is) there were fewer unskilled jobs
available. Than came the decentralization of factories and cities like
Detroit almost literally died with the loss of work.

Now of course, with computerization there is even fewer jobs available
and more of them require specialized technical knowledge that just
isn't available to all and sundry. There are, for example, some 50,000
licensed taxi drivers in New York City. With the advent of driverless
vehicles some 50,000 might be out of a job. Is there any work
available for them?

I agree, that's probably one of the roots of the problem. And I don't
see it getting better.

Our economic system generates more profits to those who reduce expenses,
and employees are seen as expenses. In a three shift factory, one robot
can easily replace three workers, and probably more. It can often pay
for itself quite quickly even without the benefits of more consistent
operation, better quality control, etc.

But even the most charitable auto manufacturer (for a wildly theoretical
example) couldn't say "I'm not going to use robots. I'm going to
continue giving people jobs by doing things by hand." If the company did
that, it would soon go bankrupt.

The problem isn't just robots, though. It's all through commerce.
Grocery stores and hardware stores near me have more "self checkout"
stations than cashier stations. I no longer get to call a company and
have a receptionist direct my call; instead, I listen to a minute of
menu choices and try to navigate to my intended contact by pressing
buttons myself, or by shouting into their voice recognition system.

This trend even infects volunteer work. Our club newsletter used to be
done by a team of friends working at someone's kitchen table, doing
literal cut-and-pasting. (The newsletter won a national award back in
those days.) Now it can be done only by the few club members with
Desktop Publishing experience.

But take heart. The rich are getting richer at an ever faster pace, so
all is not lost. :-/

We have historically low unemployment and tying homelessness to the non-availability of jobs is difficult. A more serious problem is that existing jobs do not pay enough to keep up with escalating housing prices. You have to wonder, however, how many homeless are economically displaced versus drug addled or insane. Very few of the homeless I see are simply down on their luck and unable to find a cheap apartment. It's not Hooverville out there -- it looks more like a scene out of the Walking Dead. I have no idea what one does for those people within the confines of modern morality.

-- Jay Beattie.

Well, I agree with you but I see several illegal families to a home. This allows them to pay a great deal more for housing than Americans who will not share housing as easily.

Here's he problem: the jobs that a large number of illegals are capable of doing are much better done with automation. If we did not have this cheap labor force we would convert assembly lines etc. to automation.



Really? Please point me to the automatic MACHINE that picks fruit trees such as orange, apple, grape vines. Or tomatoes. California and Florida and many fruit/vegetable states are heavily dependent on immigrants (legal or illegal) to carry on their economy. And don't forget the groundskeepers and cleaning immigrants working at Trumps's Florida golf course. Do machines automatically cut grass, rake leaves, clean bathrooms, make beds? Please point them out.




The Democrat claim that we need a cheap labor force is a farce. Gavin Newsom going to Central America and telling people there that California needs more labor should end up with him in prison.


As with the fast food industry, robotization is coming
although it will probably never obviate all low-skill
handwork. Serious money is pouring into development and in
today's paper I see that Brasil's recent surge in Arabica
coffee production is due in some part to automated bean
harvesters (developed in Brasil) , which work 24 hours
unlike humans.

https://www.public.harvestai.com/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/robots-...les-1429781404

https://www.fraunhofer.de/en/press/r...uliflower.html

of specific interset to California:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...all-180953794/

And also note that Vietnam captured a huge chunk of cashew
production in just a few years due to their superior
Vietnamese-developed automated systems.

Like it or not, the robots are coming. Not for everything
but not none either.
and so on.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 4/24/2019 6:10 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 24, 2019 at 11:03:27 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 4:15:05 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 13:49:40 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 12:33:02 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 12:01:42 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, April 18, 2019 at 9:48:53 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Some posters here have gone on and on about homeless people, and
specifically homeless people in Seattle.

Here are interesting details about one of them:
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ss-in-seattle/

--
- Frank Krygowski

This is pretty much the same in every single state controlled
by Democrats. It is a sickness that cannot be cured.

So the staggering number of homeless in Texas can be cured? Why
is homelessness so low in Bernie Sanders' home state of Vermont?
https://www.usich.gov/tools-for-action/map/#fn[]=1400&fn[]=2900&fn[]=6000&fn[]=9900&fn[]=13500


-- Jay Beattie.

Come on Jay, Vermont has a relatively tiny population and it is a
state that makes Washington state look like Hawaii. And yet
Vermont has about half the RATE of homelessness as
Washington. Oregon with a little better weather conditions than
Washington has a little worse homeless rate.

You can check out the weather in those areas - while Vermont has
bad weather in the winter, relatively New Hampshire has a long sea
coast heated by the Gulf Stream and the slightly better weather
translates into more homeless.

Err... New Hampshire's "long seacoast" is 18 miles long :-)
The average daily highs in that area are (average December, January
and February) 35 degrees (F) and nightly lows are 12 degrees (F).

It is strange, growing up in New Hampshire there just didn't seem to
have been any "homeless". There were "Hobo's", who were homeless, but
they migrated to more hospitable climes during the winters.
--

Cheers,

John B.

I misread that large number of homeless from Massachusetts to New
Hampshire. The homeless ratio is actually very low. Mass. is pretty
surprising so I guess they have some large cities in which they can
seek shelter from the conditions.

I have seen homeless dudes sleeping on the sidewalks of Boston when it
was well below 0F. Sometimes they freeze and die. I know of a few
homeless encampments near me (much more suburban than Boston), and more
that have been broken up. I don't see any of them camping in the woods
during the winter; I'm not sure where they go.

But it is NOTHING like the west coast. San Francisco is the Homeless
city by the bay and LA is incredible. When you can drive for 3 miles
on main streets with each side of the street lined with homeless tent
shelters it makes you want to cry. The real basis for all of this is
illegal immigration.

I have known a fair number of both homeless people and illegal
immigrants. I have never known a homeless illegal immigrant. Being
visibly homeless exposes a person to much more police interaction than any
illegal immigrant would want.

Maybe that's just my idiosyncratic experience.

I think you misunderstand me. Many of these homeless people would be upper-lower class workers and housing prices have been driven so high from population growing much faster than housing, that the price of housing is completely out of reach.

Illegals are far more likely to live several families to a small home. Now a LOT of the illegals are highly skilled manual labor people that are valuable to this country. But are they more valuable than Americans?

I'll repeat an experience I had. I went to put a package in the mail, I got there 5 minutes before the Post Office opened. I was looking around waiting and all of the local signs were in Spanish. There was what appeared to be a homeless person with a shopping cart full of all of her possessions. I had a couple of 5's in my pocket so I went over to give them to her.

She was absolutely crying her heart out. She had just been evicted from her one room apartment so that the illegal owner could put an illegal family in there. To her she had no place to go and nowhere to turn. I was so heartbroken for her I cannot describe it. Jay chimed in the first time that "she has plenty of HHS to turn to." Tell that to a 70 year old obese black woman who has just been kicked out so that the owner could make more money.

I happen to feel people's pain because I was nearly in that position while we were young and before the RR was unionized. Five people living in a 600 sq ft house with coal fireplace for heating and coal stove for cooking. The coal was liberated from the hopper cars on the railroad.

Yesterday my wife had a program on TV called "Tiny House" and it was 600 sq feet for one man and his two boys weekending.


Tom you're not much older than I.
You do not remember railroads before unions.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

" writes:

On Wednesday, April 24, 2019 at 12:14:33 PM UTC-5, wrote:

But it is NOTHING like the west coast. San Francisco is the Homeless
city by the bay and LA is incredible. When you can drive for 3 miles
on main streets with each side of the street lined with homeless
tent shelters it makes you want to cry. The real basis for all of
this is illegal immigration.


Did a simple Google search on the makeup of the homeless population.
My search results said 49% were WHITE. I think we can safely say
whites/Caucasians are not illegal immigrants. My results also said

How the hell can we say that? I have been personally acquainted with an
English illegal immigrant and I can assure you she was white. Nice
girl, overstayed her student visa by quite a few years. Also knew a
family of Moldovans that would have been illegal immigrants if their
paperwork had not come through -- definitively caucasian.

My results also said
blacks and Indians are over represented in the homeless population
compared to their total population percentage. I think we can safely
say blacks and Indians are also probably not illegal immigrants. So
are you just lying to us and making up lies when you say "The real
basis for all of this is illegal immigration."

Besides, all the illegal immigrants shack up with their relatives who
illegally immigrated the year before. They're not homeless.

--

On Wednesday, April 24, 2019 at 5:06:22 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/24/2019 6:10 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 24, 2019 at 11:03:27 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 4:15:05 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 13:49:40 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 12:33:02 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 12:01:42 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, April 18, 2019 at 9:48:53 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Some posters here have gone on and on about homeless people, and
specifically homeless people in Seattle.

Here are interesting details about one of them:
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ss-in-seattle/

--
- Frank Krygowski

This is pretty much the same in every single state controlled
by Democrats. It is a sickness that cannot be cured.

So the staggering number of homeless in Texas can be cured? Why
is homelessness so low in Bernie Sanders' home state of Vermont?
https://www.usich.gov/tools-for-action/map/#fn[]=1400&fn[]=2900&fn[]=6000&fn[]=9900&fn[]=13500


-- Jay Beattie.

Come on Jay, Vermont has a relatively tiny population and it is a
state that makes Washington state look like Hawaii. And yet
Vermont has about half the RATE of homelessness as
Washington. Oregon with a little better weather conditions than
Washington has a little worse homeless rate.

You can check out the weather in those areas - while Vermont has
bad weather in the winter, relatively New Hampshire has a long sea
coast heated by the Gulf Stream and the slightly better weather
translates into more homeless.

Err... New Hampshire's "long seacoast" is 18 miles long :-)
The average daily highs in that area are (average December, January
and February) 35 degrees (F) and nightly lows are 12 degrees (F).

It is strange, growing up in New Hampshire there just didn't seem to
have been any "homeless". There were "Hobo's", who were homeless, but
they migrated to more hospitable climes during the winters.
--

Cheers,

John B.

I misread that large number of homeless from Massachusetts to New
Hampshire. The homeless ratio is actually very low. Mass. is pretty
surprising so I guess they have some large cities in which they can
seek shelter from the conditions.

I have seen homeless dudes sleeping on the sidewalks of Boston when it
was well below 0F. Sometimes they freeze and die. I know of a few
homeless encampments near me (much more suburban than Boston), and more
that have been broken up. I don't see any of them camping in the woods
during the winter; I'm not sure where they go.

But it is NOTHING like the west coast. San Francisco is the Homeless
city by the bay and LA is incredible. When you can drive for 3 miles
on main streets with each side of the street lined with homeless tent
shelters it makes you want to cry. The real basis for all of this is
illegal immigration.

I have known a fair number of both homeless people and illegal
immigrants. I have never known a homeless illegal immigrant. Being
visibly homeless exposes a person to much more police interaction than any
illegal immigrant would want.

Maybe that's just my idiosyncratic experience.

I think you misunderstand me. Many of these homeless people would be upper-lower class workers and housing prices have been driven so high from population growing much faster than housing, that the price of housing is completely out of reach.

Illegals are far more likely to live several families to a small home. Now a LOT of the illegals are highly skilled manual labor people that are valuable to this country. But are they more valuable than Americans?

I'll repeat an experience I had. I went to put a package in the mail, I got there 5 minutes before the Post Office opened. I was looking around waiting and all of the local signs were in Spanish. There was what appeared to be a homeless person with a shopping cart full of all of her possessions. I had a couple of 5's in my pocket so I went over to give them to her.

She was absolutely crying her heart out. She had just been evicted from her one room apartment so that the illegal owner could put an illegal family in there. To her she had no place to go and nowhere to turn. I was so heartbroken for her I cannot describe it. Jay chimed in the first time that "she has plenty of HHS to turn to." Tell that to a 70 year old obese black woman who has just been kicked out so that the owner could make more money.

I happen to feel people's pain because I was nearly in that position while we were young and before the RR was unionized. Five people living in a 600 sq ft house with coal fireplace for heating and coal stove for cooking. The coal was liberated from the hopper cars on the railroad.

Yesterday my wife had a program on TV called "Tiny House" and it was 600 sq feet for one man and his two boys weekending.


Tom you're not much older than I.
You do not remember railroads before unions.


Pffff. My sister was a non-union, licensed steam locomotive engineer! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_d2VwhnsC8 She even has a carousel pony named after her: https://bjwrr.org/carousel-horses/dorothy/ (they mispelled her last name).

She used to bring lumps of coal home to our 12 sf house, and we would eat it for dinner -- me and my 12 brothers and sisters. The house was so small that we had to alternate sleeping in the one bed. We were all homeless at some point during the night. Some nights I would just sleep in a rolled-up newspaper in a pit in the back yard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26ZDB9h7BLY


-- Jay Beattie.

On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 15:49:31 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Wednesday, April 24, 2019 at 12:22:03 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 9:48:39 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 8:48:08 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/22/2019 10:42 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 22:10:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/22/2019 8:13 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/22/2019 6:15 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 13:49:40 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 12:33:02 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 12:01:42 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Thursday, April 18, 2019 at 9:48:53 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
Some posters here have gone on and on about homeless people, and
specifically homeless people in Seattle.

Here are interesting details about one of them:
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ss-in-seattle/


--
- Frank Krygowski

This is pretty much the same in every single state controlled by
Democrats. It is a sickness that cannot be cured.

So the staggering number of homeless in Texas can be cured? Why is
homelessness so low in Bernie Sanders' home state of Vermont?
https://www.usich.gov/tools-for-action/map/#fn[]=1400&fn[]=2900&fn[]=6000&fn[]=9900&fn[]=13500



-- Jay Beattie.

Come on Jay, Vermont has a relatively tiny population and it is a
state that makes Washington state look like Hawaii. And yet Vermont
has about half the RATE of homelessness as Washington. Oregon with a
little better weather conditions than Washington has a little worse
homeless rate.

You can check out the weather in those areas - while Vermont has bad
weather in the winter, relatively New Hampshire has a long sea coast
heated by the Gulf Stream and the slightly better weather translates
into more homeless.

Err... New Hampshire's "long seacoast" is 18 miles long :-)
The average daily highs in that area are (average December, January
and February) 35 degrees (F) and nightly lows are 12 degrees (F).

It is strange, growing up in New Hampshire there just didn't seem to
have been any "homeless". There were "Hobo's", who were homeless, but
they migrated to more hospitable climes during the winters.


more homeless update:

https://700wlw.iheart.com/featured/s...-poop-problem/

To paraphrase Mark Twain (or perhaps someone else): Just like the
weather, everybody talks about the homeless problem but nobody does
anything about it.

Apparently the homeless have existed in the U.S., essentially since
the place was first settled and substantial numbers of the
"immigrants" were actually Vagabonds, an English term to describe
those without a job or place to live. According to:
http://www.earlyamericancrime.com/co...ges/overview-2

"From the time of the first settlers to the American Revolution, close
to three quarters of all immigrants to the thirteen American colonies
arrived on American shores without their freedom, coming over as
slaves, convicts, or indentured servants. Even during the seventeenth
century only 33 percent of immigrants to America were free"

Of course, once an indentured servant completed his indenture he might
be given land, there was plenty of it about, and with the ownership of
"property" gain the privilege of voting.

I suspect that the modern "homeless" may well be simply a part of the
urbanization of the country. When a large majority of the population
lived on farms there was always work to be had but when the big move
to the cities (where the money is) there were fewer unskilled jobs
available. Than came the decentralization of factories and cities like
Detroit almost literally died with the loss of work.

Now of course, with computerization there is even fewer jobs available
and more of them require specialized technical knowledge that just
isn't available to all and sundry. There are, for example, some 50,000
licensed taxi drivers in New York City. With the advent of driverless
vehicles some 50,000 might be out of a job. Is there any work
available for them?

I agree, that's probably one of the roots of the problem. And I don't
see it getting better.

Our economic system generates more profits to those who reduce expenses,
and employees are seen as expenses. In a three shift factory, one robot
can easily replace three workers, and probably more. It can often pay
for itself quite quickly even without the benefits of more consistent
operation, better quality control, etc.

But even the most charitable auto manufacturer (for a wildly theoretical
example) couldn't say "I'm not going to use robots. I'm going to
continue giving people jobs by doing things by hand." If the company did
that, it would soon go bankrupt.

The problem isn't just robots, though. It's all through commerce.
Grocery stores and hardware stores near me have more "self checkout"
stations than cashier stations. I no longer get to call a company and
have a receptionist direct my call; instead, I listen to a minute of
menu choices and try to navigate to my intended contact by pressing
buttons myself, or by shouting into their voice recognition system.

This trend even infects volunteer work. Our club newsletter used to be
done by a team of friends working at someone's kitchen table, doing
literal cut-and-pasting. (The newsletter won a national award back in
those days.) Now it can be done only by the few club members with
Desktop Publishing experience.

But take heart. The rich are getting richer at an ever faster pace, so
all is not lost. :-/

We have historically low unemployment and tying homelessness to the non-availability of jobs is difficult. A more serious problem is that existing jobs do not pay enough to keep up with escalating housing prices. You have to wonder, however, how many homeless are economically displaced versus drug addled or insane. Very few of the homeless I see are simply down on their luck and unable to find a cheap apartment. It's not Hooverville out there -- it looks more like a scene out of the Walking Dead. I have no idea what one does for those people within the confines of modern morality.

-- Jay Beattie.

Well, I agree with you but I see several illegal families to a home. This allows them to pay a great deal more for housing than Americans who will not share housing as easily.

Here's he problem: the jobs that a large number of illegals are capable of doing are much better done with automation. If we did not have this cheap labor force we would convert assembly lines etc. to automation.



Really? Please point me to the automatic MACHINE that picks fruit trees such as
orange, apple, grape vines. Or tomatoes. California and Florida and
many fruit/vegetable states are heavily dependent on immigrants (legal
or illegal) to carry on their economy. And don't forget the
groundskeepers and cleaning immigrants working at Trumps's Florida
golf course. Do machines automatically cut grass, rake leaves, clean
bathrooms, make beds? Please point them out.

Nope, it doesn't work that way. When labor prices go up so do prices.
People don't stop eating beans just because a can costs more.
A dozen eggs was 79 cents in New Jersey in 1956. A loaf of bread was
12 cents in Florida in 1952. Have people stopped eating eggs and
bread?

As for automatic fruit picking I did see
https://www.fastcompany.com/40473583...-its-robo-hand
--
cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 20:54:26 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

" writes:

On Wednesday, April 24, 2019 at 12:14:33 PM UTC-5, wrote:

But it is NOTHING like the west coast. San Francisco is the Homeless
city by the bay and LA is incredible. When you can drive for 3 miles
on main streets with each side of the street lined with homeless
tent shelters it makes you want to cry. The real basis for all of
this is illegal immigration.


Did a simple Google search on the makeup of the homeless population.
My search results said 49% were WHITE. I think we can safely say
whites/Caucasians are not illegal immigrants. My results also said

How the hell can we say that? I have been personally acquainted with an
English illegal immigrant and I can assure you she was white. Nice
girl, overstayed her student visa by quite a few years. Also knew a
family of Moldovans that would have been illegal immigrants if their
paperwork had not come through -- definitively caucasian.

Well, that is two out of a three mile long tent city :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Wednesday, April 24, 2019 at 7:54:30 PM UTC-5, Radey Shouman wrote:
" writes:

Did a simple Google search on the makeup of the homeless population.
My search results said 49% were WHITE. I think we can safely say
whites/Caucasians are not illegal immigrants. My results also said

How the hell can we say that? I have been personally acquainted with an
English illegal immigrant and I can assure you she was white. Nice
girl, overstayed her student visa by quite a few years. Also knew a
family of Moldovans that would have been illegal immigrants if their
paperwork had not come through -- definitively caucasian.


But they are WHITE illegal immigrants. They don't count of course. Haven't you heard Trump yipping and yapping endlessly about all the illegals down in Texas coming from Mexico? Actually Guatemala, Venezuela, Honduras, etc.. But they are all Mexicans of course. Listen to every news story about immigrants. They ALWAYS talk about the Mexican illegal immigrants. Every other day there is a story about some white woman in a fast food restaurant screaming at a worker to go home and get out of the country. Maybe these workers are immigrants, legal or illegal, or are born in America citizens. But they ain't white. Therefore they are immigrants.

On 4/25/2019 11:40 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 24, 2019 at 7:54:30 PM UTC-5, Radey Shouman wrote:
" writes:

Did a simple Google search on the makeup of the homeless population.
My search results said 49% were WHITE. I think we can safely say
whites/Caucasians are not illegal immigrants. My results also said

How the hell can we say that? I have been personally acquainted with an
English illegal immigrant and I can assure you she was white. Nice
girl, overstayed her student visa by quite a few years. Also knew a
family of Moldovans that would have been illegal immigrants if their
paperwork had not come through -- definitively caucasian.


But they are WHITE illegal immigrants. They don't count of course. Haven't you heard Trump yipping and yapping endlessly about all the illegals down in Texas coming from Mexico? Actually Guatemala, Venezuela, Honduras, etc. But they are all Mexicans of course. Listen to every news story about immigrants. They ALWAYS talk about the Mexican illegal immigrants. Every other day there is a story about some white woman in a fast food restaurant screaming at a worker to go home and get out of the country. Maybe these workers are immigrants, legal or illegal, or are born in America citizens. But they ain't white. Therefore they are immigrants.


We're a very large country - we have one of everything.

Illegals in Texas may well likely be Mexican or Guatemalan
but in Dearborn they're Arabs, In Brighton Russians, in many
cities Chinese and so on.

I've known (and employed) illegal French Russian and Cuban.
As in any other sphere of humans, there's a lot of
individual variance (of my two Cubans, one is still in
prison, one is a professor of Chemistry).


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971