Electric Bikes

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 12:54:56 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/3/2021 11:11 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 3:25:06 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

One acquaintance of mine has an all-electric car and a very large solar
array on his house. His system is set up to first recharge the car. When
the car is topped up, the system sends electricity back to the power
company, reducing his bill. He's very happy with it.

Until the solar cells have to be replaced. Then the hammer falls. When I attended a solar fair the salesmen were busy telling everyone that the cells lasted for 20 years. I went back and talked to the engineer who worked at that company. He said, 5 years until the output drops 50%, another 5 years for another 50% and by 15 years the output was so low that you weren't really getting any power out of them.
Bull****. Your memory (or imagination) is faulty yet again.

http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy12osti/51664.pdf

Typical degradation is less than one percent per year. 25 year
warranties are quite common, and they don't shut off at 25 years, they
just produce less electricity.

See also
https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/ho...gradation-rate

or many other sources.

--
- Frank Krygowski
Frank, when you're making your stupid comments it might be wise to actually know what you're talking about. Tell us what American company is presently making solar panels and what type they are?

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 5:03:28 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 12:41:43 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman
wrote:

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 8:18:53 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 10:22:03 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Windmills almost never make their own costs back. But governments can pretend otherwise and even issue reports saying they are effective and efficient when they are not.

But trust your Democrat government. They are doing so well in the cities that you can tell they really know what they are doing.
https://www.holland.com/global/touri...20once%20again.

Lou is from the Netherlands. Fool! Compared to your knowledge. Those foolish Dutch have been using windmills for hundreds of years to pump water out of their below sea level ground to make it livable and arable. I bet it cost those Dutch several hundred Guilders to build windmills back in the 1700s. Obvious waste of money according to you. Dutch government was probably the precursor to the Democratic party here in the US for wasting so much money so foolishly. Helping and improving your country and making people's lives better! Laughable.


According do Tom's standards we are all communists here. All the mandatory insurances for unemployment, healthcare, pension, payed sick leave for two years, disability insurance, payed maternity leave for at least 16 weeks..... Democrats in the US? Sissies.
I'm close to retirement now and I (almost) never claimed anything except for my coming pension. All those payed premiums down the drain but I'm happy I never got seriously sick, unemployed, disabled or pregnant.

Lou
Socialists, not communists :-) There is a difference :-0

No there isn't. Another of those socialist lies you think you can spread around and people won't know better. The only reason they called is "communist" is because there was already another socialist party on the ballot so they changed their title to communist to differentiate themselves from the other.

On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 06:30:51 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

Frank, when you're making your stupid comments it might be wise to actually know what you're talking about. Tell us what American company is presently making solar panels and what type they are?

U.S. solar panel manufacturers: a list of American-made solar panels
https://news.energysage.com/u-s-solar-panel-manufacturers-list-american-made-solar-panels/

--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 6/4/2021 9:30 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 12:54:56 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/3/2021 11:11 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 3:25:06 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

One acquaintance of mine has an all-electric car and a very large solar
array on his house. His system is set up to first recharge the car. When
the car is topped up, the system sends electricity back to the power
company, reducing his bill. He's very happy with it.

Until the solar cells have to be replaced. Then the hammer falls. When I attended a solar fair the salesmen were busy telling everyone that the cells lasted for 20 years. I went back and talked to the engineer who worked at that company. He said, 5 years until the output drops 50%, another 5 years for another 50% and by 15 years the output was so low that you weren't really getting any power out of them.
Bull****. Your memory (or imagination) is faulty yet again.

http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy12osti/51664.pdf

Typical degradation is less than one percent per year. 25 year
warranties are quite common, and they don't shut off at 25 years, they
just produce less electricity.

See also
https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/ho...gradation-rate

or many other sources.

--
- Frank Krygowski
Frank, when you're making your stupid comments it might be wise to actually know what you're talking about. Tell us what American company is presently making solar panels and what type they are?

Tom, that was a particularly pitiful attempt at a deflection.

You were flat out wrong in what you posted. You probably looked around
and failed to find data that would defend your nonsense. So you insult
and deflect as usual.

Why can you never bother to look for data before posting your brain's
excrement? And why can you never admit you're wrong?


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 6/3/2021 9:34 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 19:23:25 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/3/2021 7:03 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 12:41:43 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman
wrote:

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 8:18:53 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 10:22:03 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Windmills almost never make their own costs back. But governments can pretend otherwise and even issue reports saying they are effective and efficient when they are not.

But trust your Democrat government. They are doing so well in the cities that you can tell they really know what they are doing.
https://www.holland.com/global/touri...20once%20again.

Lou is from the Netherlands. Fool! Compared to your knowledge. Those foolish Dutch have been using windmills for hundreds of years to pump water out of their below sea level ground to make it livable and arable. I bet it cost those Dutch several hundred Guilders to build windmills back in the 1700s. Obvious waste of money according to you. Dutch government was probably the precursor to the Democratic party here in the US for wasting so much money so foolishly. Helping and improving your country and making people's lives better! Laughable.


According do Tom's standards we are all communists here. All the mandatory insurances for unemployment, healthcare, pension, payed sick leave for two years, disability insurance, payed maternity leave for at least 16 weeks.... Democrats in the US? Sissies.
I'm close to retirement now and I (almost) never claimed anything except for my coming pension. All those payed premiums down the drain but I'm happy I never got seriously sick, unemployed, disabled or pregnant.

Lou

Socialists, not communists :-) There is a difference :-0


Enlighten us.

Marx used the terms mostly interchangeably (except in a few
instances).

True, in fact it almost seems like Marx didn't know what he was
talking about from time to time :-) But the generally modern
definition is that in a Communist system the Government owns and
operates all economic resources, while in a modern Socialist, commonly
referred to as "Social Democracy systems", economic resources may be
privately owned and operated, but of course, taxed by the government.
which in turn supports the people.

I'll add that it's silly to hark back to mid-19th century writings to
argue definitions of a word.

The meaning of words changes over time. If you want to argue the
meanings of "socialism" vs. "communism" it's much more logical to use
their currently accepted definitions.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 7:44:17 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 06:30:51 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

Frank, when you're making your stupid comments it might be wise to actually know what you're talking about. Tell us what American company is presently making solar panels and what type they are?
U.S. solar panel manufacturers: a list of American-made solar panels
https://news.energysage.com/u-s-solar-panel-manufacturers-list-american-made-solar-panels/

--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
So what you're saying is that because of Trump we have American solar panel manufacturers. Thanks for making that plain.

On 6/4/2021 10:48 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/3/2021 9:34 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 19:23:25 -0500, AMuzi
wrote:

On 6/3/2021 7:03 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 12:41:43 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman
wrote:

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 8:18:53 PM UTC+2,
wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 10:22:03 AM UTC-5,
wrote:
Windmills almost never make their own costs back. But
governments can pretend otherwise and even issue
reports saying they are effective and efficient when
they are not.

But trust your Democrat government. They are doing so
well in the cities that you can tell they really know
what they are doing.
https://www.holland.com/global/touri...20once%20again.


Lou is from the Netherlands. Fool! Compared to your
knowledge. Those foolish Dutch have been using
windmills for hundreds of years to pump water out of
their below sea level ground to make it livable and
arable. I bet it cost those Dutch several hundred
Guilders to build windmills back in the 1700s. Obvious
waste of money according to you. Dutch government was
probably the precursor to the Democratic party here in
the US for wasting so much money so foolishly. Helping
and improving your country and making people's lives
better! Laughable.


According do Tom's standards we are all communists
here. All the mandatory insurances for unemployment,
healthcare, pension, payed sick leave for two years,
disability insurance, payed maternity leave for at
least 16 weeks.... Democrats in the US? Sissies.
I'm close to retirement now and I (almost) never
claimed anything except for my coming pension. All
those payed premiums down the drain but I'm happy I
never got seriously sick, unemployed, disabled or
pregnant.

Lou

Socialists, not communists :-) There is a difference :-0


Enlighten us.

Marx used the terms mostly interchangeably (except in a few
instances).

True, in fact it almost seems like Marx didn't know what
he was
talking about from time to time :-) But the generally modern
definition is that in a Communist system the Government
owns and
operates all economic resources, while in a modern
Socialist, commonly
referred to as "Social Democracy systems", economic
resources may be
privately owned and operated, but of course, taxed by the
government.
which in turn supports the people.

I'll add that it's silly to hark back to mid-19th century
writings to argue definitions of a word.

The meaning of words changes over time. If you want to argue
the meanings of "socialism" vs. "communism" it's much more
logical to use their currently accepted definitions.



The communists hijacked the term 'liberal' (reversing its
meaning), then became 'progressives' (which came to mean
anti progress) and now 'socialists' none of which makes them
other than communist.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 8:41:56 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/4/2021 9:30 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 12:54:56 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/3/2021 11:11 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 3:25:06 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

One acquaintance of mine has an all-electric car and a very large solar
array on his house. His system is set up to first recharge the car. When
the car is topped up, the system sends electricity back to the power
company, reducing his bill. He's very happy with it.

Until the solar cells have to be replaced. Then the hammer falls. When I attended a solar fair the salesmen were busy telling everyone that the cells lasted for 20 years. I went back and talked to the engineer who worked at that company. He said, 5 years until the output drops 50%, another 5 years for another 50% and by 15 years the output was so low that you weren't really getting any power out of them.
Bull****. Your memory (or imagination) is faulty yet again.

http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy12osti/51664.pdf

Typical degradation is less than one percent per year. 25 year
warranties are quite common, and they don't shut off at 25 years, they
just produce less electricity.

See also
https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/ho...gradation-rate

or many other sources.

--
- Frank Krygowski
Frank, when you're making your stupid comments it might be wise to actually know what you're talking about. Tell us what American company is presently making solar panels and what type they are?
Tom, that was a particularly pitiful attempt at a deflection.

You were flat out wrong in what you posted. You probably looked around
and failed to find data that would defend your nonsense. So you insult
and deflect as usual.

Why can you never bother to look for data before posting your brain's
excrement? And why can you never admit you're wrong?

When you discount the numbers of panels that break from thermal shifts and only count those that remain operational you are still attempting to use crystal Si panels that are far more efficient and reliable (used on the space program and things like the Mars rover) and the far shorter time of the silicon layered panels that are simply lying about their long term reduction in output. We've seen this again and again such at the windmill claim that they are 70% efficient when the Mechanical portion can only be 59% efficient and then conversion of mechanical energy to electricity is only 70% of so efficient under the best of conditions. You're supposedly a mechanical engineer so what is the Betz law?

Rainwater contains a lot of alkali and this strongly depreciates the efficiency of solar cells. The closer to cities the more alkali and the faster the loss of efficiency.

Your finding some moronic claims otherwise to promote a system that has shown itself to be impractical in virtually every case proves that just like your other comments, you will do absolutely anything to claim that I am wrong.

My actually talking to the engineers that worked on these things means nothing to you. You are going to quote an environmentalist article with bull**** falling off of it all over.

Maybe you'd like to explain why Holland and Belgium are excited to get access to Russian oil?

On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 8:48:28 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/3/2021 9:34 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 19:23:25 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/3/2021 7:03 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 12:41:43 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman
wrote:

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 8:18:53 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 10:22:03 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Windmills almost never make their own costs back. But governments can pretend otherwise and even issue reports saying they are effective and efficient when they are not.

But trust your Democrat government. They are doing so well in the cities that you can tell they really know what they are doing.
https://www.holland.com/global/touri...20once%20again.

Lou is from the Netherlands. Fool! Compared to your knowledge. Those foolish Dutch have been using windmills for hundreds of years to pump water out of their below sea level ground to make it livable and arable. I bet it cost those Dutch several hundred Guilders to build windmills back in the 1700s. Obvious waste of money according to you. Dutch government was probably the precursor to the Democratic party here in the US for wasting so much money so foolishly. Helping and improving your country and making people's lives better! Laughable.


According do Tom's standards we are all communists here. All the mandatory insurances for unemployment, healthcare, pension, payed sick leave for two years, disability insurance, payed maternity leave for at least 16 weeks.... Democrats in the US? Sissies.
I'm close to retirement now and I (almost) never claimed anything except for my coming pension. All those payed premiums down the drain but I'm happy I never got seriously sick, unemployed, disabled or pregnant.

Lou

Socialists, not communists :-) There is a difference :-0


Enlighten us.

Marx used the terms mostly interchangeably (except in a few
instances).

True, in fact it almost seems like Marx didn't know what he was
talking about from time to time :-) But the generally modern
definition is that in a Communist system the Government owns and
operates all economic resources, while in a modern Socialist, commonly
referred to as "Social Democracy systems", economic resources may be
privately owned and operated, but of course, taxed by the government.
which in turn supports the people.
I'll add that it's silly to hark back to mid-19th century writings to
argue definitions of a word.

The meaning of words changes over time. If you want to argue the
meanings of "socialism" vs. "communism" it's much more logical to use
their currently accepted definitions.

What you mean is that you think that people should accept your definitions.

On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 9:18:45 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/4/2021 10:48 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/3/2021 9:34 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 19:23:25 -0500, AMuzi
wrote:

On 6/3/2021 7:03 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 12:41:43 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman
wrote:

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 8:18:53 PM UTC+2,
wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 10:22:03 AM UTC-5,
wrote:
Windmills almost never make their own costs back. But
governments can pretend otherwise and even issue
reports saying they are effective and efficient when
they are not.

But trust your Democrat government. They are doing so
well in the cities that you can tell they really know
what they are doing.
https://www.holland.com/global/touri...20once%20again.


Lou is from the Netherlands. Fool! Compared to your
knowledge. Those foolish Dutch have been using
windmills for hundreds of years to pump water out of
their below sea level ground to make it livable and
arable. I bet it cost those Dutch several hundred
Guilders to build windmills back in the 1700s. Obvious
waste of money according to you. Dutch government was
probably the precursor to the Democratic party here in
the US for wasting so much money so foolishly. Helping
and improving your country and making people's lives
better! Laughable.


According do Tom's standards we are all communists
here. All the mandatory insurances for unemployment,
healthcare, pension, payed sick leave for two years,
disability insurance, payed maternity leave for at
least 16 weeks.... Democrats in the US? Sissies.
I'm close to retirement now and I (almost) never
claimed anything except for my coming pension. All
those payed premiums down the drain but I'm happy I
never got seriously sick, unemployed, disabled or
pregnant.

Lou

Socialists, not communists :-) There is a difference :-0


Enlighten us.

Marx used the terms mostly interchangeably (except in a few
instances).

True, in fact it almost seems like Marx didn't know what
he was
talking about from time to time :-) But the generally modern
definition is that in a Communist system the Government
owns and
operates all economic resources, while in a modern
Socialist, commonly
referred to as "Social Democracy systems", economic
resources may be
privately owned and operated, but of course, taxed by the
government.
which in turn supports the people.

I'll add that it's silly to hark back to mid-19th century
writings to argue definitions of a word.

The meaning of words changes over time. If you want to argue
the meanings of "socialism" vs. "communism" it's much more
logical to use their currently accepted definitions.


The communists hijacked the term 'liberal' (reversing its
meaning), then became 'progressives' (which came to mean
anti progress) and now 'socialists' none of which makes them
other than communist.

Socialism all works the same way. First they tell you that it is unfair for some to be rich while the majority are not. Then in order to make all equal (like in Cuba, right?) they use force at gunpoint to take the money you work for at ALL levels and not at the top 1% which they always present as those who are unfair. Then those who run the communist government distribute it in the manner that they tell you is fair, always living FAR better than the peons.