The Effects of Mountain Biking on Wildlife and People -- WhyOff-Road Bicycling Should be Prohibited

Being an educated person I presume that you are fluent in the ways
of forum etiquette and as such know that spamming is poor form on
any forum.


Being an educated person, you should know that this is not a "forum", it's
a
"newsgroup". Further, he is not spamming (has nothing to sell), he is
just
being a PITA.


It's just ****ing rude. This is not a newsgroup to discuss whether or not
mountain biking is detrimental to the environment. This is where people who
have made the decision to mountain bike come to talk about the sport they
love. I don't plan on walking into Mike Vandeman's living room, where he may
be talking with his friends (?!) about insert Vandeman hobby here and
telling him that he's ****ed up for doing it. It just wouldn't be my place.

Regardless, as someone else mentioned, I think it obvious that a dialogue
would be infinitely more constructive.

cc says:

It's just ****ing rude.

And this is an "alt" group. Live with it.

This is where people who
have made the decision to mountain bike come to talk about the sport they
love.

Which makes it a natural place for the anit-MTB twit to post. Thaink about
it....

dialogue

BWAHAHAHAHA - go for it, but don't hold your breath..

Steve

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 10:50:19 -0700, "cc" wrote:

..
.. Being an educated person I presume that you are fluent in the ways
.. of forum etiquette and as such know that spamming is poor form on
.. any forum.
..
..
.. Being an educated person, you should know that this is not a "forum", it's
..a
.. "newsgroup". Further, he is not spamming (has nothing to sell), he is
..just
.. being a PITA.
..
..
..It's just ****ing rude. This is not a newsgroup to discuss whether or not
..mountain biking is detrimental to the environment.

alt.mountain-bike: there's no indication of that, nor is there a FAQ dictating
that. You are LYING, as usual. This newsgroup is for discussing mountain biking.
Period. You are all wet.

This is where people who
..have made the decision to mountain bike come to talk about the sport they
..love. I don't plan on walking into Mike Vandeman's living room, where he may
..be talking with his friends (?!) about insert Vandeman hobby here and
..telling him that he's ****ed up for doing it. It just wouldn't be my place.
..
..Regardless, as someone else mentioned, I think it obvious that a dialogue
..would be infinitely more constructive.
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On 23 Jun 2004 18:06:16 GMT, ospam (Stephen Baker) wrote:

..cc says:
..
..It's just ****ing rude.
..
..And this is an "alt" group. Live with it.
..
..This is where people who
..have made the decision to mountain bike come to talk about the sport they
..love.
..
..Which makes it a natural place for the anit-MTB twit to post. Thaink about
..it....

God, you guys are SLOW!

..dialogue
..
..BWAHAHAHAHA - go for it, but don't hold your breath..
..
..Steve

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Mike Vandeman wrote:

God, you guys are SLOW!

We're not slow. We like to travel as fast as possible - it stops us from
taking in the countryside properly and means we don't have to react to
flora and fauna that get in our way.

Mike.

It's rather disappointing the someone with a PhD would have nothing better
to do than stir up trouble in the alt.mountain-bike newsgroup. Considering
you are university educated, you would think that you would understand the
consept of tact. Instead of simply throwing a clump of mud in everyone face
and seeing what they do about it, why didn't you try to stimulate some
dialog on this issue? Instead you simply attack everyone with one broad
sweep. You undermined your own credibility.

Likely everyone will retaliate with defensive attacks and nothing will be
accomplished. Obviously, you are more interested in our reaction than the
actual topic you (apparently) are presenting.

None the less, this is my viewpoint on the matter. Mountain bikers are
law-abiding, mostly conscious people. For myself, at least, I bike only in
areas where mountain biking is clearly allowed. I have never once gone "Off
Roading" in National/Provincial (State) parks. I try to stay on the trail
the best I can, and am always concious of pedestrians on the trail. Anyone
that steps beyond these bounds probably doesn't represent the majority of
mountain bikers.

That being said, you should be approaching the people who regulate access to
natural places, not the people who use these natural areas. What you appear
to be doing is trying to get people to self-monitor their actions, which
they are not equipped to do. I am a mountain biker who enjoys nature, I am
not education in nature presevation and/or conservation. I depend on the
designate authorities to tell me where I should and should not mountain
bike. Since I don't study soil erosion, animal habitats, or plant foliage,
I cannot tell if I am having an overly harmful effect on nature. I do not
understand the total implication of my actions, hence I depend on those
empowered to do so.

If you feel that there are too many people in too many natural places, I
suggest you approach the parks service, or whoever is in a position of
authority, and have them restrict access to natural places. Don't go and
flame the people using those natural places.

Note: If you wanted to prevent accidents on the highway because you felt
that the posted speed limits were too high, you wouldn't go an attack the
people who were driving within those speed limits. No, you would approach
the DOT and ask them to reconsider the legal posted limits, and possibly
lowering that limit.

Throwing mud in here will get you nowhere, and as I stated before, it'll
only make you look bad.

Alpha Male



"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 10:50:19 -0700, "cc" wrote:

.
. Being an educated person I presume that you are fluent in the ways
. of forum etiquette and as such know that spamming is poor form on
. any forum.
.
.
. Being an educated person, you should know that this is not a "forum",
it's
.a
. "newsgroup". Further, he is not spamming (has nothing to sell), he is
.just
. being a PITA.
.
.
.It's just ****ing rude. This is not a newsgroup to discuss whether or not
.mountain biking is detrimental to the environment.

alt.mountain-bike: there's no indication of that, nor is there a FAQ
dictating
that. You are LYING, as usual. This newsgroup is for discussing mountain
biking.
Period. You are all wet.

This is where people who
.have made the decision to mountain bike come to talk about the sport they
.love. I don't plan on walking into Mike Vandeman's living room, where he
may
.be talking with his friends (?!) about insert Vandeman hobby here and
.telling him that he's ****ed up for doing it. It just wouldn't be my
place.
.
.Regardless, as someone else mentioned, I think it obvious that a dialogue
.would be infinitely more constructive.
.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Stephen Baker wrote:
Joz says:
Being an educated person I presume that you are fluent in the ways
of forum etiquette and as such know that spamming is poor form on
any forum.

Being an educated person, you should know that this is not a "forum",
it's a "newsgroup". Further, he is not spamming (has nothing to sell),
he is just being a PITA.
Steve "Netiquette is where it's at..."



Steve, spamming is not limited to commerce. Mr. Vandeman relentlessly
posts and reposts a template form that he has created. It's on this
newsgroup in dozens of places. That is spamming.

Call it a forum or newsgroup, it doesn't matter as it pertains to spam.



--

Joz wrote:

Steve, spamming is not limited to commerce.

Although there's no official definition of spam, the generally held
conception is that it is unsolicited posts / mails offering products or
services.

Mr. Vandeman relentlessly posts and reposts a template form that he has
created. It's on this newsgroup in dozens of places. That is spamming.

No it's not.

Although I don't agree with Mike's style or many of his opinions, I still
believe he has every right to post here.

Bomba wrote:
Although I don't agree with Mike's style or many of his opinions, I
still believe he has every right to post here.



Ettiquette and 'Rights' are not synonyms.

Assuming this is not a privately owned newsgroup then he certainly has
the right to post here, but that doesn't mean he isn't showing poor form
by spamming the same mantra over and over again every day.



--

Alpha Male wrote (top-posted, of course):

Mike. {good place for a huge snip if ever there was one}

None the less, this is my viewpoint on the matter. Mountain bikers
are law-abiding, mostly conscious people.

Well sure, maybe at the START of the ride.

Bill "have known a few..." S.