The Effects of Mountain Biking on Wildlife and People -- WhyOff-Road Bicycling Should be Prohibited

Joz wrote:

Steve, spamming is not limited to commerce. Mr. Vandeman relentlessly
posts and reposts a template form that he has created. It's on this
newsgroup in dozens of places. That is spamming.

No, it's TROLLING.

Bill "not that there's anything /right/ with that" S.

S O R N I wrote:
No, it's TROLLING.
Bill "not that there's anything /right/ with that" S.



If his only interest is to incite the riding community (which is very
well may be), then yes it is also trolling, but this is digressing into
a debate on semantics.

I think that no matter how broad or narrow a definition you apply to
'spamming' or 'trolling' we can agree that it is poor form.



--

Mike Vandeman wrote:
The Effects of Mountain Biking on Wildlife and People -- Why Off-Road
Bicycling Should be Prohibited Michael J. Vandeman, Ph.D. May 31, 1997
Mountain biking is a relatively new sport. According to a mountain
biking (MTB) web page (http://www.mtb-/http://www.mtb- bike.com),
"The commercial Mountain Bike evolution didn't start until 1974 and
its first production bikes didn't appear in stores until about 10
years later". (Lower gearing, fat, knobby tires, sturdier
construction, but particularly the sealed bearing -- which could be
ridden in dirt without getting destroyed -- are what made
"mountain" (off- road) bicycling possible.) Partly for this reason,
and partly because the MTB is, from one point of view, just a
special case of an ORV (off-road vehicle), environmentalists and
scientists have been slow to study and recognize the special threat
that the mountain bike represents to wildlife. Although there are
many studies of ORVs, I am not aware of any solid scientific
studies specifically on MTBs and their effects on wildlife.
To most environmentalists, bicycles have always been the epitome
of good. We are so used to comparing bikes to cars, that it
never occurred to us that the bicycle would be ever used for
anything bad. Indeed, replacing motor vehicles with bicycles
deserves our adoration. But anything can be used for good or
evil, and using bikes to expand human domination of wildlife
habitat is clearly harmful.
Human beings think they own every square inch of the Earth, and
that they therefore have the right to do what they want with
it. This is, of course, absurd. It is also the reason that we are losing
species at an unforgivable rate: we have crowded wildlife out of its
habitat. Even in our parks, where we have vowed to protect wildlife,
it is not protected from hikers, equestrians, park "managers",
firefighters, mountain bikers, airplanes, helicopters, cars, roads,
concessionaires, or biologists. Thus, the primary reason that
mountain bikes are harmful to wildlife is that they, like other
technological aids (cars, skis, rafts, rock- climbing equipment,
etc.), make it much easier for people to get into wildlife habitat.
(Sadly, most people have forgotten that the only thing
that
makes parks worth visiting is the wildlife that live
the it is
_____
precisely the wildlife (and paucity of humans) that make a park a
__________________________________________________ _____-
__________
park. Without wildlife (i.e., all nonhuman, nondomesticated species
____
-- plants as well as animals), the parks would be boring piles of
bare rock.)
Biology
_______
First and most obvious, mountain bikes kill organisms that live on
and under the soil: "When it comes to pure recreational
destructiveness, ... off-road vehicles (ORVs) far surpass
powerboats. ... It is a rare environment indeed where a vehicle can
be taken off- road without damage. ... Standard ORVs with their
knobby tires are almost ideal devices for smashing plant life and
destroying soil. Even driven with extreme care, a dirt bike will
degrade about an acre of land in a twenty-mile drive. ... Not only
do the ORVs exterminate animals by exterminating plants, they
attack them directly as well. Individual animals on the surface and
in shallow burrows ... are crushed. ... One great problem with ORVs
_________________-
__________
is that they supply easy access to wilderness areas for
__________________________________________________ _____
unsupervised people who have ... no conception of the damage they
__________________________________________________ _____-
__________
are doing" (Ehrlich and Ehrlich, pp.169-171; emphasis added).
_________
(Although mountain bikes were hardly known when this was written, it is
obvious that the same applies to them.)
Recently, one of the largest Alameda whipsnakes (a California
threatened species) ever found was killed by a mountain biker in
Black Diamond Mines Regional Preserve near here. Others have been
killed on other East Bay regional parks. Kathryn Phillips in
Tracking the Vanishing Frogs described how ORVs crossing creeks
____________________________
crush toads and their eggs (both buried in the sand). Bikes are
generally ridden too fast to avoid killing small animals. Obviously, the
animals didn't evolve in the presence of mountain bikes, and can't be
expected to deal very effectively with such quiet, fast-moving objects.
Even hikers can kill small animals, if they aren't careful. The one time
I went to look for an Alameda whipsnake, I almost stepped on one, which
was lying in grass growing in the trail, and didn't move until I had
almost stepped on
iu.
Soils are extremely complex communities of living organisms. They
sometimes are very fragile and once destroyed take decades to be
recreated (e.g. desert cryptogamic soil). Soil destruction is
hastened by acceleration (braking, speeding up, climbing, and
turning, which apply horizontal forces to the soil), by tire lugs,
which break the surface, and by water, which softens the soil and
makes it easier to demolish.
In the Golden Gate National Recreation Area (GGNRA), "park
officials noted serious erosion problems on certain steep narrow
trails and determined that restricting bicycle use would slow such
erosion. [They] noted that on narrow trails bicyclists passing
other users would either leave the trail or force the other users
off the trail to the detriment of off-trail vegetation and
wildlife. ... Downhill bicycle travel on steep slopes is usually
accompanied by braking and often by skidding which tends to push
dislodged surface gravels into ditches, water bars, and drains.
Heavy bicycle use on steep trails usually requires that these
ditches, water bars, and drains be cleared more frequently than
those used by hikers and equestrians only. ... Park staff and
visitors reported that bicyclists on these ... trails often skidded
to control their speed, slid off of trails on sharp turns, or cut
across off-trail areas at certain 'switch-backs'" (Bicycle Trails
Council of Marin v. Bruce Babbitt).
Mud containing seeds and spores sticks to bike tires, thereby often
carrying species of plants into areas where they had not existed
(becoming "exotics"). This is worsened by the fact that bicycles
travel long distances, and are often carried to distant locations
(sometimes even foreign countries) by motor vehicle. It is well
known that such exotic species can cause havoc when introduced into
new habitats.
Most of us were raised to believe that "non- consumptive"
recreation is harmless to wildlife. We are taught to enjoy
ourselves in nature, guilt-free, as long as we don't directly harm
wildlife. However, recent research, and the huge scale of current
recreation activities, have discredited this idea. "Traditionally,
observing, feeding, and photographing wildlife were considered to
be 'nonconsumptive' activities because removal of animals from
their natural habitats did not occur.... nonconsumptive wildlife
recreation was considered relatively benign in terms of its effects
on wildlife; today, however, there is a growing recognition that
wildlife-viewing recreation can have serious negative impacts on
wildlife" (Knight & Gutzwiller, p.257).
In other words, the mere presence of people is often harmful
________
to wildlife, and the more, the worse. "The notion that recreation has
no environmental impacts is no longer tenable. Recreationists often
degrade the land, water, and wildlife resources that support
their activities by simplifying plant communities, increasing animal
mortality, displacing and disturbing wildlife, and distributing
refuse" (ibid, p.3) "Recreational disturbance has traditionally been
viewed as most detrimental to wildlife during the breeding season.
Recently, it has become apparent that disturbance outside of the
animal's breeding season may have equally severe effects" (p.73)
"People have an impact on wildlife habitat and all that depends on it,
no matter what the activity"
(p.157); "Perhaps the major way that people have influenced wildlife
populations is through encroachment into wildlife areas"
(p.158). "Outdoor recreation has been recognized as an important factor
that can reduce biosphere sustainability.... Indeed,
recreational activities, including many that may seem innocuous,
can alter vertebrate behaviour, reproduction, distributions, and
habitats" (p.169).
Knight & Gutzwiller's book contains numerous specific examples of
how these negative effects are created. We may not know what the
organisms are thinking, but the effect is that they die, are forced
to expend extra energy that may be in short supply, become more
susceptible to predation, or are forced to move to less suitable
habitat, losing access to preferred foods, mates, nesting sites,
etc. Since most of us live safely in the midst of plenty, it is
hard for us to understand wildlife's predicament. We are flexible
enough to survive almost anywhere; they are not. Often they have no
other place to live. None of the existing "studies" on mountain
biking evaluate its effects on wildlife. They are usually concerned
only with visible effects on the trail. In Tilden Regional Park,
there are three separate, heavily used mountain biking trails
through the middle of supposedly protected Alameda whipsnake
habitat areas!
"Displaced animals are forced out of familiar habitat and must then
survive and reproduce in areas where they are not familiar with the
locations of food, shelter, and other vital resources.... Hammitt
and Cole ... ranked displacement as being more detrimental to
wildlife than harassment or recreation-induced habitat changes....
Densities ... of 13 breeding bird species were negatively
associated with the intensity of recreation activity by park
visitors, primarily pedestrians and cyclists" (ibid, pp.173-
4); "off-road vehicles can collapse burrows of desert mammals and
reptiles" (p.176).
Sociology
_________
Hikers, especially the elderly, have been abandoning their favorite
trails, due to bikers that scare them, hit them, harass them, and
destroy the serenity of the parks. Parks are supposed to be a
refuge from the crush of humanity and the noise, danger, and
artificiality of urban areas. Why bring to our parks the very
_____________________________-
__
things that most people go there to escape?! There is absolutely
____________________________________________
nothing wrong with bicycling, in its proper setting (on a road). It is a
wonderfully healthful activity. But wildlife is already in
_______
danger due to loss of habitat (worldwide, one quarter of all animals are
threatend with extinction, according to the IUCN (International Union
for the Conservation of Nature and Natural Resources)). It can't afford
to lose any more. And people have very similar needs for being in
nature. Our elderly are like wildlife, in that they have nowhere else to
go for the experience of nature that they are accustomed to.
By definition, hiking trails are the minimum size necessary for a
person to hike (approx. 18 inches wide), since they are supposed to
have a minimal impact on the environment. They aren't wide enough
for a bicyclist to safely pass a hiker or another bicyclist. Mixing
bikers and hikers is dangerous for both. In fact,
mountain biking is also dangerous for lone riders, since hiking trails
don't follow a predictable pattern and have very short sight distances
(the distance that one can see ahead on the trail). Emergency room
doctors report that a large percentage of mountain bikers incur serious
accidents.
"The record includes hundreds of letters from park users recounting
stories of collisions or near misses with speeding or reckless
bicyclists on all kinds of trails but particularly on steep and
narrow trails. Hikers and bird watchers repeatedly told how they
have been forced off of trails by speeding bicycles and how they
have had their peace and solitude on the trails interrupted by
bicycles that -- because they are quiet and fast -- seemed to
appear out of nowhere and be immediately upon the hikers and other
users. Equestrians told how their horses have been startled by
speeding or oncoming bicycles and have become restless, on several
occasions even throwing and injuring experienced riders. Though
most users admitted that the great majority of bicyclists were
polite and safety- conscious, letters from hikers, equestrians,
bird watchers, joggers, and other users also repeatedly recounted
incidents of rudeness, threats, and altercations when they have
complained to an offending bicyclist about dangerous conduct. Park
staff also reported having received such complaints. ... NPS's
[National Park Service's] finding that user conflict and visitor
danger would be reduced by limiting bicycle trail access in GGNRA
was supported by ample evidence. ... Notwithstanding the
responsible user, bicycles are often perceived by other users as a
disruptive influence on park trails. Although most of the few
reported bicycle accidents in the park involve only single
individuals, letters and reports from hikers and equestrians tell
of many close calls and confrontational and unsettling
experiences". "No single- track trails [in the Marin Headlands]
were found suitable for bicycle use" (Bicycle Trails Council v.
Bruce Babbitt).
Since bicycles require wider trails, parks now often use bulldozers
to create and maintain those trails, vastly increasing their
impacts. In Claremont Canyon Regional Preserve in Oakland,
California, a new trail was created by means of a "small" (6 foot
blade) bulldozer. But it rolled off the trail and had to be rescued
by a much bigger bulldozer. The existence of bicyclists on trails
also forces park rangers to police the trails using motor vehicles
(cars or motorcycles), since it is the only way they can hope to
catch them! This also increases negative impacts on wildlife.
Children learn mostly nonverbally (by watching adults and other
children). Mountain biking is bad role modeling for them, since it
teaches them that human domination and destruction of wildlife
habitat is normal and acceptable.
Mountain bikers like to claim that excluding them from trails
constitutes "discrimination". They say that other user groups
(hikers and equestrians) receive better treatment from land
managers. There is no basis for such a claim, since all users are
subject to exactly the same rules. For example, on a trail closed
to bikes, everyone is allowed on the trail -- only the bikes are
________ _____ excluded! In spite of what they claim, mountain
bikers have never
______
been excluded from any trail! Even if my way of "enjoying" the
wilderness is to race my bulldozer there, I am not allowed to do that.
And this is not because land managers like hikers more than bulldozer
racers. I am not being excluded from the wilderness; I can go there
whenever I want, as long as I don't try to bring my
_____________________________-
_____
bulldozer with me. It is only the bulldozer that is excluded, which
_________________ _____ is due to its effects on wildlife and people.
____________________________________________
If mountain bikers were actually being discriminated against, they
could sue park managers for access to every trail that others are
allowed on. On the contrary, the U. S. Court of Appeals for the
Ninth Circuit (Bicycle Trails Council v. Bruce Babbitt) concluded
that the National Park Service has the right to ban bikes from
trails. "All units of the National Parks [are] to be treated
consistently, with resource protection the primary goal". "All
bicycle use of off- road areas [is] prohibited unless local park
superintendents [designate] particular trails to be open"
(bicyclists were contesting this rule). "Routes may only be
designated for bicycle use based on a written determination that
such use is consistent with the protection of the park area's
natural, scenic and aesthetic values, safety considerations and
management objectives and will not disturb wildlife or park
_________________________
resources". "The Park Service is empowered with the authority to
determine what uses of park resources are proper and what proportion of
the park's resources are available for each use". "The use of bicycles
is allowed in park areas under the same basic
__________________________________________________ _____-
__________
conditions as are motor vehicles, i.e. on park roads,
in parking
__________________________________________________ ____-
__________
areas, and on routes designated for their use. ... certain
______________________________________________
limitations on their use are necessary and appropriate in the interest
of public safety, resource protection, and the avoidance of visitor
conflict" [emphasis added].
Clearly, bikes are not being banned from trails because land
managers like hikers and equestrians more! As people, mountain
bikers are indistinguishable from other park users. It is the bikes
_____
that we object to, and not even the bikes, but their presence in
______-
_____
natural areas. Banning bikes is simply a humane way of protecting
_____________
our natural areas, while allowing all users equal access to enjoy them.
Thus, whether bikers or hikers or equestrians are more harmful to
wildlife (they all are, of course) is irrelevant. ___ __________
Restricting bicycle access is a way of reducing human impacts on
wildlife and wildlife habitat.
The Case of Brown's Woods
_________________________
Brown's Woods, one of the last stands of native forest in central
Iowa (southwest of DesMoines), illustrates these issues. It was
saved from logging and development in 1972 by the S. E. Polk (High
School) Ecology Club and their sponsor, biology teacher, Kirk
Brill, for which they won a national award. Motorized vehicles were
banned, "because of the threat they posed to the environment and to
persons walking there" (Wayne Bills, Polk County Conservation Board
(PCCB) Executive Director, 1972). The students worked hard to earn
money to build two miles of bike trails through the preserve.
However mountain bikers illegally built 4 1/2 additional miles of
trail ("bikers have gouged more than six miles of trail, up to 30
feet wide and a foot or more deep in spots" (Loren Lown, PCCB
Natural Resources Specialist, 1996)). Wildlife were disappearing,
elderly hikers were driven out, and vegetation was destroyed.
"Already the bikers have caused permanent irreparable damage to
this pristine area" (Ben Van Gundy, PCCB Director). It was called
"ecological vandalism". Last year, once again, Brill and his
students were forced to campaign to save the preserve, this time
from mountain bikers, and won, getting a unanimous vote of the PCCB
for a "total and permanent ban on the use of mountain bikes" in
Brown's Woods.
Millions of mountain bikes are being sold every year around the
world. Let's not wait till "bikers have caused permanent
irreparable damage" to our other natural areas! We can't eliminate
all environmental damage, but we can eliminate frivolous, ___ ___
unnecessary damage. True civilization is characterized by
restraint.
"It is expected that outdoor recreational activity will continue to
increase, while the amount of wild land where wildlife may seek
refuge from disturbance will decrease" (Knight and Gutzwiller,
p.327); "Recreationists are, ironically, destroying the very thing
they love: the blooming buzzing confusion of nature.... The
recreation industry deserves to be listed on the
________________________________________________-
____
same page with interests that are cutting the last of the old-
__________________________________________________ _________-
___
growth forests, washing fertile topsoils into the sea, and pouring
__________________________________________________ ______-
__________
billions of tons of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere" (p.340;
__________________________________________________ ______
emphasis added); "Tom Birch ... argues that wilderness managers,
charged with incarcerating wilderness, are more concerned with the
advancement of their careers through achieving quantifiable goals
(number of park visitors, total revenues) and developing park and
forest amenities (roads, 'scenic' turnouts, restrooms, paved trails,
maps, campgrounds) than with perpetuating the land community of which
they are a part" (p.344).
Ideally, we should be working to reduce all human access to
___
wildlife habitat. But at the very least, we should eliminate mechanical
access (with the exception of small compromises for __________ _____
wheelchairs).
References:
Bicycle Trails Council of Marin v. Bruce Babbitt, No.C-93- 0009,slip op.
(N. Dist. Cal., Sept. 1, 1994) (see also Third Circuit Case 94- 16920,
http://www.law.vill.edu/Fed-http://w....vill.edu/Fed-
Ct/Circuit/9th/opinions/t/9416920o.htm).
Ehrlich, Paul and Anne, Extinction: The Causes and Consequences of
________________________________-
__________
the Disappearance of Species. c.1981.
____________________________
Knight, Richard L. and Kevin J. Gutzwiller, eds. Wildlife and
__________-
__
Recreationists. Covelo, California: Island Press, c.1995.
______________
Phillips, Kathryn, Tracking the Vanishing Frogs: An Ecological
________________________________________-
___
Mystery. New York: St. Martin's Press, 1994.
____________________________________________
Stebbins, Robert, personal communication.
Vandeman, Michael J., Ph.D. http://www.imaja.com/change/environment/mva-
rticles/http://www.imaja.com/change/environment/mvarticles/
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans
("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting
auto dependence and road construction.)
http://home.pacbell.net/mjvandehttp:...ll.net/mjvande


unfortunately, brevity is not your "strong suit". R U saying that U R
against mountainbiking? Sacriledge!!! Surely U jest, am i right? You may
have thought this was the Sierra Club forum ( a good org. which i
support, by the way ) but this is hardly the forum 4 this kind of
preaching, if i'm not mistaken. I wonder how many mountainbikes it would
take 2 match the footprint of a Hummer- the governors. I think he has
more than one.



--

Chris wrote:
Vandeman, Michael J., Ph.D. http://www.imaja.com/change/environment/m-
varticles/http://www.imaja.com/change/environment/mvarticles/

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off- limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years
fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
I am working on greating a newsgroup that is off limits to Mike
Vandeman. Want to help?


Bravo!!!, that guy is a "bombthrower" & he probably can't get
anybodyelse 2 read his exhaustive thesis besides his professor, who is;
incidentally paid 2 read it, so he foists it on us unwittingly. I feel
sorry 4 the webhosters who have 2 swt aside all of those Kbytes 4 his
multiple postings



--

davidmc wrote:
Mike Vandeman wrote:

{I will snip it now -- see how that works?!??!?!?#(*&#$@*@!)}

unfortunately, brevity is not your "strong suit". R U saying that U R
against mountainbiking? Sacriledge!!! Surely U jest, am i right? You
may have thought this was the Sierra Club forum ( a good org. which i
support, by the way ) but this is hardly the forum 4 this kind of
preaching, if i'm not mistaken. I wonder how many mountainbikes it
would take 2 match the footprint of a Hummer- the governors. I think
he has
more than one.

OK, let me get this straight: you RE-POST the eco-nut's ENTIRE DRIBBLY
DIATRIBE, and then comment on his BREVITY?!?!?

You, McSir, are an even bigger idiot than he.

Bill "impressed, mightily" S.

S o r n i wrote:
davidmc wrote:
Mike Vandeman wrote:

{I will snip it now -- see how that works?!??!?!?#(*&#$@*@!)}

unfortunately, brevity is not your "strong suit". R U saying that U R
against mountainbiking? Sacriledge!!! Surely U jest, am i right? You
may have thought this was the Sierra Club forum ( a good org. which i
support, by the way ) but this is hardly the forum 4 this kind of
preaching, if i'm not mistaken. I wonder how many mountainbikes it
would take 2 match the footprint of a Hummer- the governors. I think
he has
more than one.

OK, let me get this straight: you RE-POST the eco-nut's ENTIRE
DRIBBLY DIATRIBE, and then comment on his BREVITY?!?!?

You, McSir, are an even bigger idiot than he.

Bill "impressed, mightily" S.

I was gonna comment on the same thing earlier, but I knew I had to live this
one for you, Bill. I'm not even sure why I even look at these MV threads
anymore, sorta like not being able to look away from the car wreck, even
after you've seen all you care to see.

Tom

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 15:14:30 +0200, bomba wrote:

..Mike Vandeman wrote:
..
.. God, you guys are SLOW!
..
..We're not slow. We like to travel as fast as possible - it stops us from
..taking in the countryside properly and means we don't have to react to
..flora and fauna that get in our way.

Thanks for proving my point.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 00:21:05 -0400, "tcmedara"
wrote:

..S o r n i wrote:
.. davidmc wrote:
.. Mike Vandeman wrote:
..
.. {I will snip it now -- see how that works?!??!?!?#(*&#$@*@!)}
..
.. unfortunately, brevity is not your "strong suit". R U saying that U R
.. against mountainbiking? Sacriledge!!! Surely U jest, am i right? You
.. may have thought this was the Sierra Club forum ( a good org. which i
.. support, by the way ) but this is hardly the forum 4 this kind of
.. preaching, if i'm not mistaken. I wonder how many mountainbikes it
.. would take 2 match the footprint of a Hummer- the governors. I think
.. he has
.. more than one.
..
.. OK, let me get this straight: you RE-POST the eco-nut's ENTIRE
.. DRIBBLY DIATRIBE, and then comment on his BREVITY?!?!?
..
.. You, McSir, are an even bigger idiot than he.
..
.. Bill "impressed, mightily" S.
..
..I was gonna comment on the same thing earlier, but I knew I had to live this
..one for you, Bill. I'm not even sure why I even look at these MV threads
..anymore, sorta like not being able to look away from the car wreck, even
..after you've seen all you care to see.

Mountain bikers havd no self-control, or they wouldn't be addicted.

..Tom
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 00:21:05 -0400, "tcmedara"

wrote:

.S o r n i wrote:
. davidmc wrote:
. Mike Vandeman wrote:
.
. {I will snip it now -- see how that works?!??!?!?#(*&#$@*@!)}
.
. unfortunately, brevity is not your "strong suit". R U saying that U R
. against mountainbiking? Sacriledge!!! Surely U jest, am i right? You
. may have thought this was the Sierra Club forum ( a good org. which i
. support, by the way ) but this is hardly the forum 4 this kind of
. preaching, if i'm not mistaken. I wonder how many mountainbikes it
. would take 2 match the footprint of a Hummer- the governors. I think
. he has
. more than one.
.
. OK, let me get this straight: you RE-POST the eco-nut's ENTIRE
. DRIBBLY DIATRIBE, and then comment on his BREVITY?!?!?
.
. You, McSir, are an even bigger idiot than he.
.
. Bill "impressed, mightily" S.
.
.I was gonna comment on the same thing earlier, but I knew I had to live
this
.one for you, Bill. I'm not even sure why I even look at these MV threads
.anymore, sorta like not being able to look away from the car wreck, even
.after you've seen all you care to see.

Mountain bikers havd no self-control, or they wouldn't be addicted.


I'm not sure exactly who you think you are, but it must hard to make friends
when you are clearly so superior to everybody.

It's too bad, Mike. Not just for you. I mean, you obviously are in a bad
place if you continue to post here. You must realize that you're not
reaching anybody, yet you continue. Which means that you really don't have
anything better to do, enjoy the abuse, or like patronizing others to make
yourself feel better.

I think the worst part, though, is that your ilk give environmental
advocates a bad name. I am a very green person, and believe you are truly
destructive to the goals of those who seek positive reform through the
promotion of awareness. It's amazing that this is (supposedly) what you care
about, yet your actions are free of understanding or compassion. Being a
reactionary (or fascist, more like it) clearly isn't progressive.

Have you ever tried responding to any of these emails (aka "opening a
dialogue") rather than just deriding them?

cc

In article ,
"cc" wrote (referring to "mikey":

I'm not sure exactly who you think you are, but it must hard to make friends
when you are clearly so superior to everybody.

It's a wonder mikey can get his head through the doorway, his head is so
inflated!


It's too bad, Mike. Not just for you. I mean, you obviously are in a bad
place if you continue to post here. You must realize that you're not
reaching anybody, yet you continue. Which means that you really don't have
anything better to do, enjoy the abuse, or like patronizing others to make
yourself feel better.

Maybe that's an old habit from playing "the game" when mikey was a
member of the Synanon cult.

I think the worst part, though, is that your ilk give environmental
advocates a bad name. I am a very green person, and believe you are truly
destructive to the goals of those who seek positive reform through the
promotion of awareness. It's amazing that this is (supposedly) what you care
about, yet your actions are free of understanding or compassion. Being a
reactionary (or fascist, more like it) clearly isn't progressive.

It's absurd. Take a moment to read the WWC dictionary referenced in my
sig.

Have you ever tried responding to any of these emails (aka "opening a
dialogue") rather than just deriding them?

Uh, no. Opening a dialog would involve opening his mind. If you observe
mikey long enough, you come to realize his mind is not only closed, but
the lock is rusted, and the key has long ago been discarded.

TD

--

World Without Cars Dictionary of Vandemisms (2001) is available at:
http://trekkiedad.freeservers.com/wwc.html
ICQ# available on request