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Question about brakes



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 18th 14, 01:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jakob Krieger
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Posts: 145
Default Question about brakes

- Andre Jute / Sun, 18 May 2014 13:43:29 +0200


Hi,

I have used Magura's hydraulic rim brakes on my Utopia
for five or years now and they are very progressive,
what you call doseable


As I know the term, 'progressive' is used in different
meanings. What I was asking about, is this:

... I had a cheap cable-operated disc brake and I know
exactly what you mean: it was either on or off with
no in between.


I tested this bike

http://www.steppenwolf-bikes.com/bikes/hardtail/Taiga-29/

in this shop:

http://www.radlbauer.de/Fahrraeder/29er/Steppenwolf-Taiga-29-50-2014.html

-- I won't buy it,
it was in the shop for display and test,
and I left the shop after a short ride.

from technikal data, brakes: »Shimano BRM395, 180/160mm«

the brake I found he

http://www.amazon.com/SHIMANO-BR-BL-M395-Hydraulic-Brake-Rotors/dp/B00BPJ2FN0

and here, front set - caliper, lever, tube, without disk - for 40 $

http://www.bike24.de/p152045.html

seems a quite cheap model for a bike sold
»only 900 $ - instead of 1150« [sales tax included]


Regarding this, and the shop known for quick sales,
I am not astonished any more.


So, as I understand from what you wrote,
cable-operated disk brakes are working,
but have to be re-calibrated annoyingly often.


Thanks for this opinion.


jk


--
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  #12  
Old May 18th 14, 01:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jakob Krieger
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Posts: 145
Default Question about brakes

- jbeattie / Sun, 18 May 2014 03:44:34 +0200


Lou


What brakes/levers are you using?


I think, I cut off too much of the original post
(wanted to keep the quoting clean) -

you answered to Lou, not to me.

I was talking about a Shimano M359 set (Acera line),
which seems to be 'looking worthy, but being cheap'.

The whole bike seems to be a high-profit dazzler ...



Thanks to everybody's opinions, you helped a lot.

I think I'll go for obvious build quality more than
for 'selling' names.



jk



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  #13  
Old May 18th 14, 02:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jakob Krieger
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Posts: 145
Default Question about brakes

- Jakob Krieger / Sun, 18 May 2014 01:37:22 +0200

(Lou Holtman) - addendum

Strange that you find hydraulic disk brakes undoseable.
The shop must have done something wrong.


I imagin they just didn't parallel the pads with the disc.

So, when the pad touches the disk, momentum occurs, and
the pad keys in. At least, this is how I explain it to myself.


I think, I'll avoid this shop. There is no advantage over
»kwik-E-mart«.



jk


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  #14  
Old May 18th 14, 07:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default Question about brakes

On 5/17/2014 4:57 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, May 17, 2014 5:41:58 PM UTC-4, Jakob Krieger wrote:
Hello newsgroup,





as my bike is wearing up in some expensive parts,

I am thinking about building up a new one.



Especially I am thinking to use disc brakes

instead of rim-grinders.



Everybody tells me to get hydraulic ones,

and I testet a bile equipped with such brakes

(a $ 1000 29er) in a big sports shop - they were

horrible, undoseable, either were open or blocked.



I can well imagine that in such shops, assembly

is not done by good mechanics.



On the other hand, I can't just imagine what is bad

about disc breaks operated via cable (unless you let

it rust). Is there a design flaw, or what is the

cyclists' aversion against them about?



Does anyone in real live drive with such brakes

and can tell me honestly about it?



I am not a downhill racer, and V-brakes would do

from the point of performance, but they destroy

the rims which I see as essential parts, not as

wear-off crap.







Thanks,





jk







--

no sig


Some people love cable actuated disc brakes whilst others despise them and prefer V-brakes or even cantilever brakes. Do V-brakes where down rims so quickly that the V-brakes are a problem for you?

Cheers


Linear (V) brakes do indeed wear rims faster and modern rim
sides are thinner as well.
It's a real problem for some riders. Others, not.

Cable discs are generally more reliable and more easily
serviced but fluid has its adherents. None of these systems
are 'bad' but rider needs and opinions vary greatly.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #15  
Old May 18th 14, 09:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jakob Krieger
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Posts: 145
Default Question about brakes

- AMuzi / Sun, 18 May 2014 20:16:09 +0200


Linear (V) brakes do indeed wear rims faster and modern rim
sides are thinner as well.


It's a real problem for some riders. Others, not.


I don't have a rim tree in the garden.

How long do you take to spoke and center a rim?

Or, if you have this done at the workshop,
what do you pay normally, and do you think
it is appropriate to wear out elements
so hard to replace?


Ok, may be people who bend their wheels regularly
don't have t worry rim side wear.



jk



--
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  #16  
Old May 18th 14, 11:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
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Posts: 6,153
Default Question about brakes

On 18/05/14 07:41, Jakob Krieger wrote:
Hello newsgroup,


as my bike is wearing up in some expensive parts,
I am thinking about building up a new one.

Especially I am thinking to use disc brakes
instead of rim-grinders.

Everybody tells me to get hydraulic ones,
and I testet a bile equipped with such brakes
(a $ 1000 29er) in a big sports shop - they were
horrible, undoseable, either were open or blocked.

I can well imagine that in such shops, assembly
is not done by good mechanics.

On the other hand, I can't just imagine what is bad
about disc breaks operated via cable (unless you let
it rust). Is there a design flaw, or what is the
cyclists' aversion against them about?

Does anyone in real live drive with such brakes
and can tell me honestly about it?

I am not a downhill racer, and V-brakes would do
from the point of performance, but they destroy
the rims which I see as essential parts, not as
wear-off crap.


I have a mid range mountain bike with cable actuated disk brakes. They
seem to work quite well in all weather and the rims are not worn at all.

I think the brand is Avid, but that's as much as I remember. I just
jump on the heavy beast and ride it.

As with other brakes, the type of pad likely alters the feel and
performance.

--
JS

  #17  
Old May 18th 14, 11:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
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Posts: 6,153
Default Question about brakes

On 18/05/14 08:26, Jakob Krieger wrote:
- Sir Ridesalot / Sat, 17 May 2014 23:57:49 +0200


Some people love cable actuated disc brakes ...


So there are survivers using these brakes? )

... whilst others despise them ...


Reading in MTB forums, they all seem to despise them.


Trend followers perhaps.

... and prefer V-brakes or even cantilever brakes.


I understand that the discs laying more or less open
habe some chance of getting bent.


Only if you ram into something. Just about any bike part has some
chance of getting bent. I doubt the disk is any more or less likely.
In fact, probably less likely than derailleurs and levers, I should think.

Do V-brakes where down rims so quickly that the V-brakes
are a problem for you?


Well, it seems canti/V mounting points are getting
out of fashion with frame-builders, so an accessory
construction would be needed. Or I'd have to use the
very old type held with one screw -
both not really top engineering.

From technical view, when I compare how a hydraulic
motorbike brake is made (with reservoir and reinforced
thick tubes), it is hard for me to trust the filigran
hoses used with bikes. On the other hand, cable actuated
systems have this bad reputation among cyclists (may be
induced by magazines who copy the manufacturers' texts?) -
I am unsure of what system to use.


I would keep testing new bikes.

--
JS
  #18  
Old May 19th 14, 12:31 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jakob Krieger
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Posts: 145
Default Question about brakes

- James / Mon, 19 May 2014 00:26:42 +0200


... On the other hand, I can't just imagine what is bad
about disc breaks operated via cable (unless you let
it rust). Is there a design flaw, or what is the
cyclists' aversion against them about?

Does anyone in real live drive with such brakes
and can tell me honestly about it?



I have a mid range mountain bike with cable actuated disk brakes. They
seem to work quite well in all weather and the rims are not worn at all.

I think the brand is Avid, but that's as much as I remember. I just
jump on the heavy beast and ride it.


Thanks. Looks that (a) Avid is a good brand, and (b) the bad rep
seems to be induced by over-critical people.


As with other brakes, the type of pad likely alters the feel and
performance.


This is what I know from heavier vehicles, too. Some pads
wear-off and still hardly brake. So I'll try to get
compatible spare and find out.



jk



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  #19  
Old May 19th 14, 12:55 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jakob Krieger
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Posts: 145
Default Question about brakes

- James / Mon, 19 May 2014 00:31:06 +0200


I understand that the discs laying more or less open
habe some chance of getting bent.


Only if you ram into something. Just about any bike part has some
chance of getting bent. I doubt the disk is any more or less likely.
In fact, probably less likely than derailleurs and levers, I should think.


Over the derailleur, I have a protector.

Saved me some sets until now, travelling by train for example.

I would keep testing new bikes.


This is what I will do.
And avoid bad shops.



jk



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  #20  
Old May 19th 14, 03:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Question about brakes

On 5/18/2014 4:28 PM, Jakob Krieger wrote:
- AMuzi / Sun, 18 May 2014 20:16:09 +0200


Linear (V) brakes do indeed wear rims faster and modern rim
sides are thinner as well.


It's a real problem for some riders. Others, not.


I don't have a rim tree in the garden.

How long do you take to spoke and center a rim?

Or, if you have this done at the workshop,
what do you pay normally, and do you think
it is appropriate to wear out elements
so hard to replace?


Ok, may be people who bend their wheels regularly
don't have t worry rim side wear.


Andrew (who owns a bike shop) has a good point, as usual. Rim wear is a
problem for only some people.

I've been on an off-road ride with a mountain biker who had a rim
sidewall blow out. He loved riding muddy, steep off-road terrain. That
type of riding tends to grind away rims.

OTOH, I've never known any of my road-riding friends to have that type
of failure. Road riding involves much less heavy braking, and much less
abrasive material in contact with the rim, so rim wear is rarely a big
problem on the road. It's also not a big problem for many off-road riders.

Equipment choice should depend on service conditions. Perhaps you
should tell us what your riding conditions are like.

--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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