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Making America into Amsterdam



 
 
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  #161  
Old July 16th 18, 06:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 7/16/2018 1:20 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 11:21:46 AM UTC-5, duane wrote:

Is there any place that is seriously looking at bike infrastructure to
increase revenues?

Here the motivation is to reduce the number of cars in a city that can't
handle much more traffic. Cycling is treated in much the same way as
public transit. The city wants to reduce motor vehicle traffic in town.


In my city, which has many miles of bike paths, the bike paths are under the parks and recreation department of the government. In my city we treat bike paths as parks. Recreational areas. I doubt any park in the country has paid for itself. Parks are generally built as a quality of life enhancement.


And I strongly agree with that policy. Almost all bike paths, IME, are
really linear parks.

Trouble is, there are many of these linear parks that are built using
transportation funds. I don't think that's appropriate.

Although there are a few miles of bike paths alongside the busy roads going into the downtown. I suppose those are for vehicle reduction purposes.


Those can possibly justify transportation funding. With them, the issue
tends to be quality of design. There's currently too much pushing for
crazy and confusing "innovation."


--
- Frank Krygowski
Ads
  #162  
Old July 16th 18, 06:19 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 2018-07-16 09:08, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, July 16, 2018 at 7:56:37 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-15 15:01, jbeattie wrote:

[...]


We met at a coffee shop this morning, but I didn't partake. Got
up to 95F, and I ran out of water, so I stopped at a market with
my cohorts. Also stopped for a little ferry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEfIcrKZesw&t=3s What a beautiful
day it was. No pubs. Yesterday was a death ride with my son, and
no pubs -- although I did have a beer at home, and Tylenol.
Obviously two no-fun rides because they didn't involve a pub of
any kind.


Somewhere between 95-100F yesterday, did a 20-miler after church.

http://mikebikehike.com/wp-content/u...6/IMG_0140.jpg

No, this ain't my bike. In contrast to some here who find that
"unusual" lots of people in our area ride with panniers. For longer
rides in hilly terrain without water spigots there is no
alternative other that schlepping a hydration pack which will
result in profuse sweating. Or drink American River water and get
E-Coli.

Oh, and I had an IPA on the way back 8-)


Again, you're mixing road and trail. That's a road bike with
panniers with probably 28mm tires and, gasp, ordinary rim brakes.
It's not going trail riding any time soon.


I have Nashbar Daytrekker panniers on both my road bike and my MTB.


I don't think it's unusual to see road bikes with panniers. I
probably saw 20-30 cyclists with panniers on the way to work this
morning. I think its unusual to need panniers with tons of junk in
them for a recreational weekend ride with friends, and in your case,
drinking at a pub.



It is when you find another rider bleeding and in need of something to
stop that. Needless to say, I carry a first aid kit. Or a rider who was
complaining about carpal-tunnel type symptoms in his right hand. Turns
out the shifter and brake lever were set too low. Of course, I had a 6mm
Allen wrench to fix that on the trail.

You would not believe how often my "excess baggage" has saved the day
for others with serious signs of dehydration and zero ounces in their
bottles.


.. ... I suppose if the table is wobbly, you could always
find something in your panniers to shim it. It's always good to have
rope, particularly if you want to practice your knots while
drinking.


I've use rope to tow another rider. When the rear derailer gets
pretzeled out in the boonies the only other option would be to hoof it
and be late.


I take no position on what is necessary for the brutal, godforsaken,
mountain lion infested trail riding around Cameron Park. You might
need air support for all I know.


One hiker got that recently.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #163  
Old July 16th 18, 06:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 2018-07-16 09:38, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 15:01:58 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie wrote:


Yesterday was a death ride with my son, and no pubs -- although
I did have a beer at home, and Tylenol. Obviously two no-fun
rides because they didn't involve a pub of any kind.
-- Jay Beattie.


Careful when mixing alcohol and Tylenol (acetaminophen). The
combination can cause liver damage:
https://www.healthline.com/health/pain-relief/acetaminophen-alcohol
Methinks that aspirin is safer, as long as you don't have a problem
with stomach bleeding or ulcers.


Speaking of stomach ulcers and straining to keep up with the RARE faster
rider:
Does anyone have an idea how strong an "emergency fluid" needs to be to kill
ingested helicobacter-pylori that a fly occasionally carries into the
carelessly opened mouth during strenuous cycling, especially when riding
dangerously upright (Dutch-geometry) cycles? There rarely are any St.
Bernard dogs around any more I could ask for a double brandy. So I tend to
just have a yoghurt with cayenne pepper and a garlic clove asap if it's too
late to spit the insect out. But I'd really prefer to apply some kind of
cold beer or whiskey-cola. Any ideas, home-brew or not?


Ah, another excuse for carrying a homemade IPA on this weeks MTB ride :-)

That ride has nothing in infrastructure, not even cell phone coverage.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #164  
Old July 16th 18, 06:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 7/16/2018 1:19 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-16 09:08, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, July 16, 2018 at 7:56:37 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-15 15:01, jbeattie wrote:

[...]


We met at a coffee shop this morning, but I didn't partake. Got
up to 95F, and I ran out of water, so I stopped at a market with
my cohorts.Â* Also stopped for a little ferry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEfIcrKZesw&t=3s What a beautiful
day it was. No pubs. Yesterday was a death ride with my son, and
no pubs -- although I did have a beer at home, and Tylenol.
Obviously two no-fun rides because they didn't involve a pub of
any kind.


Somewhere between 95-100F yesterday, did a 20-miler after church.

http://mikebikehike.com/wp-content/u...6/IMG_0140.jpg

No, this ain't my bike. In contrast to some here who find that
"unusual" lots of people in our area ride with panniers. For longer
rides in hilly terrain without water spigots there is no
alternative other that schlepping a hydration pack which will
result in profuse sweating. Or drink American River water and get
E-Coli.

Oh, and I had an IPA on the way back 8-)


Again, you're mixing road and trail.Â* That's a road bike with
panniers with probably 28mm tires and, gasp, ordinary rim brakes.
It's not going trail riding any time soon.


I have Nashbar Daytrekker panniers on both my road bike and my MTB.


I don't think it's unusual to see road bikes with panniers.Â* I
probably saw 20-30 cyclists with panniers on the way to work this
morning. I think its unusual to need panniers with tons of junk in
them for a recreational weekend ride with friends, and in your case,
drinking at a pub.



It is when you find another rider bleeding and in need of something to
stop that.


Because riding a bike is so damned dangerous, one comes across bleeding
riders nearly every day!!

Needless to say, I carry a first aid kit. Or a rider who was
complaining about carpal-tunnel type symptoms in his right hand. Turns
out the shifter and brake lever were set too low. Of course, I had a 6mm
Allen wrench to fix that on the trail.

You would not believe how often my "excess baggage" has saved the day
for others with serious signs of dehydration and zero ounces in their
bottles.


You're right about that: I would not believe. Unless, that is, you're
going to give us a very, very low number.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #165  
Old July 16th 18, 06:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 7/16/2018 1:22 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-16 09:38, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 15:01:58 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie wrote:


Yesterday was a death ride with my son, and no pubs -- although
I did have a beer at home, and Tylenol. Obviously two no-fun
rides because they didn't involve a pub of any kind.
-- Jay Beattie.

Careful when mixing alcohol and Tylenol (acetaminophen).* The
combination can cause liver damage:
https://www.healthline.com/health/pain-relief/acetaminophen-alcohol
Methinks that aspirin is safer, as long as you don't have a problem
with stomach bleeding or ulcers.


Speaking of stomach ulcers and straining to keep up with the RARE faster
rider:
Does anyone have an idea how strong an "emergency fluid" needs to be
to kill
ingested helicobacter-pylori that a fly occasionally carries into the
carelessly opened mouth during strenuous cycling, especially when riding
dangerously upright (Dutch-geometry) cycles?* There rarely are any St.
Bernard dogs around any more I could ask for a double brandy.* So I
tend to
just have a yoghurt with cayenne pepper and a garlic clove asap if
it's too
late to spit the insect out.* But I'd really prefer to apply some kind of
cold beer or whiskey-cola.* Any ideas, home-brew or not?


Ah, another excuse for carrying a homemade IPA on this weeks MTB ride :-)

That ride has nothing in infrastructure, not even cell phone coverage.


I've heard rumors that people used to ride bikes before cell phone
coverage ever existed. Can that really be true?

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #166  
Old July 16th 18, 06:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 2018-07-16 06:29, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/16/2018 1:14 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 11:13:59 AM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:

The issue was whether separated bicycle facilities have any effect on
the economy, which is probably "no."
-- Jay Beattie.


I'd dispute that. I live in a city with lots of bike paths. I use
them a lot. I probably bicycle more due to having the paths. Its so
easy to ride. I stop at convenience stores and restaurants more due
to cycling. I spend more of my money locally because I bicycle.
Without the paths, I might not ride. And I would not go to the
convenience stores or restaurants. Less of my money would be spent
locally. My money would stay in my bank account until I spend it on
stuff ordered from Amazon or invested in the stock market. It
definitely would not go to local merchants.



+1

Well said.


I don't doubt that you and Joerg use bike paths and buy things.



I do, a lot. Often I need stuff for my job, things like enclosures,
contactors, breakers, tools, et cetera. So I combine that with a valley
ride. This is why people sometimes see me cycle back up the hill with a
large box on my rack.

Needless to say, stores along bike paths will be preferred, always. The
same goes for when I pick up groceries, visit a brew pub, a restaurant,
or whatever. If it's on or close to a bike path they'll get my business
just like it is with Russell. I also know others who think and act the
same way. If not reachable via bike path, might as well buy online. One
of the result was that a pub saw a business opportunity and now offers
10% discount if you come by bike. Brilliant!



... But
that's a long, long way from saying that bike paths have any
(significant) effect on the economy.


It does for those shops.


The longest bike path in our area has obviously allowed one bike shop to
thrive. But two other bike shops opened at other locations along the
same bike path. One moved after a few years to a better location, where
they are making much more money. The other closed down maybe a week ago.
They said it was unprofitable.

The net overall effect on the economy of that path is very close to zero.


The usual "Glass-half-empty-Frank" statement.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #167  
Old July 16th 18, 06:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 2018-07-16 10:23, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/16/2018 1:19 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-16 09:08, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, July 16, 2018 at 7:56:37 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-15 15:01, jbeattie wrote:

[...]


We met at a coffee shop this morning, but I didn't partake. Got
up to 95F, and I ran out of water, so I stopped at a market with
my cohorts. Also stopped for a little ferry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEfIcrKZesw&t=3s What a beautiful
day it was. No pubs. Yesterday was a death ride with my son, and
no pubs -- although I did have a beer at home, and Tylenol.
Obviously two no-fun rides because they didn't involve a pub of
any kind.


Somewhere between 95-100F yesterday, did a 20-miler after church.

http://mikebikehike.com/wp-content/u...6/IMG_0140.jpg

No, this ain't my bike. In contrast to some here who find that
"unusual" lots of people in our area ride with panniers. For longer
rides in hilly terrain without water spigots there is no
alternative other that schlepping a hydration pack which will
result in profuse sweating. Or drink American River water and get
E-Coli.

Oh, and I had an IPA on the way back 8-)

Again, you're mixing road and trail. That's a road bike with
panniers with probably 28mm tires and, gasp, ordinary rim brakes.
It's not going trail riding any time soon.


I have Nashbar Daytrekker panniers on both my road bike and my MTB.


I don't think it's unusual to see road bikes with panniers. I
probably saw 20-30 cyclists with panniers on the way to work this
morning. I think its unusual to need panniers with tons of junk in
them for a recreational weekend ride with friends, and in your case,
drinking at a pub.



It is when you find another rider bleeding and in need of something to
stop that.


Because riding a bike is so damned dangerous, one comes across bleeding
riders nearly every day!!


A few times a year. They aren't always cyclists. Is that not worth it in
your opinion? You'd just bid them a good day and leave? I sure don't. As
the scouts say, be prepared, always.


Needless to say, I carry a first aid kit. Or a rider who was
complaining about carpal-tunnel type symptoms in his right hand. Turns
out the shifter and brake lever were set too low. Of course, I had a
6mm Allen wrench to fix that on the trail.

You would not believe how often my "excess baggage" has saved the day
for others with serious signs of dehydration and zero ounces in their
bottles.


You're right about that: I would not believe. Unless, that is, you're
going to give us a very, very low number.


One guy (on a hike in Yosemite) would most likely not have made it if it
wasn't for a large excess stash of water and food in our backpacks. He
had laid down away from the trail, delirious, could barely speak anymore
and mumbled he just wanted to die there.

A Chinese tourist in Grand Canyon ran out of water and gave up on the
trail, in the glistening sun. Just wanted to "stay there". I have her a
lot of water and food until she perked up.

Even if the number was "1" (which it isn't), that would be well worth it
as far as I am concerned.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #168  
Old July 16th 18, 06:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 2018-07-16 10:29, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/16/2018 1:22 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-16 09:38, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 15:01:58 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie wrote:

Yesterday was a death ride with my son, and no pubs -- although
I did have a beer at home, and Tylenol. Obviously two no-fun
rides because they didn't involve a pub of any kind.
-- Jay Beattie.

Careful when mixing alcohol and Tylenol (acetaminophen). The
combination can cause liver damage:
https://www.healthline.com/health/pain-relief/acetaminophen-alcohol
Methinks that aspirin is safer, as long as you don't have a problem
with stomach bleeding or ulcers.

Speaking of stomach ulcers and straining to keep up with the RARE faster
rider:
Does anyone have an idea how strong an "emergency fluid" needs to be
to kill
ingested helicobacter-pylori that a fly occasionally carries into the
carelessly opened mouth during strenuous cycling, especially when riding
dangerously upright (Dutch-geometry) cycles? There rarely are any St.
Bernard dogs around any more I could ask for a double brandy. So I
tend to
just have a yoghurt with cayenne pepper and a garlic clove asap if
it's too
late to spit the insect out. But I'd really prefer to apply some
kind of
cold beer or whiskey-cola. Any ideas, home-brew or not?


Ah, another excuse for carrying a homemade IPA on this weeks MTB ride :-)

That ride has nothing in infrastructure, not even cell phone coverage.


I've heard rumors that people used to ride bikes before cell phone
coverage ever existed. Can that really be true?


Sure it can but it increases the risk of a rider not making it if you
find one that has crashed hard. That goes even more for rattlesnake
bites which typically won't allow you to hoof or ride it out of there
under your own power. Which is why, on that trail, I carry a small ham
radio transceiver so I can reach the KA6GWY repeater in an emergency.

http://www.rubicontrail.org/rtf-hamradios.htm

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #169  
Old July 16th 18, 07:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 2018-07-16 10:14, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/16/2018 1:20 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 11:21:46 AM UTC-5, duane wrote:

Is there any place that is seriously looking at bike infrastructure to
increase revenues?

Here the motivation is to reduce the number of cars in a city that can't
handle much more traffic. Cycling is treated in much the same way as
public transit. The city wants to reduce motor vehicle traffic in town.


In my city, which has many miles of bike paths, the bike paths are
under the parks and recreation department of the government. In my
city we treat bike paths as parks. Recreational areas. I doubt any
park in the country has paid for itself. Parks are generally built as
a quality of life enhancement.


And I strongly agree with that policy. Almost all bike paths, IME, are
really linear parks.

Trouble is, there are many of these linear parks that are built using
transportation funds. I don't think that's appropriate.


That assertion is wrong.

https://www.cityofberkeley.info/bicy...walkingguides/

It even says transportation on their web site. Because that's what many
bike paths are.


Although there are a few miles of bike paths alongside the busy roads
going into the downtown. I suppose those are for vehicle reduction
purposes.


Those can possibly justify transportation funding. With them, the issue
tends to be quality of design. There's currently too much pushing for
crazy and confusing "innovation."


Unless it's done right. I find myself cyling more and more in Rancho
Cordova, California. When I worked there until about 15 years ago the
bicycle infrastructure was largely the pits and hardly anyone cycled. I
didn't either, because of that. Nowadays, what a difference! It's a joy.

http://www.cityofranchocordova.org/g...transportation

They are next to Folsom. It took a long time but they have obviously
learned very well from their neighbor.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #170  
Old July 16th 18, 07:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sepp Ruf
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 454
Default Making America into Amsterdam

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/16/2018 1:22 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-16 09:38, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 15:01:58 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie wrote:

Yesterday was a death ride with my son, and no pubs -- although
I did have a beer at home, and Tylenol. Obviously two no-fun
rides because they didn't involve a pub of any kind.
-- Jay Beattie.

Careful when mixing alcohol and Tylenol (acetaminophen).* The
combination can cause liver damage:
https://www.healthline.com/health/pain-relief/acetaminophen-alcohol
Methinks that aspirin is safer, as long as you don't have a problem
with stomach bleeding or ulcers.

Speaking of stomach ulcers and straining to keep up with the RARE faster
rider:
Does anyone have an idea how strong an "emergency fluid" needs to be
to kill
ingested helicobacter-pylori that a fly occasionally carries into the
carelessly opened mouth during strenuous cycling, especially when riding
dangerously upright (Dutch-geometry) cycles?* There rarely are any St.
Bernard dogs around any more I could ask for a double brandy.* So I
tend to
just have a yoghurt with cayenne pepper and a garlic clove asap if
it's too
late to spit the insect out.* But I'd really prefer to apply some kind of
cold beer or whiskey-cola.* Any ideas, home-brew or not?


Ah, another excuse for carrying a homemade IPA on this weeks MTB ride :-)


You better have at least some in-vitro testing on fly stomach bacteria ready
to present before claiming any medical benefit to your watery, non-flammable
concoction that won't even eat through stainless steel!

Do at least get the 70% version of the Andrew's ChartreuseJersey-recommended
absinthe (Spain's traditional filtered veggie smoothie) that's available in
a crash-safe PET bottle!

That ride has nothing in infrastructure, not even cell phone coverage.


Cell phone coverage is for p*ssies. Better take a radiator hose with you.
Together with your multipurpose iron nail, it will help you sense water
veins, and you can produce infrasonic elephant noises with it, thus alerting
rescue teams in Chinese submarines off the coast!
https://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/state/california/article214901920.html

I've heard rumors that people used to ride bikes before cell phone
coverage ever existed. Can that really be true?


Yes, but long gone are the days when people were still able to just shut up
if needed, thus protecting their stomachs from fly-vectored ulcers and
deadly cancers.
 




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