Attacking hills

On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 19:52:09 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
wrote:
the black rose wrote:
|| Roger Zoul wrote:
||| What about your knees? You don't sound like a teen....
||
|| My knees are in pretty good shape. One knee took a knock in an auto
|| accident (shattered a dashboard) 30 years ago, but except for an ugly
|| scar and a tendency to forecast the weather, it's holding up as well
|| as the other.

I was concerned because I have read in many places that cracking up hills in
higher gear can result in knee problems (one of the two major causes, so I
hear). Also, in the 2004 TdF, it seemed obvious that LA's style results in
overall better ability than does Jan Ullrich's style (the former uses lower
gears and the latter works in higher gears). That's all.

I've read the same thing, but I've also seen it taken to extremes. I
passed (and was passed by) one rider on a century who would stand on
the pedals as soon as a hill flattened, but show her any kind of grade
uphill, and she'd gear down - apparently all the way down to her
granny - and spin like crazy. And these were short, easy hills --
maybe 4% for 100-200 yards.

Never did figure out how her knees allowed her to stand up...

Pat

Email address works as is.

I've read the same thing, but I've also seen it taken to extremes. I
passed (and was passed by) one rider on a century who would stand on
the pedals as soon as a hill flattened, but show her any kind of grade
uphill, and she'd gear down - apparently all the way down to her
granny - and spin like crazy. And these were short, easy hills --
maybe 4% for 100-200 yards.

Never did figure out how her knees allowed her to stand up...

Pat

If I am taking your meaning right, I can explain what you saw. When I do it
right, I have to lean 'way forward so that I am using my entire body weight
on the pedals. If you do it wrong, you burn up your quads so fast it isn't
funny! but, if you manage the gears so that the effort is tough AND you
stand and lean forward, it actually isn't so bad. I once stood up for 200
pedal strokes. I had my single speed bike and the hill was short but steep
and I was determined to get up to the top without sitting back down. When
it got too tough to pedal sitting down, I literally threw my weight up and
forward.

Pat in TX

Spinning's good advice for the longer hills, but you might as well
just blast over the rollers. It's excellent interval work. Small
ring for the climbs, big ring for the rollers. Before you know it,
some of those climbs will start looking like rollers.

Good advice. But I have noticed that what passes for "rollers" varys with
topography. I was on a tour in Colorado and I noted that what people called
"rollers" on that tour made my ears pop as I climbed them. To me, anything
that has enough altitude change to cause one's ear to pop is at least a "hill".

Pat wrote:
I've read the same thing, but I've also seen it taken to extremes. I
passed (and was passed by) one rider on a century who would stand on
the pedals as soon as a hill flattened, but show her any kind of grade
uphill, and she'd gear down - apparently all the way down to her
granny - and spin like crazy. And these were short, easy hills --
maybe 4% for 100-200 yards.

Never did figure out how her knees allowed her to stand up...

Pat


If I am taking your meaning right, I can explain what you saw. When I do it
right, I have to lean 'way forward so that I am using my entire body weight
on the pedals. If you do it wrong, you burn up your quads so fast it isn't
funny! but, if you manage the gears so that the effort is tough AND you
stand and lean forward, it actually isn't so bad. I once stood up for 200
pedal strokes. I had my single speed bike and the hill was short but steep
and I was determined to get up to the top without sitting back down. When
it got too tough to pedal sitting down, I literally threw my weight up and
forward.

Cool! I wasn't able to make it to the top of any but one hill standing
on the pedals, but I could definitely feel that my knees were taking
less stress when I was standing on the pedals than when I sat back down,
but then, when I'm standing on the pedals I'm also upright and leaning
forward. Every hill, my lungs were giving out before my legs were. My
next goal with the hill attacks is to extend the distance I can get up
them before my lungs give out.

-km

--
the black rose
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 13:57:56 GMT, the black rose
wrote:

Pat wrote:
I've read the same thing, but I've also seen it taken to extremes. I
passed (and was passed by) one rider on a century who would stand on
the pedals as soon as a hill flattened, but show her any kind of grade
uphill, and she'd gear down - apparently all the way down to her
granny - and spin like crazy. And these were short, easy hills --
maybe 4% for 100-200 yards.

Never did figure out how her knees allowed her to stand up...

Pat


If I am taking your meaning right, I can explain what you saw. When I do it
right, I have to lean 'way forward so that I am using my entire body weight
on the pedals. If you do it wrong, you burn up your quads so fast it isn't
funny! but, if you manage the gears so that the effort is tough AND you
stand and lean forward, it actually isn't so bad. I once stood up for 200
pedal strokes. I had my single speed bike and the hill was short but steep
and I was determined to get up to the top without sitting back down. When
it got too tough to pedal sitting down, I literally threw my weight up and
forward.

Cool! I wasn't able to make it to the top of any but one hill standing
on the pedals, but I could definitely feel that my knees were taking
less stress when I was standing on the pedals than when I sat back down,
but then, when I'm standing on the pedals I'm also upright and leaning
forward. Every hill, my lungs were giving out before my legs were. My
next goal with the hill attacks is to extend the distance I can get up
them before my lungs give out.

-km

If you're cautious and traffic is low, you can use a slalom technique and
get up those hills. Instead of pedalling straight up the 'fall line', you
just go from edge to edge and turn. It takes longer, but the pitch is not
as steep.

Again, be very carefull about cars, since you're going into the opposite
lane. On one hill in my area, a dead end street, I can tell easily by sight
and sound that there are no cars, and I use this technique. As you get
stronger, your slalom gets narrower until you can eventually climb straight
up.

Another technique is to find a mild hill, but one that goes for say 1/4
mile or less. Then do repeats until the quads are well-worked. If you
'work' on this mild incline for a week or two, you'll soon be breezing up
it and then other, harder hills are not as difficult since you've built up
technique, rpm, and improved lactic acid handling. You need not just
stronger quads, but increased vascularity. Some ppl think you actually
increase the number of mitochondria in your cells (energy producing
organelles) with such training.

-B

the black rose wrote in
:
Cool! I wasn't able to make it to the top of any but one hill standing
on the pedals, but I could definitely feel that my knees were taking
less stress when I was standing on the pedals than when I sat back down,
but then, when I'm standing on the pedals I'm also upright and leaning
forward. Every hill, my lungs were giving out before my legs were.

Sounds like a fitness issue. Just keep practicing and you will improve
quickly.

Don't lean too far forward. Try to balance your weight 50-50 between the
front and back wheels. Too much weight on the front tire just increases
rolling resistance.

"Ken" wrote: (clip) Don't lean too far forward. Try to balance your
weight 50-50 between the front and back wheels. Too much weight on the
front tire just increases rolling resistance.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Seems to me that on a REALLY steep hill, your rolling resistance is the
least of your worries. Consider, also, that as the angle of climb
increases, your weight shifts to the rear wheel, to the point where the
front wheel can start to lift with each pedal stroke. Standing up not only
increases your pedalling strength, but also helps keep the front end down.
(I have never experienced this on paved roads, but it is not uncommon on
trails.)

Ken wrote:
the black rose wrote in
:

Cool! I wasn't able to make it to the top of any but one hill standing
on the pedals, but I could definitely feel that my knees were taking
less stress when I was standing on the pedals than when I sat back down,
but then, when I'm standing on the pedals I'm also upright and leaning
forward. Every hill, my lungs were giving out before my legs were.


Sounds like a fitness issue. Just keep practicing and you will improve
quickly.

Well yes. I've only been at this for two months.

But it's also a lung issue. I've had a complete pulmonary function
workup. My lung capacity and flow rates are normal, but my gas exchange
values are abnormal -- IOW, the gas permeable membranes in my lungs are
exchanging gases more slowly than they should. I will always get out of
breath more easily than I should. The symptoms mimic asthma. It's just
the way my lungs are, no treatment, no cure.

Don't lean too far forward. Try to balance your weight 50-50 between the
front and back wheels. Too much weight on the front tire just increases
rolling resistance.

I've a notion that once I can get out there on a road bike (I'm riding a
heavy hybrid), rolling resistance won't be as much of an issue. ;-)

-km

--
the black rose
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

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In article ,
Roger Zoul wrote:
the black rose wrote:
|| Roger Zoul wrote:
||| What about your knees? You don't sound like a teen....
||
|| My knees are in pretty good shape. One knee took a knock in an auto
|| accident (shattered a dashboard) 30 years ago, but except for an ugly
|| scar and a tendency to forecast the weather, it's holding up as well
|| as the other.

I was concerned because I have read in many places that cracking up hills in
higher gear can result in knee problems (one of the two major causes, so I
hear). Also, in the 2004 TdF, it seemed obvious that LA's style results in
overall better ability than does Jan Ullrich's style (the former uses lower
gears and the latter works in higher gears). That's all.


_ If you're standing on the pedals rather than seated and
grinding away you don't really put your knees at that much
risk. My knees youch if I try to climb seated in a relatively
high gear, but are just fine if I stand to climb. The problem
is that I'm not in good enough shape to climb out of the saddle
for very long.

_ As far as emulating Lance, it's taken him years to train to
climb at that high a cadence. Spinning up hills is good technique
IMHO, but 70-80 rpm is a reasonable goal for most people. 100-110
rpm will have you sucking wind very quickly since it takes some
practice and skill to keep power to the pedals at that high an
rpm.

_ Booker C. Bense





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Cool! I wasn't able to make it to the top of any but one hill standing
on the pedals, but I could definitely feel that my knees were taking
less stress when I was standing on the pedals than when I sat back down,
but then, when I'm standing on the pedals I'm also upright and leaning
forward. Every hill, my lungs were giving out before my legs were. My
next goal with the hill attacks is to extend the distance I can get up
them before my lungs give out.

-km

I do not have the lung problems because I am a swimmer. You might consider
taking up swimming as it really trains the lungs while you are doing
something pleasurable. Even as a newbie bike rider, my swimming 'base' gave
me an edge.

Pat in TX