NY bike path mayhem

On 11/5/2017 8:29 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per AMuzi:
WTF? I suspect you 'misremembered' that.

Tamerlan Trarnayev died of blunt trauma

I was thinking of his brother hiding in the boat and the 20 seconds of
continuous small arms fire ("Contagious Fire"??) that the geniuses
surrounding poured into the boat.

It was nothing short of a miracle that he survived - and at a time when
they did not know:

- If others were involved

- If more bombs had been placed.

If ever there was an need to keep somebody alive to be debriefed in the
interest of saving civilian lives, that was it.

Didn't the 911 investigative panel return a finding that communications
between agencies/forces was a major failing? .... Didn't seem to me
like there was much communication going on the more like every
amateur/volunteer cop/Barney Fife Wannabe for miles around descending on
the place looking for somebody to shoot.

And did anybody else notice the guy in the full beard and plain clothes
carrying something that looked like an AR-15 running around? I'm
surprised he lived through that debacle.

I watched most of it on live TV and came away thinking I had been
watching The Keystone Cops in action.

Heaven forbid something really big happens.


While you or I were thinking about, for example, a woman
with no legs who watched her child turned to red spray, the
officers were likely thinking equally about Sean Colier:

"The original question is they walked up to that car and
appeared they shot the officer in the head unprovoked, that
it was an assassination. But why? How did that fit into
their plan? The operating theory now in the investigation is
they were short one gun. The older brother had a gun. They
wanted to get a gun for the younger brother and the fastest
and most efficient way they could think of doing it was a
surprise attack on a cop, to take his weapon and go. Officer
Collier had a locking holster, it’s like a three-way lock.
If you don’t know how to remove the gun, you’re not going to
get it out. There was apparently an attempt to yank it and
they couldn’t get it and left. “

I'm not excusing it but it's understandable.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 7:16:24 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2017 8:29 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per AMuzi:
WTF? I suspect you 'misremembered' that.

Tamerlan Trarnayev died of blunt trauma

I was thinking of his brother hiding in the boat and the 20 seconds of
continuous small arms fire ("Contagious Fire"??) that the geniuses
surrounding poured into the boat.

It was nothing short of a miracle that he survived - and at a time when
they did not know:

- If others were involved

- If more bombs had been placed.

If ever there was an need to keep somebody alive to be debriefed in the
interest of saving civilian lives, that was it.

Didn't the 911 investigative panel return a finding that communications
between agencies/forces was a major failing? .... Didn't seem to me
like there was much communication going on the more like every
amateur/volunteer cop/Barney Fife Wannabe for miles around descending on
the place looking for somebody to shoot.

And did anybody else notice the guy in the full beard and plain clothes
carrying something that looked like an AR-15 running around? I'm
surprised he lived through that debacle.

I watched most of it on live TV and came away thinking I had been
watching The Keystone Cops in action.

Heaven forbid something really big happens.


While you or I were thinking about, for example, a woman
with no legs who watched her child turned to red spray, the
officers were likely thinking equally about Sean Colier:

"The original question is they walked up to that car and
appeared they shot the officer in the head unprovoked, that
it was an assassination. But why? How did that fit into
their plan? The operating theory now in the investigation is
they were short one gun. The older brother had a gun. They
wanted to get a gun for the younger brother and the fastest
and most efficient way they could think of doing it was a
surprise attack on a cop, to take his weapon and go. Officer
Collier had a locking holster, it’s like a three-way lock.
If you don’t know how to remove the gun, you’re not going to
get it out. There was apparently an attempt to yank it and
they couldn’t get it and left. “

I'm not excusing it but it's understandable.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

http://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-churc...ry?id=50958603

On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 10:42:15 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 20:24:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/5/2017 7:58 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2017 6:05 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:

It's been pointed out by others that the most humane version of the
death
penalty might be a single bullet to the brain stem from behind. As
far as we
know, it's instantaneous, probably much faster than the guillotine. I
don't
know why that's not considered the default method.

- Frank Krygowski

I think one issue with that approach is that it's not necessarily very
humane to the guy pulling the trigger (although I suspect there would be
somebody willing to do that job for the right amount of money). I guess
that's one field where a bit of automation might be helpful.


Hence the traditional firing squad with one blank cartridge in the
squad. Mr Barone hints at the larger effect of the simpler method:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/nkvd.jpg

You don't want people to get inured to execution such that it seems
ordinary.

One of my friends and colleagues was of the Bahá'Ã* faith. He fled to
this country to avoid persecution by Iranian muslims.

He once gave me his account of the execution, by firing squad, of the
Báb, the founder of the faith. He was placed against a wall. Hundreds of
men in the firing squad pointed their rifles and, at the command, pulled
their triggers. My friend says when the smoke cleared, the Báb was
unhurt. According to my friend, it was no miracle. It was simply that of
the hundreds with rifles, none wanted to be responsible for killing such
an obviously holy man.

The official Bahá'Ã* versions are different, shading a bit more toward
the miraculous. In any case, a second attempt did kill the Báb.


A very radical religion. Good Lord they forbid:
Backbiting and gossip
Drinking or selling alcohol
Sexual intercourse outside of marriage
Partisan politics
Begging as a profession
--
Cheers,

John B.

No, the scheme is a primitive attempt at a five year plan

the so called religious aspect is a psychological product of cutting all the trees down followed by desertification

On 11/6/2017 8:23 AM, wrote:
On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 7:16:24 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2017 8:29 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per AMuzi:
WTF? I suspect you 'misremembered' that.

Tamerlan Trarnayev died of blunt trauma

I was thinking of his brother hiding in the boat and the 20 seconds of
continuous small arms fire ("Contagious Fire"??) that the geniuses
surrounding poured into the boat.

It was nothing short of a miracle that he survived - and at a time when
they did not know:

- If others were involved

- If more bombs had been placed.

If ever there was an need to keep somebody alive to be debriefed in the
interest of saving civilian lives, that was it.

Didn't the 911 investigative panel return a finding that communications
between agencies/forces was a major failing? .... Didn't seem to me
like there was much communication going on the more like every
amateur/volunteer cop/Barney Fife Wannabe for miles around descending on
the place looking for somebody to shoot.

And did anybody else notice the guy in the full beard and plain clothes
carrying something that looked like an AR-15 running around? I'm
surprised he lived through that debacle.

I watched most of it on live TV and came away thinking I had been
watching The Keystone Cops in action.

Heaven forbid something really big happens.


While you or I were thinking about, for example, a woman
with no legs who watched her child turned to red spray, the
officers were likely thinking equally about Sean Colier:

"The original question is they walked up to that car and
appeared they shot the officer in the head unprovoked, that
it was an assassination. But why? How did that fit into
their plan? The operating theory now in the investigation is
they were short one gun. The older brother had a gun. They
wanted to get a gun for the younger brother and the fastest
and most efficient way they could think of doing it was a
surprise attack on a cop, to take his weapon and go. Officer
Collier had a locking holster, it’s like a three-way lock.
If you don’t know how to remove the gun, you’re not going to
get it out. There was apparently an attempt to yank it and
they couldn’t get it and left. “

I'm not excusing it but it's understandable.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

http://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-churc...ry?id=50958603



from your link:
"As he exited the church, a local resident grabbed his
rifle and engaged that suspect, Martin said. "The suspect
dropped his rifle -- which was a Rueger AR assault-type
rifle -- and fled from the church. Our local citizen pursued
the suspect at that time."

The suspect, who fled in a car, crashed and was later found
dead in his vehicle in Guadalupe County, according to
authorities. It's unclear whether he died from a
self-inflicted gunshot wound or whether he was shot by
another person, officials said.

Interrupted by an armed citizen.
Ruger is spelled wrong.
An AR is a semi - not a Sturmgewehr.

Idiot was prohibited from possessing a firearm, in addition
to several and various other illegal acts.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 11/6/2017 9:31 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/6/2017 8:23 AM, wrote:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-churc...ry?id=50958603

from your link:
*"As he exited the church, a local resident grabbed his rifle and
engaged that suspect, Martin said. "The suspect dropped his rifle --
which was a Rueger AR assault-type rifle -- and fled from the church.
Our local citizen pursued the suspect at that time."

The suspect, who fled in a car, crashed and was later found dead in his
vehicle in Guadalupe County, according to authorities. It's unclear
whether he died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound or whether he was
shot by another person, officials said.

Interrupted by an armed citizen.
Ruger is spelled wrong.
An AR is a semi - not a Sturmgewehr.

Idiot was prohibited from possessing a firearm, in addition to several
and various other illegal acts.

You're focusing on minutae. Step back and look at the problem. And don't
pretend that mass shootings in America are not a problem.

How long was Kelley in the church? How many rounds did he fire? Why does
anyone really need to fire more than about ten rounds in one minute,
except to commit a mass killing?

Are you a "good guy with a gun" fan? If Kelley had been restricted to
something like one shot every five seconds, some "good guy with a gun"
might have had a chance to stop him. Of course, that requires someone to
carry a self-defense weapon into a country church on a Sunday morning.
That situation alone is despicable.

Why should a private citizen be allowed to buy a rifle with many
features designed ONLY for killing human beings and doing it rapidly?
Why should such guns be for sale on the open market?

Will gun nuts continue to pretend the Founders' "well regulated militia"
includes a mass murderer of churchgoers?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 11/6/2017 9:36 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/6/2017 9:31 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/6/2017 8:23 AM, wrote:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-churc...ry?id=50958603


from your link:
"As he exited the church, a local resident grabbed his
rifle and engaged that suspect, Martin said. "The suspect
dropped his rifle -- which was a Rueger AR assault-type
rifle -- and fled from the church. Our local citizen
pursued the suspect at that time."

The suspect, who fled in a car, crashed and was later
found dead in his vehicle in Guadalupe County, according
to authorities. It's unclear whether he died from a
self-inflicted gunshot wound or whether he was shot by
another person, officials said.

Interrupted by an armed citizen.
Ruger is spelled wrong.
An AR is a semi - not a Sturmgewehr.

Idiot was prohibited from possessing a firearm, in
addition to several and various other illegal acts.

You're focusing on minutae. Step back and look at the
problem. And don't pretend that mass shootings in America
are not a problem.

How long was Kelley in the church? How many rounds did he
fire? Why does anyone really need to fire more than about
ten rounds in one minute, except to commit a mass killing?

Are you a "good guy with a gun" fan? If Kelley had been
restricted to something like one shot every five seconds,
some "good guy with a gun" might have had a chance to stop
him. Of course, that requires someone to carry a
self-defense weapon into a country church on a Sunday
morning. That situation alone is despicable.

Why should a private citizen be allowed to buy a rifle with
many features designed ONLY for killing human beings and
doing it rapidly? Why should such guns be for sale on the
open market?

Will gun nuts continue to pretend the Founders' "well
regulated militia" includes a mass murderer of churchgoers?



Updates this morning-

Church included among its members the idiot's inlaws. They
were not there yet, arrived later.

A plumber with no formal training grabbed his rifle,
returned fire immediately then flagged a passing car to
pursue said idiot.

You can't outlaw mental illness or stupidity or rage but the
survivors appreciate that he was driven off and then
stopped. Too bad Mr Plumber wasn't a minute quicker.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 06/11/2017 11:03 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/6/2017 9:36 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/6/2017 9:31 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/6/2017 8:23 AM, wrote:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-churc...ry?id=50958603



from your link:
Â* "As he exited the church, a local resident grabbed his
rifle and engaged that suspect, Martin said. "The suspect
dropped his rifle -- which was a Rueger AR assault-type
rifle -- and fled from the church. Our local citizen
pursued the suspect at that time."

The suspect, who fled in a car, crashed and was later
found dead in his vehicle in Guadalupe County, according
to authorities. It's unclear whether he died from a
self-inflicted gunshot wound or whether he was shot by
another person, officials said.

Interrupted by an armed citizen.
Ruger is spelled wrong.
An AR is a semi - not a Sturmgewehr.

Idiot was prohibited from possessing a firearm, in
addition to several and various other illegal acts.

You're focusing on minutae. Step back and look at the
problem. And don't pretend that mass shootings in America
are not a problem.

How long was Kelley in the church? How many rounds did he
fire? Why does anyone really need to fire more than about
ten rounds in one minute, except to commit a mass killing?

Are you a "good guy with a gun" fan? If Kelley had been
restricted to something like one shot every five seconds,
some "good guy with a gun" might have had a chance to stop
him. Of course, that requires someone to carry a
self-defense weapon into a country church on a Sunday
morning. That situation alone is despicable.

Why should a private citizen be allowed to buy a rifle with
many features designed ONLY for killing human beings and
doing it rapidly? Why should such guns be for sale on the
open market?

Will gun nuts continue to pretend the Founders' "well
regulated militia" includes a mass murderer of churchgoers?



Updates this morning-

Church included among its members the idiot's inlaws. They were not
there yet, arrived later.

A plumber with no formal training grabbed his rifle, returned fire
immediately then flagged a passing car to pursue said idiot.

You can't outlaw mental illness or stupidity or rage but the survivors
appreciate that he was driven off and then stopped. Too bad Mr Plumber
wasn't a minute quicker.


Apparently even if you outlaw selling weapons to felons that doesn't
work either.

Hard to see how Mr Plumber is ever going to be there in time unless he
has his loaded weapon in the church with him and sees Mr Asshole pulling
his.

These arguments against gun control keep happening and mass killings
aren't slowing down.

I rarely agree with Frank but I'm not seeing how some asshole's "right"
to have weapons of mass murder supersedes my right to not be shot
sitting in a church on a Sunday morning. Thank god I'm an atheist.

On 11/6/2017 10:22 AM, Duane wrote:
On 06/11/2017 11:03 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/6/2017 9:36 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/6/2017 9:31 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/6/2017 8:23 AM, wrote:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-churc...ry?id=50958603



from your link:
 "As he exited the church, a local resident grabbed his
rifle and engaged that suspect, Martin said. "The suspect
dropped his rifle -- which was a Rueger AR assault-type
rifle -- and fled from the church. Our local citizen
pursued the suspect at that time."

The suspect, who fled in a car, crashed and was later
found dead in his vehicle in Guadalupe County, according
to authorities. It's unclear whether he died from a
self-inflicted gunshot wound or whether he was shot by
another person, officials said.

Interrupted by an armed citizen.
Ruger is spelled wrong.
An AR is a semi - not a Sturmgewehr.

Idiot was prohibited from possessing a firearm, in
addition to several and various other illegal acts.

You're focusing on minutae. Step back and look at the
problem. And don't pretend that mass shootings in America
are not a problem.

How long was Kelley in the church? How many rounds did he
fire? Why does anyone really need to fire more than about
ten rounds in one minute, except to commit a mass killing?

Are you a "good guy with a gun" fan? If Kelley had been
restricted to something like one shot every five seconds,
some "good guy with a gun" might have had a chance to stop
him. Of course, that requires someone to carry a
self-defense weapon into a country church on a Sunday
morning. That situation alone is despicable.

Why should a private citizen be allowed to buy a rifle with
many features designed ONLY for killing human beings and
doing it rapidly? Why should such guns be for sale on the
open market?

Will gun nuts continue to pretend the Founders' "well
regulated militia" includes a mass murderer of churchgoers?



Updates this morning-

Church included among its members the idiot's inlaws. They
were not there yet, arrived later.

A plumber with no formal training grabbed his rifle,
returned fire immediately then flagged a passing car to
pursue said idiot.

You can't outlaw mental illness or stupidity or rage but
the survivors appreciate that he was driven off and then
stopped. Too bad Mr Plumber wasn't a minute quicker.


Apparently even if you outlaw selling weapons to felons that
doesn't work either.

Hard to see how Mr Plumber is ever going to be there in time
unless he has his loaded weapon in the church with him and
sees Mr Asshole pulling his.

These arguments against gun control keep happening and mass
killings aren't slowing down.

I rarely agree with Frank but I'm not seeing how some
asshole's "right" to have weapons of mass murder supersedes
my right to not be shot sitting in a church on a Sunday
morning. Thank god I'm an atheist.


He's a prohibited felon but ATF passed him in 2016.
So much for ' enlightened rule by experts '.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 9:15:05 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/6/2017 10:22 AM, Duane wrote:
On 06/11/2017 11:03 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/6/2017 9:36 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/6/2017 9:31 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/6/2017 8:23 AM, wrote:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-churc...ry?id=50958603



from your link:
 "As he exited the church, a local resident grabbed his
rifle and engaged that suspect, Martin said. "The suspect
dropped his rifle -- which was a Rueger AR assault-type
rifle -- and fled from the church. Our local citizen
pursued the suspect at that time."

The suspect, who fled in a car, crashed and was later
found dead in his vehicle in Guadalupe County, according
to authorities. It's unclear whether he died from a
self-inflicted gunshot wound or whether he was shot by
another person, officials said.

Interrupted by an armed citizen.
Ruger is spelled wrong.
An AR is a semi - not a Sturmgewehr.

Idiot was prohibited from possessing a firearm, in
addition to several and various other illegal acts.

You're focusing on minutae. Step back and look at the
problem. And don't pretend that mass shootings in America
are not a problem.

How long was Kelley in the church? How many rounds did he
fire? Why does anyone really need to fire more than about
ten rounds in one minute, except to commit a mass killing?

Are you a "good guy with a gun" fan? If Kelley had been
restricted to something like one shot every five seconds,
some "good guy with a gun" might have had a chance to stop
him. Of course, that requires someone to carry a
self-defense weapon into a country church on a Sunday
morning. That situation alone is despicable.

Why should a private citizen be allowed to buy a rifle with
many features designed ONLY for killing human beings and
doing it rapidly? Why should such guns be for sale on the
open market?

Will gun nuts continue to pretend the Founders' "well
regulated militia" includes a mass murderer of churchgoers?



Updates this morning-

Church included among its members the idiot's inlaws. They
were not there yet, arrived later.

A plumber with no formal training grabbed his rifle,
returned fire immediately then flagged a passing car to
pursue said idiot.

You can't outlaw mental illness or stupidity or rage but
the survivors appreciate that he was driven off and then
stopped. Too bad Mr Plumber wasn't a minute quicker.


Apparently even if you outlaw selling weapons to felons that
doesn't work either.

Hard to see how Mr Plumber is ever going to be there in time
unless he has his loaded weapon in the church with him and
sees Mr Asshole pulling his.

These arguments against gun control keep happening and mass
killings aren't slowing down.

I rarely agree with Frank but I'm not seeing how some
asshole's "right" to have weapons of mass murder supersedes
my right to not be shot sitting in a church on a Sunday
morning. Thank god I'm an atheist.


He's a prohibited felon but ATF passed him in 2016.
So much for ' enlightened rule by experts '.

So, if there is an uncontrollable error rate at the federal level, then you limit the available weapon types at the stores. It's like training bartenders to identify visibly intoxicated patrons. If you are some basement dwelling maggot with a scary Facebook page and a criminal history (something easily checked on a state database), then your gun choices a (1) Ruger .22 LR with five shot mag. and a bad OE scope, (2) a double barrel .410 shotgun. That will give you more fire power than the Founding Fathers and satisfy Second Amendment fundamental-rights analysis and reduce blood-baths, unless you're a squirrel. Plan "B" is an MMPI at the place of purchase, in-person interview with two priests, a rabbi and a wise old grandmother. "I know what you intend to do with that, honey." And then you still keep the mag to, say, 10 -- or even six. Cowboys and cops got by with six for years. Founding fathers were lucky to get one shot reliably.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 11/6/2017 11:03 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/6/2017 9:36 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/6/2017 9:31 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/6/2017 8:23 AM, wrote:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-churc...ry?id=50958603



from your link:
Â* "As he exited the church, a local resident grabbed his
rifle and engaged that suspect, Martin said. "The suspect
dropped his rifle -- which was a Rueger AR assault-type
rifle -- and fled from the church. Our local citizen
pursued the suspect at that time."

The suspect, who fled in a car, crashed and was later
found dead in his vehicle in Guadalupe County, according
to authorities. It's unclear whether he died from a
self-inflicted gunshot wound or whether he was shot by
another person, officials said.

Interrupted by an armed citizen.
Ruger is spelled wrong.
An AR is a semi - not a Sturmgewehr.

Idiot was prohibited from possessing a firearm, in
addition to several and various other illegal acts.

You're focusing on minutae. Step back and look at the
problem. And don't pretend that mass shootings in America
are not a problem.

How long was Kelley in the church? How many rounds did he
fire? Why does anyone really need to fire more than about
ten rounds in one minute, except to commit a mass killing?

Are you a "good guy with a gun" fan? If Kelley had been
restricted to something like one shot every five seconds,
some "good guy with a gun" might have had a chance to stop
him. Of course, that requires someone to carry a
self-defense weapon into a country church on a Sunday
morning. That situation alone is despicable.

Why should a private citizen be allowed to buy a rifle with
many features designed ONLY for killing human beings and
doing it rapidly? Why should such guns be for sale on the
open market?

Will gun nuts continue to pretend the Founders' "well
regulated militia" includes a mass murderer of churchgoers?



Updates this morning-

Church included among its members the idiot's inlaws. They were not
there yet, arrived later.

A plumber with no formal training grabbed his rifle, returned fire
immediately then flagged a passing car to pursue said idiot.

Sorry, that's not exactly what I'm reading.

"Tackitt said the gunman entered from the back of the church, fired all
the way to the front of the church, and then fired on his way back out
of the church. He had time to reload several times, Tackitt said."

"As the gunman 'exited the church, a local resident grabbed his rifle
and engaged that suspect,' Freeman Martin of the Texas Department of
Public Safety said."

In other words, Kelley had done what he wanted to do. He'd already
walked through the church and killed as many as he could, and it sounds
like he was leaving. So the guy with the rifle was probably responsible
for Kelley dying, but he probably didn't prevent any more churchgoer
deaths.

You can't outlaw mental illness or stupidity or rage but the survivors
appreciate that he was driven off and then stopped. Too bad Mr Plumber
wasn't a minute quicker.

Too bad Kelley didn't have to reload after every shot. Then Mr. Plumber
could have probably saved at least a dozen people.

But I'm sure there are gun nuts out there right now, salivating over the
efficiency of Kelley's semi-auto fire. "Wow, killing over two dozen in
just a couple minutes! I wonder if I can do better?"


--
- Frank Krygowski