Is Lemond right on the science?

Correct me if I am wrong but Lemond is basically saying that there is
a strong correleation between someone's VO2 and there wattage under
normal conditions and when someone dopes the VO2 stays the same but
the wattage increases (out of range)

Where's Andy Coggan? He knows this **** inside out.

Anton Berlin wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong but Lemond is basically saying that there is
a strong correleation between someone's VO2 and there wattage under
normal conditions and when someone dopes the VO2 stays the same but
the wattage increases (out of range)

Where's Andy Coggan? He knows this **** inside out.

http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/coyle.png

On Jun 11, 11:07*am, "Robert Chung"
wrote:
Anton Berlin wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong but Lemond is basically saying that there is
a strong correleation between someone's VO2 and there wattage under
normal conditions and when someone dopes the VO2 stays the same but
the wattage increases (out of range)

Where's Andy Coggan? *He knows this **** inside out.

http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/coyle.png

I've glanced at that data before, but didn't really comprehend it. The
clear lack of any correlation of specific oxygen update (the ml/kg/min
data) to power output is striking, especially in contrast to the raw
oxygen update correlation (where the correlation is expected, assuming
relatively constant efficiency).

I'd be really interested in hearing Andy's interpretation of this
data. My layman's view is that the missing factor in the correlations
is the sustained blood lactate levels. My guess/intuition/whatever is
that the guys with high specific VO2max (e.g. those at 74 ml/kg/min)
who have low sustained 1 hr avg watts levels have significantly lower
blood lactate levels than guys with similar specific VO2max who are
putting out more watts. It was my observation when working with
athletes that some people (e.g. good pursuiters) were capable of
tolerating ridiculously high lactate levels, far in excess of what
you'd expect. I ran into a number of athletes with very high specific
VO2max who also couldn't tolerate high lactate levels. These were the
"diesel" kind of climbers who really got uncomfortable when the pace
started to yo-yo, and were often great at TT's but not so great at
doing sprint leadouts and such.

Brad Anders

Anton Berlin wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong but Lemond is basically saying that there is
a strong correleation between someone's VO2 and there wattage under
normal conditions and when someone dopes the VO2 stays the same but
the wattage increases (out of range)

Where's Andy Coggan? He knows this **** inside out.

Coggan's already beat this idea to a bloody paste numerous times. Why
does he need to do it again?

Anton Berlin wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong but Lemond is basically saying that there is
a strong correleation between someone's VO2 and there wattage under
normal conditions and when someone dopes the VO2 stays the same but
the wattage increases (out of range)

Where's Andy Coggan? He knows this **** inside out.

Dude, leave Armstrong alone. He did what he did with a VO2 max of 82-83
and hard work. But, what will Kristin say under oath?

BL

MrVidmar wrote:
Anton Berlin wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong but Lemond is basically saying that there is
a strong correleation between someone's VO2 and there wattage under
normal conditions and when someone dopes the VO2 stays the same but
the wattage increases (out of range)

Where's Andy Coggan? He knows this **** inside out.

Dude, leave Armstrong alone. He did what he did with a VO2 max of 82-83
and hard work. But, what will Kristin say under oath?

BL

It's good to see you building form for July. Should be a great Tour.

Bob Schwartz

On Jun 11, 3:07 pm, MrVidmar wrote:
Anton Berlin wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong but Lemond is basically saying that there is
a strong correleation between someone's VO2 and there wattage under
normal conditions and when someone dopes the VO2 stays the same but
the wattage increases (out of range)

Where's Andy Coggan? He knows this **** inside out.

Dude, leave Armstrong alone. He did what he did with a VO2 max of 82-83
and hard work. But, what will Kristin say under oath?

BL

Silly boy. Kristin will testify in a manner that guarantees the
financial security of Kristin and her kids.

"Anton Berlin" wrote in message
...
Correct me if I am wrong but Lemond is basically saying that there is
a strong correleation between someone's VO2 and there wattage under
normal conditions and when someone dopes the VO2 stays the same but
the wattage increases (out of range)

Where's Andy Coggan? He knows this **** inside out.

Greg brings new meaning to the term "reverse engineering." There seems
to be no possible reason for Greg not winning every single race he
entered except for external evil forces in the universe. His mission is
to spend his life not savoring his incredible victories but rather
analyze how he was cheated out of what he deserved.

For me, this was what put me over the edge (from Cyclingnews.com
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...n09/jun10news2)

"What I've watched for the past 15 years has been almost robotic racing.
I used to gasp for air and had to think about when I could take a sip of
water - my sport drink - I'd try and time it for a flat section on the
switchback of a climb," said LeMond. "[Now] I see people talking on the
'phone' [radio] riding a climb at the front of the Tour de France. For
me it's surreal - I don't recognise the sport anymore."

This from the same guy who's famous for saying "It doesn't get easier,
you just go faster."

I can't be the only person who doesn't see the inconsistency there.
There is nothing about doping that makes racing easier, if competitive
forces are at play. You just go faster. Being able to talk on the radio
instead of being gassed to the gills has nothing to do with doping, and
everything to do with the way racing plays out now, with strategies that
seek to minimize expenditure whenever possible, never pushing beyond
what can be sustained (or recovered from) unless tactically required.
Certainly there are times in modern racing when a top level racer has
lungs that scream for every last molecule of air they can get.

What LeMond refers to here is all about tactics and radio, and has
nothing whatsoever to do with doping. Unless he's trying to make a case
that people are less competitive now, and sorry, I don't buy the idea
that doping makes people want to win less. Total baloney.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"What I've watched for the past 15 years has been almost robotic
racing. I used to gasp for air and had to think about when I could
take a sip of water - my sport drink - I'd try and time it for a flat
section on the switchback of a climb," said LeMond. "[Now] I see
people talking on the 'phone' [radio] riding a climb at the front of
the Tour de France. For me it's surreal - I don't recognise the sport
anymore."

This from the same guy who's famous for saying "It doesn't get easier,
you just go faster."

I can't be the only person who doesn't see the inconsistency there.

Er, maybe I am. I meant to say, I can't be the only person who sees the
inconsistency there. DOH!

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
"What I've watched for the past 15 years has been almost robotic
racing. I used to gasp for air and had to think about when I could
take a sip of water - my sport drink - I'd try and time it for a flat
section on the switchback of a climb," said LeMond. "[Now] I see
people talking on the 'phone' [radio] riding a climb at the front of
the Tour de France. For me it's surreal - I don't recognise the sport
anymore."

This from the same guy who's famous for saying "It doesn't get easier,
you just go faster."

I can't be the only person who doesn't see the inconsistency there.

Er, maybe I am. I meant to say, I can't be the only person who sees the
inconsistency there. DOH!

Glad to see I'm not the only one who didn't understand what you
unintentionally said.