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Are helmets saving lives?



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 17th 12, 06:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
atriage[_6_]
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Default Are helmets saving lives?

On 17/02/2012 16:35, Davey Crockett wrote:
Davey Crockett
**** Micro$oft
Use Gnu/Linux
Use Apple

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You cannot be ****ing serious...APPLE...teh arch exploiters of the poor and
oppressed!

--


Ads
  #12  
Old February 17th 12, 06:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
atriage[_6_]
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Default Are helmets saving lives?

On 17/02/2012 16:39, --D-y wrote:

I really hate this "Red Badge of Courage" bull**** when applied to
bike racing. It certainly was not the way I was taught, where the
emphasis was directly on not causing or being caught up in crashes.
Most bike racing crashes at the amateur level are stupid and avoidable
and that's why smart riders and smart coaches do what they can to
limit crashes to the maximum extent possible.


Indeed, always ride at the front(ish) to avoid the stacks Eddie said. Of course
you need better legs than mine to take this advice.


--


  #13  
Old February 17th 12, 07:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Ryan Cousineau
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Default Are helmets saving lives?

On Feb 16, 4:24*pm, "Fred on a stick"
wrote:
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/blog...e/6409714/Will...


Article answer: probably not, and a pox on Rebecca Oaten for
stubbornly clinging to her support of the NZ helmet law she advocated
into enactment, despite evidence its main effect was to convince NZers
to stop riding bicycles.


Counterpoint: the law is working as intended.


What a coincidence. We were just discussing this on the rbr Topica list.


You've contaminated the experiment! But not fatally. I'd say your
hypothesis has been vindicated, and I would like to thank our
volunteers for their contribution to science.
  #14  
Old February 17th 12, 07:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Ryan Cousineau
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Default Are helmets saving lives?

On Feb 17, 9:33*am, atriage wrote:
On 17/02/2012 16:39, --D-y wrote:

I really hate this "Red Badge of Courage" bull**** when applied to
bike racing. It certainly was not the way I was taught, where the
emphasis was directly on not causing or being caught up in crashes.
Most bike racing crashes at the amateur level are stupid and avoidable
and that's why smart riders and smart coaches do what they can to
limit crashes to the maximum extent possible.


Indeed, always ride at the front(ish) to avoid the stacks Eddie said. Of course
you need better legs than mine to take this advice.

--


I've had the opportunity to observe our Friday night track races for a
few months now, which means either watching or participating in 9-12
short, sharp races a night, in three ability categories, on a 200m
velodrome (the club mandates 4.5 hours of training for new riders
before they are allowed to drop in on open track sessions, and another
1.5 hour learn-to-race course before you can enter novice racing). My
impression is that the faster, smarter, more experienced groups do
indeed have better skills and more confidence, but they mostly use
that ability up by riding closer to the margins: generally leaving
smaller gaps and riding more aggressively in every way possible. The
incident rate for the "A" group seems about the same as that for the
novice group.

Just speaking of last week, it was a guy in the "C" group who was
warned for moving up-track without looking, but it was an "A" rider
who mourned his toasted front wheel after another rider made contact
with him ("A" rider didn't fall down; I don't know if the contact was
foot/pedal in the spokes or just a wheel-to-wheel hit, but several
spokes pulled out of his deep aluminum rim. He made it safely to the
infield for a bike change and returned to the race).
  #15  
Old February 17th 12, 10:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Simply Fred
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Default Are helmets saving lives?

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
You've contaminated the experiment! But not fatally. I'd say your
hypothesis has been vindicated, and I would like to thank our
volunteers for their contribution to science.


Presumably the experiment involved samples of triathletes riding with
and without helmets. There was probably no necessity to induce crashes,
although it would add to the entertainment value.
  #16  
Old February 17th 12, 10:19 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Frederick the Great
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Default Are helmets saving lives?

In article , JQ wrote:

On 2/16/2012 7:24 PM, Fred on a stick wrote:
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/blog...-cyclists-life

Article answer: probably not, and a pox on Rebecca Oaten for
stubbornly clinging to her support of the NZ helmet law she advocated
into enactment, despite evidence its main effect was to convince NZers
to stop riding bicycles.

Counterpoint: the law is working as intended.

What a coincidence. We were just discussing this on the rbr Topica list.

I think helmets


Talk to the hand. I am not listening.

--
Old Fritz
  #17  
Old February 17th 12, 10:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Michael Press
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Posts: 9,202
Default Are helmets saving lives?

In article ,
Davey Crockett wrote:

dave a a écrit profondement:

| On 2/17/2012 4:40 AM, Davey Crockett wrote:

| --
| Blackwater changed it's name to Xe-Services
| Monsanto bought Xe out Lock, Stock and Barrel
| Gates increased his holdings in Monsanto from "Minor" to "Significant"
| What does Gates need with a Private Army?

| Is your fact checker broken?


No, check it out for yourself

Davey doesn't lie like the BBC, Fox News, Guardian, Times, New York
Times, Washington Post, Il Messaggero, Corriere della Sera, Le Parisien
or La Tribune.

Davey gives you the straight goods.

Monsanto Now Owns Blackwater (Xe)


Please, sir, may I have the helmet war instead?

--
Michael Press
  #18  
Old February 18th 12, 02:32 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
--D-y
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Posts: 1,179
Default Are helmets saving lives?

On Feb 17, 11:33*am, atriage wrote:
On 17/02/2012 16:39, --D-y wrote:

I really hate this "Red Badge of Courage" bull**** when applied to
bike racing. It certainly was not the way I was taught, where the
emphasis was directly on not causing or being caught up in crashes.
Most bike racing crashes at the amateur level are stupid and avoidable
and that's why smart riders and smart coaches do what they can to
limit crashes to the maximum extent possible.


Indeed, always ride at the front(ish) to avoid the stacks Eddie said. Of course
you need better legs than mine to take this advice.


It's the manic drive to "get to the front" that often figures into the
incidence of crashes, ironically.
I don't claim to be a paragon but I try to be a reliable, safe wheel
and it sure can be done. As opposed to riding like a clueless idiot.

I've seen pre-race "stern lectures" have a great calming effect. I've
also seen people take insane risks on blind corners and hills IRT
oncoming traffic, and (for instance) on a regular basis in the late
lamented Tuesday Nighter at Nuchols Crossing in Austin TX. "Public
roads at the end of rush hour" and it's amazing that no one was
killed; I did see a few very close calls. Risking it all for nothing,
either prizes (there weren't any) or "race finish" since the line was
often (from the location of the usual offences) literally miles away,
with lots of straight, open road available to move up, attack what-
ever. DUH

(As I was taught, early on) even the best blow it out their wazoo from
time to time and you have to be ready and able to cover their
mistakes, if only (first and foremost) to save your own hide.

Don't count on that helmet for anything except preventing sunburn, and
the mostly-air "racing" models aren't so great at that, either.
--D-y
  #19  
Old February 18th 12, 06:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Fredmaster of Brainerd
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Posts: 620
Default Are helmets saving lives?

On Feb 17, 11:23*am, Ryan Cousineau wrote:
My
impression is that the faster, smarter, more experienced groups do
indeed have better skills and more confidence, but they mostly use
that ability up by riding closer to the margins: generally leaving
smaller gaps and riding more aggressively in every way possible. The
incident rate for the "A" group seems about the same as that for the
novice group.


Risk compensation, or risk homeostasis.

Holy crap, an example of risk homeostasis that
_doesn't_ involve helmets!

Fredmaster Ben

  #20  
Old February 18th 12, 06:48 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Fredmaster of Brainerd
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Posts: 620
Default Are helmets saving lives?

On Feb 17, 11:12*am, Ryan Cousineau wrote:
On Feb 16, 4:24*pm, "Fred on a stick"
wrote:

What a coincidence. We were just discussing this on the rbr Topica list..


You've contaminated the experiment! But not fatally. I'd say your
hypothesis has been vindicated, and I would like to thank our
volunteers for their contribution to science.


Kunich, thou shouldst be posting at this hour!

Fredmaster Ben
 




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