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#11
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Agreed: LeMond was the greatest
On Feb 25, 8:17*pm, "Dave Lee" wrote:
"--D-y" *wrote in message ... I'll try again. When did "now" start? I mean, what happened-- IF ANYTHING-- to start a "new 'now'", or whatever it is that the OP might possibly be referencing? Since there was no answer from the OP, I can only guess that there wasn't some event, happening, court finding, etc. etc. that might have somehow changed Greg Lemond's "ugliest loser" status. IOW, for example: despite the howling from some quarters, the expected (in some quarters) legal prosecution of Lance Armstrong et al. was dropped. That's the latest news I remember seeing. I could have easily missed some sort of news or "intelligence" regarding, for example, the drive (from some quarters) to take one or more of Lance Armstrong's Tour de France victories away from him. That's the only way Greg Lemond is going to somehow climb back up to the top of the "America's Greatest Tour Rider" ladder. Not forgetting for a New York second that Greg Lemond fit the "doper profile", himself. Did that help with your "duh" problem? --D-y The post above attempting to make the concept of 'now' something requiring an explanation speaks for itself and I have nothing to add. You didn't have anything to add except "duh"-- remember? Kind of like pretending something had happened to re-elevate a former "hero" to his former (old, old history) "greatest whatever" status. Before he became the Greatest Ever Alcoholic Whiner Hypocrite and dupe of the "drug crusaders" in the Press. Which IMHO was real "duh". "Hey, let's get that rummy up there in front of the cameras and get him going! This should be good!". --D-y |
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#12
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Agreed: LeMond was the greatest
Let's get real here. With 7 tour de frances and sevaral classic wins
there is no comparison to Greg Lemond. Despite 3 tdf wins Greg never won a classic in his career. One can argue that the won World road championhip, but that is technically not a classic. On Feb 24, 11:22*am, cicero venatio wrote: Can we all agree now that Greg LeMond was America's greatest Tour rider? |
#13
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Agreed: LeMond was the greatest
On Feb 26, 8:52*pm, Randall wrote:
Let's get real here. With 7 tour de frances and sevaral classic wins there is no comparison to Greg Lemond. Despite 3 tdf wins Greg never won a classic in his career. One can argue that the won World road championhip, but that is technically not a classic. And Lemond did have 2 WRC's, but LA had 1. DR |
#14
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Agreed: LeMond was the greatest
On Feb 26, 8:37*pm, DirtRoadie wrote:
On Feb 26, 8:52*pm, Randall wrote: Let's get real here. With 7 tour de frances and sevaral classic wins there is no comparison to Greg Lemond. Despite 3 tdf wins Greg never won a classic in his career. One can argue that the won World road championhip, but that is technically not a classic. Yes that's true, you cannot compare World Championship to the major classics. The world championships does not relationship to to who is doing well that season. Sean Kelly dominated the classics and never won the world road championships. And Lemond did have 2 WRC's, *but LA had 1. DR |
#15
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Agreed: LeMond was the greatest
On Feb 26, 9:52*pm, Randall wrote:
Let's get real here. With 7 tour de frances and sevaral classic wins there is no comparison to Greg Lemond. Despite 3 tdf wins Greg never won a classic in his career. One can argue that the won World road championhip, but that is technically not a classic. No Classics for Lance, either. Fleche Wallone, GP San Sebastian is as close as he got. Or, if you want to differentiate between "Classics" and "Monuments", fine, and FW and San Sebastian can be included. Point being, Greg could have kept his status as revered pioneer, and far ahead of George Mount or Boyer. And "beating Hinault at his own game", maybe. Too bad. (He fit the doper profile. Which might have been forgotten in the light of his true accomplishments on the bike.) Sauce for the goose... --D-y |
#16
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Agreed: LeMond was the greatest
On Feb 27, 8:11*am, --D-y wrote:
No Classics for Lance, either. Fleche Wallone, GP San Sebastian is as close as he got. Or, if you want to differentiate between "Classics" and "Monuments", fine, and FW and San Sebastian can be included. There are eight "orthodox" classics: the five monuments, the Flèche Wallone, Paris-Bruxelles, and Paris-Tours. Clasica San Sebastian only counts in the most unorthodox of definitions. Any looser and we'd have to include the Thrift Drug Classic and the Nevada City Classic, wins at both ends of LANCE!s career. So as of *now*, LANCE! is America's Greatest Classics Rider - loosely defined or not. |
#17
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Agreed: LeMond was the greatest
On Feb 27, 4:42*pm, Geraard Spergen wrote:
On Feb 27, 8:11*am, --D-y wrote: No Classics for Lance, either. Fleche Wallone, GP San Sebastian is as close as he got. Or, if you want to differentiate between "Classics" and "Monuments", fine, and FW and San Sebastian can be included. There are eight "orthodox" classics: the five monuments, the Flèche Wallone, Paris-Bruxelles, and Paris-Tours. Clasica San Sebastian only counts in the most unorthodox of definitions. *Any looser and we'd have to include the Thrift Drug Classic and the Nevada City Classic, wins at both ends of LANCE!s career. *So as of *now*, LANCE! is America's Greatest Classics Rider - loosely defined or not. Thank you. Dang. LA is both best Tour (de France) rider *and* the best Classics rider. At least Greg won more at Nevada City. It's something. --D-y |
#18
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Agreed: LeMond was the greatest
On Feb 27, 4:47*pm, --D-y wrote:
Thank you. Dang. LA is both best Tour (de France) rider *and* the best Classics rider. At least Greg won more at Nevada City. It's something. --D-y- Hide quoted text - He's a virtual third to Hincapie in the Classics competition of Americans. |
#19
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Agreed: LeMond was the greatest
On Feb 27, 6:52*pm, Geraard Spergen wrote:
On Feb 27, 4:47*pm, --D-y wrote: Thank you. Dang. LA is both best Tour (de France) rider *and* the best Classics rider. At least Greg won more at Nevada City. It's something. --D-y- Hide quoted text - He's a virtual third to Hincapie in the Classics competition of Americans. That virtual thing really hurt Greg. Bad. He was a hero and a pioneer. If he'd had anything approaching Armstrong's drive to win, who knows what he might have *really* accomplished. --D-y |
#20
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Agreed: LeMond was the greatest
On Feb 27, 8:34*pm, --D-y wrote:
On Feb 27, 6:52*pm, Geraard Spergen wrote: On Feb 27, 4:47*pm, --D-y wrote: Thank you. Dang. LA is both best Tour (de France) rider *and* the best Classics rider. At least Greg won more at Nevada City. It's something. --D-y- Hide quoted text - He's a virtual third to Hincapie in the Classics competition of Americans. That virtual thing really hurt Greg. Bad. He was a hero and a pioneer. If he'd had anything approaching Armstrong's drive to win, who knows what he might have *really* accomplished. The "virtual win" thing is overblown by the bright lights here in rbr. Greg gave an interview or two in which he speculated that, given the right team dynamics at the start of his career, and better muzzle discipline by his brother-in-law during the middle, he would have won more. DUH! Admittedly, there's an "if 'ifs and buts' were fruits and nuts..." quality to the argument (and everyone from Bartali to Merckx to Contador has an excuse for why circumstance and misfortune reduced their potential victories), but so what? "Hurt" Greg's reputation. As if. Running up against Lance, both in what he said and through the Trek/Lemond thing has hurt him magnitudes more, both reputationally and financially. And does anyone doubt that Greg is, fundamentally, _right_ most of the time? Yes, the occasional gym-teacher "pas naturellement" argument and demented public speaking engagement have been awful, but about the big things, the things that actually did hurt his reputation, he's almost certainly right. So that leaves rbr received wisdom holding up pathetic "I don't like the way he said it" arguments that, given the typical level of discourse on rbr, are bat**** insane. Also, in the real world, once you object to the way someone says something you don't like? It's not them, it's you*. *This isn't to say that rhetoricians should actually say it that way. Choosing an alienating rhetorical tone is also stupid, unless you don't actually care about convincing others. Full disclosu sometimes I get to a certain level of wading into some angry dumbass rant that may have a kernel of truth to it, and I get...tired. Those who would convince others should try to make their arguments good and compelling. A lot of arguing (especially here in rbr**) is not done to convince the doubtful or opposing. At best, it's about comforting the like-minded, which is simply sad. **rbr has the virtuous tendency to argue in bad faith for the purpose of lulz. I can respect that, sort of. |
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