Development of the the wire-spoked wheel

Hello.

I was browsing some old threads on Google Groups last night,
in particular, one very long and acrimonious thread
"snaping spokes".

The bulk of the discussion covered ideas which have been
done to death several times in RBT,but a message by Leo Lichtman
caught my eye. He wrote concerning the likely evolutionary
path from wooden wagon wheels with bulky spokes, to the
modern wire spoked wheel:

---------------------------------

wrote:
(clip) I can't figure out an intermediate
step between stiff wooden spokes compressed by a shrunk-on iron band
andwire spokes in tension.(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Carl, these are the steps I can visualize, although I cannot cite
historical
examples, and I don't really know whether they ever existed:
1.) Wooden wheel, with wooden compression spokes.
2.) Cast iron wheel with solid web, or heavy compression spokes.
3.) Cast iron wheel with light compression spokes, and limited
durability.
4,) Steel wheel with steel spokes--stronger and lighter than cast
iron
wheel. Insight that the upper spokes are carrying tension.
5.) Steel wheel with thin spokes, in which both compression and
tension are
developed.
6.) Wheel with wire spokes.

---------------------------------

It caught my eye because I'd been dipping into "Structures"* by J.E.
Gordon, which if you've never heard of it, is a light hearted and
non-rigorous / low-on-maths introduction to the science of structures.

In one section, Gordon notes that early flying (well, gliding) pioneer
Sir George Cayley developed "tension wheels" for the undercarriage of
his contraptions in order to reduce their overall weight.

Have a look at: http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/cayley.html
and scroll down for a sketch of Cayley's tension wheel. Paired spokes!

I'm uncertain whether Gordon is saying that the "tension wheel" was an
innovation in early flying craft, or that it was an innovation in
itself, and I can't turn up any specific dates regarding Cayley's
wheel, so I don't have any idea how this fits (if it fits at all) into
the timeline of bicycle development.

Hope this is of interest, however...

*Caveat: I doubt that Gordon's book is intended to be a definitive
reference of any kind!

On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 07:30:51 +0100,
wrote:

Hello.

I was browsing some old threads on Google Groups last night,
in particular, one very long and acrimonious thread
"snaping spokes".

The bulk of the discussion covered ideas which have been
done to death several times in RBT,but a message by Leo Lichtman
caught my eye. He wrote concerning the likely evolutionary
path from wooden wagon wheels with bulky spokes, to the
modern wire spoked wheel:

---------------------------------

wrote:
(clip) I can't figure out an intermediate
step between stiff wooden spokes compressed by a shrunk-on iron band
andwire spokes in tension.(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Carl, these are the steps I can visualize, although I cannot cite
historical
examples, and I don't really know whether they ever existed:
1.) Wooden wheel, with wooden compression spokes.
2.) Cast iron wheel with solid web, or heavy compression spokes.
3.) Cast iron wheel with light compression spokes, and limited
durability.
4,) Steel wheel with steel spokes--stronger and lighter than cast
iron
wheel. Insight that the upper spokes are carrying tension.
5.) Steel wheel with thin spokes, in which both compression and
tension are
developed.
6.) Wheel with wire spokes.

---------------------------------

It caught my eye because I'd been dipping into "Structures"* by J.E.
Gordon, which if you've never heard of it, is a light hearted and
non-rigorous / low-on-maths introduction to the science of structures.

In one section, Gordon notes that early flying (well, gliding) pioneer
Sir George Cayley developed "tension wheels" for the undercarriage of
his contraptions in order to reduce their overall weight.

Have a look at: http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/cayley.html
and scroll down for a sketch of Cayley's tension wheel. Paired spokes!

I'm uncertain whether Gordon is saying that the "tension wheel" was an
innovation in early flying craft, or that it was an innovation in
itself, and I can't turn up any specific dates regarding Cayley's
wheel, so I don't have any idea how this fits (if it fits at all) into
the timeline of bicycle development.

Hope this is of interest, however...

*Caveat: I doubt that Gordon's book is intended to be a definitive
reference of any kind!

Dear Victor,

Nice!

A quick Google for Cayley and wheels soon turns up details.
The spokes were strings (like our modern Kevlar emergency
spokes) and the good Baron was 79 when he put them together
in 1853:

http://www.ba-education.demon.co.uk/...rstflight.html

So at least in this case, it appears that the jump was from
prosaic solid-spoke wheels to string-tension wheels with no
intermediate step.

Elsewhere, he's mentioned as the inventor of the
bicycle-style wheel, though I don't know how solid this
claim is.

One advantage of Sir George's string-spoked wheels is that
they avoid the question of stress-relief.

Thanks for noticing these wheels and mentioning them,

Carl Fogel

said the following, on 07/20/05 03:01:
On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 07:30:51 +0100,
wrote:


Hello.


[snip]
It caught my eye because I'd been dipping into "Structures"* by J.E.
Gordon, which if you've never heard of it, is a light hearted and
non-rigorous / low-on-maths introduction to the science of structures.

In one section, Gordon notes that early flying (well, gliding) pioneer
Sir George Cayley developed "tension wheels" for the undercarriage of
his contraptions in order to reduce their overall weight.

Have a look at: http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/cayley.html
and scroll down for a sketch of Cayley's tension wheel. Paired spokes!

[snip]


A quick Google for Cayley and wheels soon turns up details.
The spokes were strings (like our modern Kevlar emergency
spokes) and the good Baron was 79 when he put them together
in 1853:

http://www.ba-education.demon.co.uk/...rstflight.html

[snip]

One advantage of Sir George's string-spoked wheels is that
they avoid the question of stress-relief.


They can't be tied and soldered, either. ;-)

--
Rich Gibbs

"You can observe a lot by watching." -- Yogi Berra

when you get to the fork in the road, take it -- Yogi Berra

there are other beds from which the spokes might spring into cayles
vision-
clocks, architecture, eg bridge work, jewelry? cloth! weaving.
several good histories of industry and science might do it.
a large part is oil-fossil oil not fish oil produces shaped hard steels
for cutting moving away from cast steels' perspectives,
an interesting bounce-is this "we gotta do it" or a flight of
imagination.
looking at the equipment-golly gee one boggles at the chasm between
cayle and langley. something not lost on the wright bro.
two more of interest-south americans never developed the wheel i hear
and in the last run at lemans, the big healy finished 5th-on wires or
not?

"(PeteCresswell)" wrote: (clip)the hub doesn't hang on the spokes. (clip)
Seems like the fact of string spokes settles that once and for all...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Settles it which way? Are you thinking that because string can't be
compressed, the loads must all be in tension, in the upper spokes? Well,
wire spokes won't stand up in compression either. It is the superposition
of a tensile field on all the spokes which makes the system work. The
spokes are all in tension--whether they are wire or string.

The idea of "compression" on the lower spokes is largely a semantic
question. If you have an easy time visualizing the superposition of two
force fields, then "compression" may make your thinking easier. If you have
trouble with that, then abandon it, and just talk about the variation in
tension in the spokes for different angles. The result (resultant) will be
the same.

Per :
string-tension wheels

Sometime last year in another thread I read an engineer's perspective that the
hub doesn't hang on the spokes. Seemed counter-intuitive to me at the time,
but I'm no engineer.

Seems like the fact of string spokes settles that once and for all...
--
PeteCresswell

http://whatis.techtarget.com/definit...341236,00.html

sounds like trueing on sunday night

i'm rumbling over the london terrorism via birdy predicts quake at
groups sci.geo.earthquake and the golden (also nasa's golden as
syncrownous or time convergent) bear, an example?, at
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1901...670658-8930330
an analogy sprung out-colonial thought v terrorism and cayley's time
and supposed worldview deeply cast in a cast iron era but producing
capable flight designs. Interesting man- i go for the textiles plus
bridge. I am not a historian, thinking about cayley's time doesn't
bring forth images of lightness and grace.

lilienthal-

Birdflight as the basis of aviation :
a contribution towards a system of aviation, compiled from the results
of numerous experiments made by O. and G. Lilienthal /
Otto Lilienthal
2001 Markowski ed.
English Book xxiv, 151 p. : ill. ; 23 cm.
Hummelstown, PA : Markowski International Pub., ; ISBN: 0938716581

otto was a window of opportunity creature of baltic dunes
wrights of the bicycle manufacture and moving cycle gliding birdwing
observation
while langley...?

wrote:
http://whatis.techtarget.com/definit...341236,00.html

sounds like trueing on sunday night

she wore falsies on saturday night

blue velvet