Trolling - Is it unCanadian?

Gee thats interesting because my brother Peter was born in Seattle when
our mom went down to visit our dad who was seconded to Boeing during
WWII and gave birth 3 weeks prematurely. He will be interested to know
he is American.


It's kind of weird--as far as the US is concerned, in theory, you can have
dual citizenship only until you're 18, and then if you decide to become a US
citizen you are obliged to renounce your other citizenship.

That's actually a widespread urban legend. The US has no
requirement for a person with dual citizenship to choose
only one citizenship when he reaches a certain age. Some
other countries do, but the US does not.

Here is the US State Department's website which specifically
states that US law does not require a person to choose
one citizenship or another (2nd paragraph, 2nd sentence).

At one time, the US had a requirement that a child born
abroad and who received dual citizenship, had to return
to the US by a certain age, if he wished to keep his
US citizenship, but that no longer applies either.

However, some
foreign countries won't honor such renunciations (don't know about Canada),

Since it's not required, it's not an issue. If it were required,
then Canada would only honour it, if it were a renunciation
made before Canadian officials and registered with the
government of Canada. A renunciation made before non-Canadian
officials would have no effect under Canadian law.

so as far as they're concerned their citizens remain citizens even after
they've become naturalized Americans.

Very true.


But it's true, if you're born here, the US considers you a citizen until you
decide otherwise.

Also true. The exception being for persons born in the US
to foreign diplomats. They are not considered to be
US citizens, but everyone else is.

Stephen Gallagher

(Stephen Gallagher) wrote in
om:


However, if he did choose to acknowledge
it, he may find that he opens a big can of worms,
depending on his financial situation and how he has
set up his investments.

I can assure you he has no interest in doing that...in fact I will e-
mail him and tell him just to **** him off.

x-no-archive:yes


So, this then is the difference: in the Canadian system, the kids'
post-secondary education is given short shrift. Parents such as
the Ludwigs want their boys to get a college degree. That's the
future of hockey, right there.

Pat in TX (where else?)

So what is this about hockey or school...lots of hockey in Canadian
universities with no basket weaving or communications degrees too.

What I was referring to was the Canadian "junior leagues" set ups where the
young men do not get an advanced education. If I understand it correctly,
they are more or less apprenticed to hockey starting in their early teen
years. Ludwig thinks his sons would be better off with a university
education or else he would put them in "juniors" too. I think that in the
21st Century, more and more parents would agree that a university education
would be a terrific fall-back position than just playing in junior leagues.

Pat in TX

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:19:14 -0500, "Pat" wrote:

x-no-archive:yes


So what is this about hockey or school...lots of hockey in Canadian
universities with no basket weaving or communications degrees too.

What I was referring to was the Canadian "junior leagues" set ups where the
young men do not get an advanced education. If I understand it correctly,
they are more or less apprenticed to hockey starting in their early teen
years. Ludwig thinks his sons would be better off with a university
education or else he would put them in "juniors" too. I think that in the
21st Century, more and more parents would agree that a university education
would be a terrific fall-back position than just playing in junior leagues.

Pat in TX

You have a misconceived notion about the junior leagues in Canada. The
max age is 20 ??? not sure but close. All juniors hockey player in
Ontario are required to attend secondary schools and if needed are
tutored.
The fact is by the time a kid is 18 he knows if he's NHL
material so this lack of advanced education is moot. Those who take
the scholarship route in the US are highly unlikely to make to the
NHL as there hockey skills are usually not good enough to make the
NHL or are so low in the draft that no team will sign. Evidence is
just look at NHL draft and the ages of the kids drafted. BTW Junior
hockey is way more entertaining than US college hockey.
About advanced US education how was it that Dexter Manly
managed to get a degree without being able to read and write.
Lets face it US athletic scholarships are nothing more than factory
mills for the pro teams.
Why are Canadians so good at hockey PASSION it's our nation sport
and we take pride in it. We will never give up if down 10-3 we will
skate our hardest right to the end.

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:19:14 -0500, "Pat" wrote:

You have a misconceived notion about the junior leagues in Canada. The
max age is 20 ??? not sure but close. All juniors hockey player in
Ontario are required to attend secondary schools and if needed are
tutored.

With few exceptions, kids on the road to/in CHL, OHL and QMJHL are poorly
schooled. I've got a few of them in my family! When you're doing hockey 6
nights a week there isn't much room for school. And unfortunately, many
parents condone this behaviour..they always think "He'll only be 20..he can
go back to school.." and maybe some of them do. But most don't I suspect.
They think this is their kid's shot..he's so close. I'm not telling, I'm
just saying. Craig Ludwig is smart enough to understand the odds. Even in
the OHL, one of the more popular sources for NHL players, it's probable only
1 player on a team in a given year will play any significant time in the
NHL. The Canaidan junior leagues are a more sure-fire way to get to the NHL
than American collegiate hockey at this time, but knowing the odds, and
knowing that US collegiate hockey is good enough to produce NHL players
(Paul Kariya, Mike Komisarek, Ron Hainsey, Jay Pandolfo, Brian Rafalski),
I'd certainly push my kids into a US college if I had the opportunity.

OTOH, what's wrong with being an electrician? If the kid loves hockey, and
wants to play the best junior hockey (which is Canadian junior..), maybe
that's not such a bad thing. Not everyone desires to go to college and
become a bean counter.

Cheers,

Scott..

x-no-archive:yes


You have a misconceived notion about the junior leagues in Canada. The
max age is 20 ??? not sure but close. All juniors hockey player in
Ontario are required to attend secondary schools and if needed are
tutored.
The fact is by the time a kid is 18 he knows if he's NHL
material so this lack of advanced education is moot. Those who take
the scholarship route in the US are highly unlikely to make to the
NHL as there hockey skills are usually not good enough to make the
NHL or are so low in the draft that no team will sign. Evidence is
just look at NHL draft and the ages of the kids drafted. BTW Junior
hockey is way more entertaining than US college hockey.
About advanced US education how was it that Dexter Manly
managed to get a degree without being able to read and write.
Lets face it US athletic scholarships are nothing more than factory
mills for the pro teams.
Why are Canadians so good at hockey PASSION it's our nation sport
and we take pride in it. We will never give up if down 10-3 we will
skate our hardest right to the end.

Well, then, how do you explain the parents' wish to make sure their boys
have a college education? How do you explain the drafting of players from
college every single year? Surely the pro scouts know more about it than
you do...

Also, that bull about Dexter Manly was just that--bull! I talked to a guy
who attended elementary school with Dexter and he said that Dexter
absolutely know how to read and write in elementary school but that he was
"playing" the news media and everybody else with his claims so as to seem
sympathetic. You should realize that you've been taken for a ride.

And, if you have proof that "US athletic scholarships are nothing more than
factory mills for the pro teams" then by all means you should go to the
proper authorities and enlighten them so the entire mess could be
straightened up. Oh, no evidence? Just your pro-Canadian bias? How
shocking!

Pat in TX

In article ,
says...
"Pat" wrote in
:


Well, then, how do you explain the parents' wish to make sure
their boys have a college education? How do you explain the
drafting of players from college every single year? Surely the
pro scouts know more about it than you do...

They draft hundreds of players every year including Euro juniors so
they also throw in a handful of US college player, no big deal.

Dexter who?

And, if you have proof that "US athletic scholarships are nothing
more than factory mills for the pro teams" then by all means you
should go to the proper authorities and enlighten them so the
entire mess could be straightened up.

Yeah and why would someone want to straighten it out? Scholarships
are for football and basketball, hockey, played at a couple of dozen
colleges is a no show sport.

Schools have scholarships for a lot more than just football and
basketball. People also get them for fencing, track, soccer, swimming
and other "minor" sports. It all depends on what the college feels is
important in their sports programs.


--
David Kerber
An optimist says "Good morning, Lord." While a pessimist says "Good
Lord, it's morning".

Remove the ns_ from the address before e-mailing.

(snip)
U.S also lets adults acquire
a second citizenship without loosing US citizenship now, too,
something it didn't allow 10-15 years ago.

That's right. (I'm from the US, and I moved to
Canada in 1996. In 2000, I acquired Canadian citizenship,
so now I hold both citizenships). Prior to the early
1990s, the US would have given me much more of an
argument to prove that I did not intend to give up
my US citizenship when I became a Canadian,
and prior to the late 1960s the US would have simply
revoked my US citizenship upon voluntarily acquiring
another citizenship.


At one time, the US had a requirement that a child born
abroad and who received dual citizenship, had to return
to the US by a certain age, if he wished to keep his
US citizenship, but that no longer applies either.

Oh, it is much more complicated than than that. There are
very different rules for children born abroad, depending on
the year they were born, depending whether one or both
parents are american, whether the parent is us born, or
narutalized...

The rules you're referring to are whether a
non-US born child (with US parentage) will
receive US citizenship by descent. They are
very complicated, and do depend on the year
of birth, whether the parents are married,
whether one or both parents are US citizens, etc.

But, I was referring to the fact that in the first
half of the twentieth century, if a child was
born outside the US and if he did receive US
citizenship through his US parent(s), then he
was absolutely required to return to the US
to live for a period of time as an adult, if
he wanted to keep his US citizenship. If he failed
to meet this requirement, his US citizenship was
lost. This requirement to move back to the US,
no longer applies.


Did you know that someone born outside of the US, never living
in the US but is a US citizen because of parents, is required
to file US income tax as well as their canadian income tax?

Yes. The US does follow a policy of taxation of
income based on citizenship. This is very unusual
since the international norm is to apply taxation
based on either residency or on source of income.

So, while a Canadian (or Irish, or Australian) citizen's
worldwide income would only be subject to income tax
in his country of citizenship if he were a resident there
(or if it was generated there), a US citizen's worldwide
income is always subject to US taxation, even if he does
not live in the US and even if the income was not earned
in the US. There are ways to exempt some foreign earned
income from US tax when the US citizen does live outside
the US, and credits to prevent double taxation, but a
timely US tax return must be filed to use this credit/exemption,
even if no US taxes are due. In nearly every other country,
once you become a non-resident, you don't have to report
your worldwide income or pay any tax to them, except on
income earned inside that country.

Stephen Gallagher

**
In your last response above, you presumably said
"Canadian" income tax because you were thinking of
such a person being a resident of Canada......
Obviously, a US citizen would only file a Canadian
return if he "lived" in Canada (likewise he would
follow British filing requirements if he lived in
Britain, Australian if in Australia, etc).