To report of not to report what seems to be a belligerant driver,that is the question (norcal)

I'm in the process of adjusting my riding style on the road. I've
started to take a lane
where there is no bike lane (it's on and off and by my apartment there
is none).

Yesterday riding in the right lane i got honked by some fellow in a
F150 hogsley dudeson
and the sob honked, passed me within a foot or so promptly cutting me
off soon after
only to slow me down a few hundred feet down the road (the prick
apparently
was in a hurry to get into the local 7-eleven).
I promptly reported his licence place to the police desk officer for
the city.
They promised to stop by his house and explain the privilege vs. right
to drive
concept to him.

Later on that sunday i was riding in a more upscale part of the city
(Churchhill&Alma, palo alto). Similar road configuration, four lanes
(two in one direction).
lanes about 8 feet wide, no bike lane. Stopped in the righthand lane
behind some cars,
started pulling off: another impatient prick is honking and passing me
within inches.
Got his licence plate too and wonder if i should report him as a
belligerant driver to PAPD.

In the first case i was moving with the traffic, not terribly slow:
20-25 in a 30 mph zone
so it was clear cut that the guy get reported. In the second case,
well,
while on a bike, i can't match the acceleration of the shiny new metal
and it was
a 35 mph zone. If i were in his place i might've been mildly annoyed
by
a relatively slowly accelerating bike in my path.
On the other hand, the american law seems to be very clear: when
passing bicycles
give 3 feet of clearance no "if"s and "because" and presumably people
buy hyundays santa fe so that they can see a bicycle down the road,
plan
accordingly, and merge from 2nd into 1st lane thus avoiding the whole
issue of
being stuck behind.
If you were in my place would you report the second driver and what do
you typically
do in this situation and/or to avoid such problem in a bikelaneless
config?

SOmeone writes annymously (as he should):

I'm in the process of adjusting my riding style on the road. I've
started to take a lane where there is no bike lane (it's on and off
and by my apartment there is none).

THe reason this is a bad idea is that it clearly says to an
approaching motor vehicle, that you are driveing that vehicle, not
leaving that to that drivers discretion. In a "Blink" that is a
challenge and an isult, whether you see it that way or not.

I find interesting that when people get on their bicycle, they have no
understanding of the emotions and skills of auto drivers, and when
these same bicyclists get in their cars they have no understanding of
the bicyclists perceptions and skills.

In each event the person assumes the pther is stupid and cannot make
reasonable descisions... and this perception is apparent to the
subconcious of the person on whom it is perpetrated.

http://www.amazon.com/Blink-Power-Th...12931&sr= 1-1

http://tinyurl.com/2zlpd6

Jobst Brandt

Someone writes anonymously (as he should):

I'm in the process of adjusting my riding style on the road. I've
started to take a lane where there is no bike lane (it's on and off
and by my apartment there is none).

The reason this is a bad idea is that it clearly says to an
approaching motor vehicle, that you are driving that vehicle, not
leaving that to that drivers discretion. In a "Blink" that is a
challenge and an insult, whether you see it that way or not.

I find interesting that when people get on a bicycle, they have no
understanding of the emotions and skills of auto drivers, and when
these same people get in their cars they have no understanding of the
bicyclists perceptions and skills.

In each event the person assumes the other is stupid and cannot make
reasonable descisions... and this perception is subconsciously apparent
to the person on whom it is perpetrated.

http://www.amazon.com/Blink-Power-Th...ef=pd_bbs_sr_1
?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196712931&sr=1-1

http://tinyurl.com/2zlpd6

Jobst Brandt

On Dec 3, 2:23 pm, wrote:
Someone writes anonymously (as he should):

I'm in the process of adjusting my riding style on the road. I've
started to take a lane where there is no bike lane (it's on and off
and by my apartment there is none).

The reason this is a bad idea is that it clearly says to an
approaching motor vehicle, that you are driving that vehicle, not
leaving that to that drivers discretion. In a "Blink" that is a

as a stanford alumni i;m sure you know exacly how much room
there is for driver's discretion in an 8 foot wide palo alto lane

challenge and an insult, whether you see it that way or not.

noted

I find interesting that when people get on a bicycle, they have no
understanding of the emotions and skills of auto drivers, and when

you are talking about people just got off the boat or swam across the
rio grande,
haven't learned to drive, but bought a $40 bike on a yard sale kind of
thing??? It's common in this area i'm sure

http://www.amazon.com/Blink-Power-Th...316010669/ref=...
?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196712931&sr=1-1

ordered. thanks!

On Dec 3, 7:25 pm, wrote:
I'm in the process of adjusting my riding style on the road. I've
started to take a lane
where there is no bike lane (it's on and off and by my apartment there
is none).

Yesterday riding in the right lane i got honked by some fellow in a
F150 hogsley dudeson
and the sob honked, passed me within a foot or so promptly cutting me
off soon after
only to slow me down a few hundred feet down the road (the prick
apparently
was in a hurry to get into the local 7-eleven).
I promptly reported his licence place to the police desk officer for
the city.
They promised to stop by his house and explain the privilege vs. right
to drive
concept to him.

Later on that sunday i was riding in a more upscale part of the city
(Churchhill&Alma, palo alto). Similar road configuration, four lanes
(two in one direction).
lanes about 8 feet wide, no bike lane. Stopped in the righthand lane
behind some cars,
started pulling off: another impatient prick is honking and passing me
within inches.
Got his licence plate too and wonder if i should report him as a
belligerant driver to PAPD.

In the first case i was moving with the traffic, not terribly slow:
20-25 in a 30 mph zone
so it was clear cut that the guy get reported. In the second case,
well,
while on a bike, i can't match the acceleration of the shiny new metal
and it was
a 35 mph zone. If i were in his place i might've been mildly annoyed
by
a relatively slowly accelerating bike in my path.
On the other hand, the american law seems to be very clear: when
passing bicycles
give 3 feet of clearance no "if"s and "because" and presumably people
buy hyundays santa fe so that they can see a bicycle down the road,
plan
accordingly, and merge from 2nd into 1st lane thus avoiding the whole
issue of
being stuck behind.
If you were in my place would you report the second driver and what do
you typically
do in this situation and/or to avoid such problem in a bikelaneless
config?

Since you live someplace where the cops at least claim to be
interested in doing something about that sort of thing, I'd report the
second driver. Not unreasonable at all. And if this guy is so out of
it that he feels it necessary to honk in that situation, he's probably
an unreasonable guy, and why should you give him any slack?

My riding conditions are a world apart from NorCal, but when I get
honked at by drivers because I am in the road not using the dangerous
bike path, I let it slide. All they see is a guy in the road with a
perfectly good bike path not being used. They think I am obvioulsy a
moron. When I get honked at when I am just riding, depending upon my
mood, I either just wave, or gesture for them to stop to receive their
complimentary beat-down.

One intersesting thing I discovered here is that the DVM has a text
message service where you can text a license plate and they will reply
with the status of the paid fees and when the next inspection is due.
This is I suppose handy. But what is really interesting is it also
includes the name and address of the registered owner.

Joseph

There is also the issue that motorists and cyclists are looking at
things from two different points of view.

A skilled cyclist will do things in traffic that are perfectly safe,
but those things might not look safe to someone inside a steel cage
looking at the scene through a glassed-in frame.

Especially if that person has had no cycling experience or has had bad
cycling experiences.

For example, a cyclist going twenty mph in the left turn lane on a six-
lane artery looks like he's lost his mind, except to other skilled
cyclists.

This season I found myself riding with a club mate who was at my level
athletically, but not in terms of experience.

Several times he said, "You almost got hit," but that was his
perception.

He would hug the right curb with a left turn approaching, and then do
a 90-degree left.

Hundreds of feet in advance of the turn I was already out in the lane
where I should have been.

This seemed dangerous to him, but what he was doing seemed normal,
logical.

It just seems that we teach by example. Do the right thing and ride on.

On Dec 3, 10:25 am, wrote:
I'm in the process of adjusting my riding style on the road. I've
started to take a lane
where there is no bike lane (it's on and off and by my apartment there
is none).

snip

Is that permissible under the California version of the UVC? Most
states require bicyclists to be as far right as practicable unless
they are travelling the speed of traffic. Not that violating the UVC
would excuse menacing by the truck driver -- which is the name of the
crime here in Oregon.

California is weird because lane sharing is allowed, as is passing on
the left. I wonder whether the second vehicle violated any law --
allthough, again, the person was not very courteous.

Remember, you will always get honked at by some drivers because (a)
you are perceived to be in their way, or (2) you are not stuck in
traffic and they are (the honking and lecture on some made-up traffic
law that prevents you from getting ahead of them). It has always been
this way, it is just worse now with all the cars. -- Jay Beattie.

On Dec 3, 3:18 pm, wrote:
SOmeone writes annymously (as he should):

I'm in the process of adjusting my riding style on the road. I've
started to take a lane where there is no bike lane (it's on and off
and by my apartment there is none).

THe reason this is a bad idea is that it clearly says to an
approaching motor vehicle, that you are driveing that vehicle, not
leaving that to that drivers discretion. In a "Blink" that is a
challenge and an isult, whether you see it that way or not.

I find interesting that when people get on their bicycle, they have no
understanding of the emotions and skills of auto drivers, and when
these same bicyclists get in their cars they have no understanding of
the bicyclists perceptions and skills.

In each event the person assumes the pther is stupid and cannot make
reasonable descisions... and this perception is apparent to the
subconcious of the person on whom it is perpetrated.

Sorry, I disagree. At least, I certainly disagree when the lane in
question is a mere 8 feet wide, as described by the anonymous OP.

A cyclist has a legal right to safely use the road. When the lane is
too narrow to safely share, he therefore has a legal right to take the
lane and prevent dangerous lane sharing. Eight feet is far too narrow
to safely share. Riding in the gutter so an F-150 can squeeze by is
foolish.

I figure I've been passed by motor vehicles thousands of time more
than any particular motorist has passed a bicycle. IOW, I've got far
more experience and knowledge about the situation than he has. I'll
trust my judgment, not hope that his judgment is good.

This doesn't mean I'm selfish or militant. In fact, I'll typically
share a 12 foot lane if speeds are moderate, even though I know other
cyclists who won't. But I'm not going to put myself at risk to save
some motorist fifteen seconds.

- Frank Krygowski

On Dec 3, 7:29 pm, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Dec 3, 10:25 am, wrote:

I'm in the process of adjusting my riding style on the road. I've
started to take a lane
where there is no bike lane (it's on and off and by my apartment there
is none).

snip

Is that permissible under the California version of the UVC? Most

I dunno. I fugured if i'm 2-3 feet from the rightmost side of the
rightmost lane how much further i'm expected to go?
I used to tread by a foot but moved left a bit lately after some
poster suggested that
i take a lane when i had a skirmish with a microbus a month ago.

states require bicyclists to be as far right as practicable unless
they are travelling the speed of traffic. Not that violating the UVC
would excuse menacing by the truck driver -- which is the name of the
crime here in Oregon.

from what i've heard if you're in _anything_ but a truck in Oregon
you don't belong on the road according to the trucksters :-)))

California is weird because lane sharing is allowed, as is passing on

lane sharing is not illegal here, but it's not explicitly allowed
either.
it's essentially left to the discretion of the ticketing officer

the left. I wonder whether the second vehicle violated any law --
allthough, again, the person was not very courteous.
Remember, you will always get honked at by some drivers because (a)
you are perceived to be in their way, or (2) you are not stuck in
traffic and they are (the honking and lecture on some made-up traffic
law that prevents you from getting ahead of them). It has always been
this way, it is just worse now with all the cars. -- Jay Beattie.

it definitely seems worse than in 95 when i arrived here and was
commuting
extensively on a bike. it could be all the shreks imported over the
last decade in addition to all the existing ba.wanna****s :-[
this is a very screwed up area, demographically, and it's getting
worse.
remember the last guy who posted recently insisting that he would buy
a bike from walmart because it looked like a bicycle and because
it would be the exact same piece of crap that he had back home
when he had to commute on 2 wheels rain or shine?
you get the idea.

i guess i'm just venting at this point

In article

egroups.com,
wrote:

I'm in the process of adjusting my riding style on the road. I've
started to take a lane
where there is no bike lane (it's on and off and by my apartment there
is none).

Yesterday riding in the right lane i got honked by some fellow in a
F150 hogsley dudeson
and the sob honked, passed me within a foot or so promptly cutting me
off soon after
only to slow me down a few hundred feet down the road (the prick
apparently
was in a hurry to get into the local 7-eleven).
I promptly reported his licence place to the police desk officer for
the city.
They promised to stop by his house and explain the privilege vs. right
to drive
concept to him.

Later on that sunday i was riding in a more upscale part of the city
(Churchhill&Alma, palo alto). Similar road configuration, four lanes
(two in one direction).
lanes about 8 feet wide, no bike lane. Stopped in the righthand lane
behind some cars,
started pulling off: another impatient prick is honking and passing me
within inches.
Got his licence plate too and wonder if i should report him as a
belligerant driver to PAPD.

In the first case i was moving with the traffic, not terribly slow:
20-25 in a 30 mph zone
so it was clear cut that the guy get reported. In the second case,
well,
while on a bike, i can't match the acceleration of the shiny new metal
and it was
a 35 mph zone. If i were in his place i might've been mildly annoyed
by
a relatively slowly accelerating bike in my path.
On the other hand, the american law seems to be very clear: when
passing bicycles
give 3 feet of clearance no "if"s and "because" and presumably people
buy hyundays santa fe so that they can see a bicycle down the road,
plan
accordingly, and merge from 2nd into 1st lane thus avoiding the whole
issue of
being stuck behind.
If you were in my place would you report the second driver and what do
you typically
do in this situation and/or to avoid such problem in a bikelaneless
config?

I do not know if I would file a report. I have filed reports.

I would turn and smile at the driver, and make a hand
signal indicating how I think we should proceed. When
given a chance in these kinds of situations I suggest
that we pull over and talk out the matter. Very seldom
does the driver avail himself of the opportunity. What
the hell. The driver was probably in the wrong and
knows it, he had a chance to vent, and he may not kick
the dog when he gets home.

--
Michael Press