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my fixie doesn't need improvement



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 16th 18, 06:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,607
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On 2018-02-15 11:03, wrote:
On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 12:25:29 PM UTC-6, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-14 09:22, AMuzi wrote:
but for some of you...

https://cyclingindustry.news/new-pat...n-bike-system/





And then, way out in the boonies, your battery gives out.

The guys writing that patent may not have much of a clue about
serious MTB riding.


Have you ever ridden or lived with a bike with electronic shifting?
I doubt it.



No but I have met a guy who had a battery fail mid-ride and then the
front DR quit. Which was just peachy in the mountainous region.


... Because anyone who has owned and ridden a Shimano Di2
bike would fall on their butt laughing at your nonsense about a
battery giving out. Ha Ha Ho Ho. On my Di2 road bike the batteries
last 2 to 3 years between charges. Again that is 2 to 3 YEARS
between charges. I suspect you replace your shift cables more often
than I charge the battery on my Di2 bike. Ha Ha Ho Ho.

And just for your information. When a Di2 battery gets weak and
loses the ability to function, the front derailleur shifting will
stop first.



Exactly. And I don't want that to happen. Most definitely not on my MTB.


... And then hundreds/thousands of shifts later, the rear
shifting will stop. So you have weeks or months of warning long
before the rear derailleur stops shifting with Di2.


IMO there is stuff that mankind doesn't need so badly. Power windows,
power locks, automatic transmissions in cars. Or electric shifters on
bikes. I've got none of that and I don't want any of it.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Ads
  #12  
Old February 16th 18, 06:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,486
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 9:27:18 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-15 11:03, wrote:
On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 12:25:29 PM UTC-6, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-14 09:22, AMuzi wrote:
but for some of you...

https://cyclingindustry.news/new-pat...n-bike-system/





And then, way out in the boonies, your battery gives out.

The guys writing that patent may not have much of a clue about
serious MTB riding.


Have you ever ridden or lived with a bike with electronic shifting?
I doubt it.



No but I have met a guy who had a battery fail mid-ride and then the
front DR quit. Which was just peachy in the mountainous region.


... Because anyone who has owned and ridden a Shimano Di2
bike would fall on their butt laughing at your nonsense about a
battery giving out. Ha Ha Ho Ho. On my Di2 road bike the batteries
last 2 to 3 years between charges. Again that is 2 to 3 YEARS
between charges. I suspect you replace your shift cables more often
than I charge the battery on my Di2 bike. Ha Ha Ho Ho.

And just for your information. When a Di2 battery gets weak and
loses the ability to function, the front derailleur shifting will
stop first.



Exactly. And I don't want that to happen. Most definitely not on my MTB.


... And then hundreds/thousands of shifts later, the rear
shifting will stop. So you have weeks or months of warning long
before the rear derailleur stops shifting with Di2.


IMO there is stuff that mankind doesn't need so badly. Power windows,
power locks, automatic transmissions in cars. Or electric shifters on
bikes. I've got none of that and I don't want any of it.


Fine, but the likelihood of running out your battery on current Di2 is about the same risk as breaking a cable. And unlike a broken cable, there is a flashing warning light before a Di2 battery dies.

You can hand-wring about most anything on a bike. Those idiots! Why did they put spokes in wheels! They break! Chains, derailleurs, linkages -- look at all the stuff people break on their MTBs all the time. You should ride a hard-tail SS with balloon tires if you're looking for bullet-proof.

-- Jay Beattie.

  #13  
Old February 16th 18, 07:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,607
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On 2018-02-16 09:51, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 9:27:18 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-15 11:03, wrote:
On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 12:25:29 PM UTC-6, Joerg
wrote:
On 2018-02-14 09:22, AMuzi wrote:
but for some of you...

https://cyclingindustry.news/new-pat...n-bike-system/







And then, way out in the boonies, your battery gives out.

The guys writing that patent may not have much of a clue about
serious MTB riding.

Have you ever ridden or lived with a bike with electronic
shifting? I doubt it.



No but I have met a guy who had a battery fail mid-ride and then
the front DR quit. Which was just peachy in the mountainous
region.


... Because anyone who has owned and ridden a Shimano Di2 bike
would fall on their butt laughing at your nonsense about a
battery giving out. Ha Ha Ho Ho. On my Di2 road bike the
batteries last 2 to 3 years between charges. Again that is 2 to
3 YEARS between charges. I suspect you replace your shift cables
more often than I charge the battery on my Di2 bike. Ha Ha Ho
Ho.

And just for your information. When a Di2 battery gets weak and
loses the ability to function, the front derailleur shifting
will stop first.



Exactly. And I don't want that to happen. Most definitely not on my
MTB.


... And then hundreds/thousands of shifts later, the rear
shifting will stop. So you have weeks or months of warning long
before the rear derailleur stops shifting with Di2.


IMO there is stuff that mankind doesn't need so badly. Power
windows, power locks, automatic transmissions in cars. Or electric
shifters on bikes. I've got none of that and I don't want any of
it.


Fine, but the likelihood of running out your battery on current Di2
is about the same risk as breaking a cable. And unlike a broken
cable, there is a flashing warning light before a Di2 battery dies.


I have heard different stories. Maybe the technology has improved by now
but what people said was that frequent FD shifting eats a lot of battery
juice. On my MTB I am shifting the FD all the time. Often hundreds of
shifts per ride, much more so than the RD. Similar on the road bike but
that sees way less shifting. I can see electric shifting work on a road
bike. But why? Heck, I don't even miss the index shifting I have on the
MTB when I am riding my road bike with friction shifters. It suffices.

Young riders, different story. Yesterday I came up on another rider at
the onset of an incline. KKKRACK ... rat-tat-tat ... clunk ... KRRRRK.
Turns out his dad had given him his mid-80's Medici which had lived as a
garage queen. Chrome plated fork and seat stays, almost zero miles on
it. What a bike! But ... friction shifters. It seemed like someone
driving a truck with non-synchronized gears for the first time.

Actually, in some situations ye olde friction shifters are better than
anything that came later. In situations where you must quickly shift
from a very high gear straight to almost the lowest, that can be
achieved in about one second simple by an opposite flick of thumb and
index finger on the downtube levers. Only with friction shifters. Ok, a
Rohloff or a similar hub transmission could also do that. Can Di2?


You can hand-wring about most anything on a bike. Those idiots! Why
did they put spokes in wheels! They break! Chains, derailleurs,
linkages -- look at all the stuff people break on their MTBs all the
time. You should ride a hard-tail SS with balloon tires if you're
looking for bullet-proof.


No, just needs to be sturdier, that's all. For example, O-ringed chains
as the motorcyclist have would be nice, cuts down on maintenance effort.

Other stuff has become available by now, such as ceramic-based brake
pads (so far only from Asian sources).

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #14  
Old February 17th 18, 12:16 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tim McNamara
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,827
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

Oh thank god! More skills I no longer have to trouble myself to learn
and master!

Forth ignorami! First Congress, then the Oval Office and now the
ultimate dumb ceiling is smashed: mountain biking! No longer will the
smart and expert be better than me at doing things!
  #15  
Old February 17th 18, 02:48 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,843
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On 2/16/2018 5:16 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
Oh thank god! More skills I no longer have to trouble myself to learn
and master!

Forth ignorami! First Congress, then the Oval Office and now the
ultimate dumb ceiling is smashed: mountain biking! No longer will the
smart and expert be better than me at doing things!


https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23585.Why_Not_Me_

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #16  
Old February 17th 18, 02:56 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,967
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 09:27:28 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-02-15 11:03, wrote:
On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 12:25:29 PM UTC-6, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-14 09:22, AMuzi wrote:
but for some of you...

https://cyclingindustry.news/new-pat...n-bike-system/





And then, way out in the boonies, your battery gives out.

The guys writing that patent may not have much of a clue about
serious MTB riding.


Have you ever ridden or lived with a bike with electronic shifting?
I doubt it.



No but I have met a guy who had a battery fail mid-ride and then the
front DR quit. Which was just peachy in the mountainous region.


... Because anyone who has owned and ridden a Shimano Di2
bike would fall on their butt laughing at your nonsense about a
battery giving out. Ha Ha Ho Ho. On my Di2 road bike the batteries
last 2 to 3 years between charges. Again that is 2 to 3 YEARS
between charges. I suspect you replace your shift cables more often
than I charge the battery on my Di2 bike. Ha Ha Ho Ho.

And just for your information. When a Di2 battery gets weak and
loses the ability to function, the front derailleur shifting will
stop first.



Exactly. And I don't want that to happen. Most definitely not on my MTB.


... And then hundreds/thousands of shifts later, the rear
shifting will stop. So you have weeks or months of warning long
before the rear derailleur stops shifting with Di2.


IMO there is stuff that mankind doesn't need so badly. Power windows,
power locks, automatic transmissions in cars. Or electric shifters on
bikes. I've got none of that and I don't want any of it.


I think I *might* argue in favor of the auto transmission option as it
is my understanding that it is possible for the auto transmission to
give better fuel consumption then hand shifting. However, I believe
that this depends on both the driver and the use that the vehicle is
put to.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #17  
Old February 17th 18, 03:09 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,967
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 10:32:17 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-02-16 09:51, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 9:27:18 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-15 11:03, wrote:
On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 12:25:29 PM UTC-6, Joerg
wrote:
On 2018-02-14 09:22, AMuzi wrote:
but for some of you...

https://cyclingindustry.news/new-pat...n-bike-system/







And then, way out in the boonies, your battery gives out.

The guys writing that patent may not have much of a clue about
serious MTB riding.

Have you ever ridden or lived with a bike with electronic
shifting? I doubt it.


No but I have met a guy who had a battery fail mid-ride and then
the front DR quit. Which was just peachy in the mountainous
region.


... Because anyone who has owned and ridden a Shimano Di2 bike
would fall on their butt laughing at your nonsense about a
battery giving out. Ha Ha Ho Ho. On my Di2 road bike the
batteries last 2 to 3 years between charges. Again that is 2 to
3 YEARS between charges. I suspect you replace your shift cables
more often than I charge the battery on my Di2 bike. Ha Ha Ho
Ho.

And just for your information. When a Di2 battery gets weak and
loses the ability to function, the front derailleur shifting
will stop first.


Exactly. And I don't want that to happen. Most definitely not on my
MTB.


... And then hundreds/thousands of shifts later, the rear
shifting will stop. So you have weeks or months of warning long
before the rear derailleur stops shifting with Di2.


IMO there is stuff that mankind doesn't need so badly. Power
windows, power locks, automatic transmissions in cars. Or electric
shifters on bikes. I've got none of that and I don't want any of
it.


Fine, but the likelihood of running out your battery on current Di2
is about the same risk as breaking a cable. And unlike a broken
cable, there is a flashing warning light before a Di2 battery dies.


I have heard different stories. Maybe the technology has improved by now
but what people said was that frequent FD shifting eats a lot of battery
juice. On my MTB I am shifting the FD all the time. Often hundreds of
shifts per ride, much more so than the RD. Similar on the road bike but
that sees way less shifting. I can see electric shifting work on a road
bike. But why? Heck, I don't even miss the index shifting I have on the
MTB when I am riding my road bike with friction shifters. It suffices.

Young riders, different story. Yesterday I came up on another rider at
the onset of an incline. KKKRACK ... rat-tat-tat ... clunk ... KRRRRK.
Turns out his dad had given him his mid-80's Medici which had lived as a
garage queen. Chrome plated fork and seat stays, almost zero miles on
it. What a bike! But ... friction shifters. It seemed like someone
driving a truck with non-synchronized gears for the first time.

It is said that someone once asked Edie Marckx whether he ever missed
a shift with his down tube shifters. He replied, "I haven't missed a
shift since I was 12 years old"

Sounds as though your young rider needs more practice.

Actually, in some situations ye olde friction shifters are better than
anything that came later. In situations where you must quickly shift
from a very high gear straight to almost the lowest, that can be
achieved in about one second simple by an opposite flick of thumb and
index finger on the downtube levers. Only with friction shifters. Ok, a
Rohloff or a similar hub transmission could also do that. Can Di2?

You can hand-wring about most anything on a bike. Those idiots! Why
did they put spokes in wheels! They break! Chains, derailleurs,
linkages -- look at all the stuff people break on their MTBs all the
time. You should ride a hard-tail SS with balloon tires if you're
looking for bullet-proof.


No, just needs to be sturdier, that's all. For example, O-ringed chains
as the motorcyclist have would be nice, cuts down on maintenance effort.

Other stuff has become available by now, such as ceramic-based brake
pads (so far only from Asian sources).

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #18  
Old February 17th 18, 10:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 289
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 7:32:10 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-16 09:51, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 9:27:18 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-15 11:03, wrote:
On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 12:25:29 PM UTC-6, Joerg
wrote:
On 2018-02-14 09:22, AMuzi wrote:
but for some of you...

https://cyclingindustry.news/new-pat...n-bike-system/







And then, way out in the boonies, your battery gives out.

The guys writing that patent may not have much of a clue about
serious MTB riding.

Have you ever ridden or lived with a bike with electronic
shifting? I doubt it.


No but I have met a guy who had a battery fail mid-ride and then
the front DR quit. Which was just peachy in the mountainous
region.


... Because anyone who has owned and ridden a Shimano Di2 bike
would fall on their butt laughing at your nonsense about a
battery giving out. Ha Ha Ho Ho. On my Di2 road bike the
batteries last 2 to 3 years between charges. Again that is 2 to
3 YEARS between charges. I suspect you replace your shift cables
more often than I charge the battery on my Di2 bike. Ha Ha Ho
Ho.

And just for your information. When a Di2 battery gets weak and
loses the ability to function, the front derailleur shifting
will stop first.


Exactly. And I don't want that to happen. Most definitely not on my
MTB.


... And then hundreds/thousands of shifts later, the rear
shifting will stop. So you have weeks or months of warning long
before the rear derailleur stops shifting with Di2.


IMO there is stuff that mankind doesn't need so badly. Power
windows, power locks, automatic transmissions in cars. Or electric
shifters on bikes. I've got none of that and I don't want any of
it.


Fine, but the likelihood of running out your battery on current Di2
is about the same risk as breaking a cable. And unlike a broken
cable, there is a flashing warning light before a Di2 battery dies.


I have heard different stories. Maybe the technology has improved by now
but what people said was that frequent FD shifting eats a lot of battery
juice. On my MTB I am shifting the FD all the time. Often hundreds of
shifts per ride, much more so than the RD. Similar on the road bike but
that sees way less shifting. I can see electric shifting work on a road
bike. But why? Heck, I don't even miss the index shifting I have on the
MTB when I am riding my road bike with friction shifters. It suffices.


You don't know what you are talking about. I shift the crap out of my Di2 system on my crossbike off road, front and back. I charge the battery once at the beginning of the season (november), end of the season is end of februari, battery indicator is still green, leave the bike as is during off season (march to october), battery indicator is still green or green flashing. I hose my bike at the carwash after every muddy ride which is almost every time without problems. Everything for 4 years now. DI2 is a f*cking reliable system.


Young riders, different story. Yesterday I came up on another rider at
the onset of an incline. KKKRACK ... rat-tat-tat ... clunk ... KRRRRK.
Turns out his dad had given him his mid-80's Medici which had lived as a
garage queen. Chrome plated fork and seat stays, almost zero miles on
it. What a bike! But ... friction shifters. It seemed like someone
driving a truck with non-synchronized gears for the first time.

Actually, in some situations ye olde friction shifters are better than
anything that came later. In situations where you must quickly shift
from a very high gear straight to almost the lowest, that can be
achieved in about one second simple by an opposite flick of thumb and
index finger on the downtube levers. Only with friction shifters. Ok, a
Rohloff or a similar hub transmission could also do that. Can Di2?


Of course. With downtube shifters you have to reach down, move the lever and the chain still has to travel from the smallest sprocket to the largest sprocket or the other way. With DI2 you don't have to reach down. You just push and hold the switch and the chain travels in one movement from the smallest sprocket to the largest or the other way round while you pedaling.
Keeping your hands on the handlebar is a huge advantage (faster and safer)in many situations compared to downtube friction shifters.

Lou
  #19  
Old February 17th 18, 06:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,486
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 1:28:45 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 7:32:10 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-16 09:51, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 9:27:18 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-15 11:03, wrote:
On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 12:25:29 PM UTC-6, Joerg
wrote:
On 2018-02-14 09:22, AMuzi wrote:
but for some of you...

https://cyclingindustry.news/new-pat...n-bike-system/







And then, way out in the boonies, your battery gives out.

The guys writing that patent may not have much of a clue about
serious MTB riding.

Have you ever ridden or lived with a bike with electronic
shifting? I doubt it.


No but I have met a guy who had a battery fail mid-ride and then
the front DR quit. Which was just peachy in the mountainous
region.


... Because anyone who has owned and ridden a Shimano Di2 bike
would fall on their butt laughing at your nonsense about a
battery giving out. Ha Ha Ho Ho. On my Di2 road bike the
batteries last 2 to 3 years between charges. Again that is 2 to
3 YEARS between charges. I suspect you replace your shift cables
more often than I charge the battery on my Di2 bike. Ha Ha Ho
Ho.

And just for your information. When a Di2 battery gets weak and
loses the ability to function, the front derailleur shifting
will stop first.


Exactly. And I don't want that to happen. Most definitely not on my
MTB.


... And then hundreds/thousands of shifts later, the rear
shifting will stop. So you have weeks or months of warning long
before the rear derailleur stops shifting with Di2.


IMO there is stuff that mankind doesn't need so badly. Power
windows, power locks, automatic transmissions in cars. Or electric
shifters on bikes. I've got none of that and I don't want any of
it.

Fine, but the likelihood of running out your battery on current Di2
is about the same risk as breaking a cable. And unlike a broken
cable, there is a flashing warning light before a Di2 battery dies.


I have heard different stories. Maybe the technology has improved by now
but what people said was that frequent FD shifting eats a lot of battery
juice. On my MTB I am shifting the FD all the time. Often hundreds of
shifts per ride, much more so than the RD. Similar on the road bike but
that sees way less shifting. I can see electric shifting work on a road
bike. But why? Heck, I don't even miss the index shifting I have on the
MTB when I am riding my road bike with friction shifters. It suffices.


You don't know what you are talking about. I shift the crap out of my Di2 system on my crossbike off road, front and back. I charge the battery once at the beginning of the season (november), end of the season is end of februari, battery indicator is still green, leave the bike as is during off season (march to october), battery indicator is still green or green flashing.. I hose my bike at the carwash after every muddy ride which is almost every time without problems. Everything for 4 years now. DI2 is a f*cking reliable system.


Young riders, different story. Yesterday I came up on another rider at
the onset of an incline. KKKRACK ... rat-tat-tat ... clunk ... KRRRRK.
Turns out his dad had given him his mid-80's Medici which had lived as a
garage queen. Chrome plated fork and seat stays, almost zero miles on
it. What a bike! But ... friction shifters. It seemed like someone
driving a truck with non-synchronized gears for the first time.

Actually, in some situations ye olde friction shifters are better than
anything that came later. In situations where you must quickly shift
from a very high gear straight to almost the lowest, that can be
achieved in about one second simple by an opposite flick of thumb and
index finger on the downtube levers. Only with friction shifters. Ok, a
Rohloff or a similar hub transmission could also do that. Can Di2?


Of course. With downtube shifters you have to reach down, move the lever and the chain still has to travel from the smallest sprocket to the largest sprocket or the other way. With DI2 you don't have to reach down. You just push and hold the switch and the chain travels in one movement from the smallest sprocket to the largest or the other way round while you pedaling.
Keeping your hands on the handlebar is a huge advantage (faster and safer)in many situations compared to downtube friction shifters.

Lou


STI changed racing. I raced with DT friction shifters for over a decade. There was nothing better about them. All downside. The only benefit in daily riding was simplicity and durability. Your ****ty DT shifters lasted forever, and they were easy to work on.

Oh, another upside of friction shifters is that they were great excuses for losing a race like "I missed a shift," or "I was sprinting out of the saddle in the wrong gear," etc., etc. They would also auto shift when the levers spontaneously loosened.

-- Jay Beattie.

 




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