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  #121  
Old April 15th 08, 02:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.racing
wizardB
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Dan Gregory wrote:
wrote:

Using a formula to figure your max HR is like fitting your shoes based
on measuring the circumfrence of your head. Some correlation for a
population probably, but near usless for an individual. The only way
to find out what max HR is is to induce it.


Thinking of formulae "off the top of my head" my MHR is the age of my
father when he died + the age of my mother when she died + 5
:-))

Does that mean my max will keep climbing ones 84 and the other 85 hmmmmm...
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  #124  
Old April 15th 08, 05:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.racing
Peter Grange
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On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 22:32:21 -0400, Coal Porter
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:10:59 +0100, Peter Grange
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 18:28:05 -0400, Coal Porter
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 17:17:06 +0100, Peter Grange
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 19:54:39 -0400, Coal Porter
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 12:40:14 +0100, Peter Grange
wrote:

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 23:22:14 -0700 (PDT),
" wrote:


Using a formula to figure your max HR is like fitting your shoes based
on measuring the circumfrence of your head. Some correlation for a
population probably, but near usless for an individual. The only way
to find out what max HR is is to induce it.

How do you induce max heart rate, without finding out it won't go
_that_ fast and having the rate abruptly return to zero?

Like the poster says, you induce it. When you reach your maximum, the
heart doesn't explode, it just stops beating faster. It's not unlike
the converse: as you go into deep relaxation and then sleep, your
heart doesn't shut down for a spell.

OK, for a young person who has an established level of fitness, maybe
that's a half reasonable thing to do. I can't see that it's anything
approaching a good idea for just anyone to set out to find out how
fast his/her heart will go.

Sorry, I made a mistake in my initial response: at a certain age, I
think it's 40, it's recommended that the aspiring trainee consult with
a physician before beginning a fitness program. I should have added
that qualifier but some may say it's implied.

In another sense, there's semantics going on here. There's clearly a
common sense approach to this whole exercise(/GROAN). But there's also
a self limiting factor: a beginning fitness buff can't do today what
they'll be able to do tomorrow, next week, next month, and in a
decade. So get your butt out there, and do all you can, it ain't gonna
be much, but you'll get better.

This is my tenth cycling season. There are times when I'm exhausted
but I'll still go out for a ride. It might just be maintenace, but
it'll have more climbing than anthing that I might have done to curry
a high heart rate in the first 3, or 4 years that I've cycled.

Cycling is not like running, you don't need a six month ramp up to
prepare your body bor the rigors of the sport. And you can never get
the half workout back. Better to give your best effort and have no
regrets.


I wouldn't mind betting there are a number of teenagers out there
where suddenly stressing the heart would not be a very good idea, but
I'm not a doctor.


In order to join a HS sports team, you need a release from an MD. You
need a physical. I suspect the rationale is potential liability and
nothing more. Frankly though, I think it's prudent and noone here has
suggested anything else.

Sorry, don't know what HS means, but I agree it certainly seems
prudent to seek medical advice before embarking on any major physical
exercise regime. This thread is posted to rec.bicycles.racing and
rec.bicycles.tech, where I read it. If it was only on rbr I would have
not taken such an exception to the "see how fast your heart can go"
theme of some of the posts. Plus I wouldn't have seen them anyway :-).

On the other hand, to respond directly to your supposition that some
teenagers are put at risk and therefore ought not to engage in
physical activity, I would take the opposing view. Any teenager who
could suffer life threatening repurcushions based on normal athletic
activity, should best find out at that time, when the body is most
capable of being repaired and a life's course is determined. I would
go so far as to say, we should produce far less fans and many more
participants. Participation is the goal not winning.


i was not suggesting a youngster should not take up recreational
cycling, I was suggesting he/she should not stress his/her heart by
trying to establish a max heart rate.
I would not for one minute try to discourage anyone from cycling, It's
given me much pleasure over the years, and is an excellent exercise
for those wishing to lose some weight and see some of the countryside
we still have left in this country, which is why a lot of people take
it up in the first place. What I would discourage a new cyclist from
doing is to try to establish a max heart rate by seeing how fast
his/her heart will go. The admittedly crude measures (220-age or
whatever) are IMHO quite adequate for setting up the calorie counter
on an HRM for a recreational cyclist, especiallly a rookie
recreational cyclist. My hrm will even take age as an input.


Surely exercising to near your max HR is the same on a bike as
running?


Sorry, you clearly have never looked at any data. I didn't understand
the difference either until I got an HRM. While running you support
your weight, when bikeing you're most often sitting on your butt and
it makes all the difference.

Running is a far more strenous workout than cycling. No one has to
talk about weight loss in a running forum, it's a byproduct of the
activity. Cyclist's are always wondering about it. People in this
thread are talking about it. Put an HRM on, go for a hour run. The
next day go for a ride. The questions answer themselves: one workout
is more strenous, the other can be done when your body can't handle
the harder exertion, a huge plus!

Perhaps I misunderstood your previous post. I was merely commenting
that to get your heart to its max it doesn't make a great deal of
difference how you get it there.

My butt is firmly out there. I'm now 62 & have been cycling to a
greater or lesser degree since I was 14, including Jon O' Groats to
Lands end, and tours over the Pyrenees.


You have great experiences, now if you can only pass on your personal
willingness to those that don't know that a little effort early on can
result in a lifetime of benefit. I started riding at 42 and I don't
want anyone that talks to me, to wait that long.

I advocate cycling whenever I can. I'm pleased to see that it has
enjoyed a resurgence in the last few years in the UK. I would like to
think it was due to people wanting exercise, but alas in London anyway
I believe it's more due to the tax on vehicles entering the city,
bombs on the underground (subway) and the equivalent of $8 a gallon we
pay for petrol now. People still get the exercise though I guess.

I repeat, my only gripe was with the "exercise to see how fast your
heart will go" theme. I don't exercise until I puke, as someone
advocated in this thread. I may puke, but that's probably more due to
the beers I had at the lunchtime stop. Hey this thread is getting
long.

pete

jay.


Pete

  #125  
Old April 15th 08, 06:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Camilo
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someone wrote (sorry, hard to keep the attributions straight):

and you'llsee your max drop as you spend more time on the road- such as during
the spring.


I've never heard such a thing. Where did you hear that max HR drops
with training?

I read that eddy had a very low max, something like
150bpm...the point is that the max hr is a very personal thing, and
there is no formula or point in comparison to any other individual
than yourself;


absolutely

hr monitoring and bpm numbers are useful intelectual
exercises to help quantify the pain and serve as a distraction during
the activity, as an excuse to ease off or provide a mandate to
continue; but the activity concludes with results that essentually
speak for themselves and that being the object of the activity, the hr
values are irrelevant


actually, I think HR based training has been shown to be an effective
training technique, not a "distraction", "excuse", "irrelevant" , etc.

someone else:

but I was thinking a bit more last night after I posted and I wonder
if the max hr is more of a pain threshold; the point where one says
"enough !" where someone else chooses to continue, I always feel I can
do more but don't because the agony becomes greater-


I think you're absolutely right. I've been told by good coaches that
the agony point is a good estimate of 90-95% max HR.
  #126  
Old April 15th 08, 06:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.racing
Camilo
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On Apr 10, 10:22 pm, "

Using a formula to figure your max HR is like fitting your shoes based
on measuring the circumfrence of your head. Some correlation for a
population probably, but near usless for an individual. The only way
to find out what max HR is is to induce it.


Joseph has spoken the truth.



 




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