Combining Ultegra Cassettes 11-34 + 14-28 - 14-34

On Thursday, August 23, 2018 at 2:55:09 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 2:47:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 8:28:43 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 5:36:37 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Hi Andrew,

From what I see I can get the three cogs of the 14-28 cassette without having to buy the complete cassette. The cost of the cogs plus a spacer is ~$20 which is not unreasonable. Similarly for the derailleur, instead of buying a GS just buy the two outer cage plates (also available) and convert my SS derailleur.

A super compact crankset would indeed be another option however from what I see the IRD Super Compact 30x46 is for a square bb, only compatible with 10sp (could not be an issue from what I read) and the cost is quite high ~$180. Is there another sub-compact crankset compatible with Shimano 24mm spindles?

On Tuesday, August 21, 2018 at 5:21:20 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/21/2018 6:49 AM, Dimitris wrote:
Dear All,

My 11-sp Ultegra-equipped bike came with a compact crankset (50-34) and an 11-28 cassette. For my use both the low and the high end are too high. For the low end there is the new HG800 11-34 cassette however the jumps are too big and besides I never use the 11 cog. I was thinking of replacing the first three cogs with the 3 first cogs (14-15-16) of the Ultegra 14-28 cassette to come up with a 14-34 cassette with the following steps : 14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25-27-30-34.

Will this setup work? I understand shifting between 16 and 17 will not be as smooth but how bad will it be? Of course I will use a medium-case derailleur.

Probably yes but you're committing to buying two cassettes
each time you replace chain/sprockets.

Last week we replaced a 34x50 Campagnolo crank with the new
IRD Super Compact 30x46 (w/ 11~32 cassette) which worked out
well; happy rider. Many paths to victory.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Here's the 14 problem: with a strong tailwind I could only ride at 28 mph with a 13. On downhills you can easily exceed that speed and not being able to pedal limits your control.

I really don't know what you mean by "wide ratios" since I have an 11-28 and with a normal compact crankset since that the lower gears are too close together - 11-12-13-15-17-19-21-23-25-28. On the lower gears you WANT wider ratios so that you can actually feel a change in the necessary strength required to pedal. I'm climbing 9% hills in the 21 and 23. And the 21 gets easy as the grade flattens out a bit. On a local 6% climb I'm in the 17 or 19 and the group is running away from me in their higher gears.

So I think that you ought to consider your own training rather than making odd choices of gearing. They don't make these expensive cassettes because the manufacturers are stupid.

I think the OP knows best what gearing he needs. Among my riding buddy's climbing longer ( 3-4 km) 9% stretches in 34-21 or 34-23 is very unusual.. I use a 11-32 cassette in the mountains: 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-22-25-28-32.. I would trade in the 11 and 12 for a 18 and a 30 in an eye blink. 11-12-13-14-15, WTF? On the flats I ride a 12-25 cassette; 12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25. I would trade in the 12 for a 28 so I could ride that cassette in the hills in my backyard which are not longer than 2 km with grades up to 15% for a couple of 100 meters. YMMV.

Lou you weakling! You need to do more training. NOBODY should ride any cog larger than a 23t -- with a 49t front ring, like Jobst Brandt the human diesel truck. Personally, I ride 11sp: 11,11,11,11,12,12,12,12,13,13,14 (bail out gear) with a 50/53 compact. I ride 17% grades both ways to work and climb all weekend.

Yeah, I'm weak but the funny thing is that I ended up in the upper half of the all time Strava ranking on all climbs I did during my Tour through the Alpes this year and that with my 11-32 cassette and my age of 61 years. Unbelievable. One of my riding buddy did the same mountains on a 11-25 cassette though but he was an exception.

Lou

On Thursday, August 23, 2018 at 3:26:07 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/22/2018 7:55 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 2:47:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 8:28:43 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 5:36:37 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Hi Andrew,

From what I see I can get the three cogs of the 14-28 cassette without having to buy the complete cassette. The cost of the cogs plus a spacer is ~$20 which is not unreasonable. Similarly for the derailleur, instead of buying a GS just buy the two outer cage plates (also available) and convert my SS derailleur.

A super compact crankset would indeed be another option however from what I see the IRD Super Compact 30x46 is for a square bb, only compatible with 10sp (could not be an issue from what I read) and the cost is quite high ~$180. Is there another sub-compact crankset compatible with Shimano 24mm spindles?

On Tuesday, August 21, 2018 at 5:21:20 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/21/2018 6:49 AM, Dimitris wrote:
Dear All,

My 11-sp Ultegra-equipped bike came with a compact crankset (50-34) and an 11-28 cassette. For my use both the low and the high end are too high. For the low end there is the new HG800 11-34 cassette however the jumps are too big and besides I never use the 11 cog. I was thinking of replacing the first three cogs with the 3 first cogs (14-15-16) of the Ultegra 14-28 cassette to come up with a 14-34 cassette with the following steps : 14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25-27-30-34.

Will this setup work? I understand shifting between 16 and 17 will not be as smooth but how bad will it be? Of course I will use a medium-case derailleur.

Probably yes but you're committing to buying two cassettes
each time you replace chain/sprockets.

Last week we replaced a 34x50 Campagnolo crank with the new
IRD Super Compact 30x46 (w/ 11~32 cassette) which worked out
well; happy rider. Many paths to victory.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Here's the 14 problem: with a strong tailwind I could only ride at 28 mph with a 13. On downhills you can easily exceed that speed and not being able to pedal limits your control.

I really don't know what you mean by "wide ratios" since I have an 11-28 and with a normal compact crankset since that the lower gears are too close together - 11-12-13-15-17-19-21-23-25-28. On the lower gears you WANT wider ratios so that you can actually feel a change in the necessary strength required to pedal. I'm climbing 9% hills in the 21 and 23. And the 21 gets easy as the grade flattens out a bit. On a local 6% climb I'm in the 17 or 19 and the group is running away from me in their higher gears.

So I think that you ought to consider your own training rather than making odd choices of gearing. They don't make these expensive cassettes because the manufacturers are stupid.

I think the OP knows best what gearing he needs. Among my riding buddy's climbing longer ( 3-4 km) 9% stretches in 34-21 or 34-23 is very unusual. I use a 11-32 cassette in the mountains: 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-22-25-28-32. I would trade in the 11 and 12 for a 18 and a 30 in an eye blink. 11-12-13-14-15, WTF? On the flats I ride a 12-25 cassette; 12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25. I would trade in the 12 for a 28 so I could ride that cassette in the hills in my backyard which are not longer than 2 km with grades up to 15% for a couple of 100 meters. YMMV.

Lou you weakling! You need to do more training. NOBODY should ride any cog larger than a 23t -- with a 49t front ring, like Jobst Brandt the human diesel truck. Personally, I ride 11sp: 11,11,11,11,12,12,12,12,13,13,14 (bail out gear) with a 50/53 compact. I ride 17% grades both ways to work and climb all weekend.

Actually, I did a 17% descent on the way to work this morning, and contrary to TK's assertions, the fact that I spun out and quit pedaling did not reduce my control. My control was reduced because I was airborne over bad pavement. This hill, except going down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsaGtzCbSmc (****ty video, hill starts at about 1:00) I usually climb that in my low gear of 50/14, spinning like Chris Froome. Really, I'm that strong. Say hey to Tom Dumoulin if you see him, and remind him of our ride this weekend. We were going to do some hill repeats on Monte Zoncolan.


Everyone who's actually fast rides Record 12 speed:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/2018ca12.jpg


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Look at the cassettes they offer:

Model Index:
11-29:
Gradation: 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-29 t
Factory Number: CS19-SR1219

11-32:
Gradation: 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-22-25-28-32 t
Factory Number: CS19-SR1212

They keep insisting using the 11t and still don't get understand the needs for the 'normal' people. The super compact cranks come for a reason.

Lou

On Tuesday, August 21, 2018 at 7:49:58 AM UTC-4, Dimitris wrote:
Dear All,

My 11-sp Ultegra-equipped bike came with a compact crankset (50-34) and an 11-28 cassette. For my use both the low and the high end are too high. For the low end there is the new HG800 11-34 cassette however the jumps are too big and besides I never use the 11 cog. I was thinking of replacing the first three cogs with the 3 first cogs (14-15-16) of the Ultegra 14-28 cassette to come up with a 14-34 cassette with the following steps : 14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25-27-30-34.

Will this setup work? I understand shifting between 16 and 17 will not be as smooth but how bad will it be? Of course I will use a medium-case derailleur.

Thanks in advance

Dimitris

No reason why it shouldn't work. I've done the same with less expensive cogsets. I've had no problem with the cassette locking ring coming loose even though it butts against a non-serrated cog.

Cheers

On 8/22/2018 9:43 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 8:26:07 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/22/2018 7:55 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 2:47:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 8:28:43 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 5:36:37 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Hi Andrew,

From what I see I can get the three cogs of the 14-28 cassette without having to buy the complete cassette. The cost of the cogs plus a spacer is ~$20 which is not unreasonable. Similarly for the derailleur, instead of buying a GS just buy the two outer cage plates (also available) and convert my SS derailleur.

A super compact crankset would indeed be another option however from what I see the IRD Super Compact 30x46 is for a square bb, only compatible with 10sp (could not be an issue from what I read) and the cost is quite high ~$180. Is there another sub-compact crankset compatible with Shimano 24mm spindles?

On Tuesday, August 21, 2018 at 5:21:20 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/21/2018 6:49 AM, Dimitris wrote:
Dear All,

My 11-sp Ultegra-equipped bike came with a compact crankset (50-34) and an 11-28 cassette. For my use both the low and the high end are too high. For the low end there is the new HG800 11-34 cassette however the jumps are too big and besides I never use the 11 cog. I was thinking of replacing the first three cogs with the 3 first cogs (14-15-16) of the Ultegra 14-28 cassette to come up with a 14-34 cassette with the following steps : 14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25-27-30-34.

Will this setup work? I understand shifting between 16 and 17 will not be as smooth but how bad will it be? Of course I will use a medium-case derailleur.

Probably yes but you're committing to buying two cassettes
each time you replace chain/sprockets.

Last week we replaced a 34x50 Campagnolo crank with the new
IRD Super Compact 30x46 (w/ 11~32 cassette) which worked out
well; happy rider. Many paths to victory.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Here's the 14 problem: with a strong tailwind I could only ride at 28 mph with a 13. On downhills you can easily exceed that speed and not being able to pedal limits your control.

I really don't know what you mean by "wide ratios" since I have an 11-28 and with a normal compact crankset since that the lower gears are too close together - 11-12-13-15-17-19-21-23-25-28. On the lower gears you WANT wider ratios so that you can actually feel a change in the necessary strength required to pedal. I'm climbing 9% hills in the 21 and 23. And the 21 gets easy as the grade flattens out a bit. On a local 6% climb I'm in the 17 or 19 and the group is running away from me in their higher gears.

So I think that you ought to consider your own training rather than making odd choices of gearing. They don't make these expensive cassettes because the manufacturers are stupid.

I think the OP knows best what gearing he needs. Among my riding buddy's climbing longer ( 3-4 km) 9% stretches in 34-21 or 34-23 is very unusual. I use a 11-32 cassette in the mountains: 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-22-25-28-32. I would trade in the 11 and 12 for a 18 and a 30 in an eye blink. 11-12-13-14-15, WTF? On the flats I ride a 12-25 cassette; 12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25. I would trade in the 12 for a 28 so I could ride that cassette in the hills in my backyard which are not longer than 2 km with grades up to 15% for a couple of 100 meters. YMMV.

Lou you weakling! You need to do more training. NOBODY should ride any cog larger than a 23t -- with a 49t front ring, like Jobst Brandt the human diesel truck. Personally, I ride 11sp: 11,11,11,11,12,12,12,12,13,13,14 (bail out gear) with a 50/53 compact. I ride 17% grades both ways to work and climb all weekend.

Actually, I did a 17% descent on the way to work this morning, and contrary to TK's assertions, the fact that I spun out and quit pedaling did not reduce my control. My control was reduced because I was airborne over bad pavement. This hill, except going down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsaGtzCbSmc (****ty video, hill starts at about 1:00) I usually climb that in my low gear of 50/14, spinning like Chris Froome. Really, I'm that strong. Say hey to Tom Dumoulin if you see him, and remind him of our ride this weekend. We were going to do some hill repeats on Monte Zoncolan.


Everyone who's actually fast rides Record 12 speed:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/2018ca12.jpg


When I clicked on your link I expected to see Eddy riding a 12 speed (2x6) Super Record from the 1970s with downtube friction levers.


You make two good points, viz.,
1. Eddy Merckx was and is a god.
2. Hyperbole/satire doesn't work any more.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 8/23/2018 3:03 AM, wrote:


They keep insisting using the 11t and still don't get understand the needs for the 'normal' people. The super compact cranks come for a reason.

I agree on the 11t issue. Cruising in the middle of a 50 man peloton?
Sure. Otherwise it's just marketing.

--
- Frank Krygowski

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 8/23/2018 7:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/23/2018 3:03 AM, wrote:


They keep insisting using the 11t and still don't get
understand the needs for the 'normal' people. The super
compact cranks come for a reason.

I agree on the 11t issue. Cruising in the middle of a 50 man
peloton? Sure. Otherwise it's just marketing.


A 42x11 is a reasonable high gear. For me, anyway.
YMMV and for Mr Kunich it will.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

AMuzi wrote:
On 8/23/2018 7:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/23/2018 3:03 AM, wrote:


They keep insisting using the 11t and still don't get
understand the needs for the 'normal' people. The super
compact cranks come for a reason.

I agree on the 11t issue. Cruising in the middle of a 50 man
peloton? Sure. Otherwise it's just marketing.


A 42x11 is a reasonable high gear. For me, anyway.
YMMV and for Mr Kunich it will.

Not sure what a super compact crank is. I have a mid compact. 52/36
I’ve been known to use 36x11. Thinking of rollers a bit too steep for the
52. No experience with a compact though.

--
duane

On Friday, August 24, 2018 at 5:22:03 AM UTC+2, Duane wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 8/23/2018 7:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/23/2018 3:03 AM, wrote:


They keep insisting using the 11t and still don't get
understand the needs for the 'normal' people. The super
compact cranks come for a reason.

I agree on the 11t issue. Cruising in the middle of a 50 man
peloton? Sure. Otherwise it's just marketing.


A 42x11 is a reasonable high gear. For me, anyway.
YMMV and for Mr Kunich it will.

Not sure what a super compact crank is.

FSA offer a 48/32 and a 46/30 super compact crank.

I have a mid compact. 52/36
I’ve been known to use 36x11. Thinking of rollers a bit too steep for the
52. No experience with a compact though.

No need to use 36/11. It is the same as 52/16. Probably a straighter chainline and not on a lousy running 11t sprocket.


Lou

On Thursday, August 23, 2018 at 8:07:04 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:

A 42x11 is a reasonable high gear. For me, anyway.
YMMV and for Mr Kunich it will.

--
Andrew Muzi

I'm going to disagree. I have a couple bikes with 53x13 high gears. Perfectly fine high gears. A bike with 48x12 high, another with 44x11 high, and another with 52x13. All three are slightly, slightly, slightly under geared. The 44x11 is my touring bike. When riding it unloaded, with a tailwind, and downhill a bit, I can and do spin out a little too soon. It needs just a bit higher gear. Maybe a 45x11 or even a 46x11 high gear. A 4:1 high gear is just not quite high enough. Close, but I want/need just a bit higher high gear. A 50x12 high gear would be near perfect.

wrote:
On Friday, August 24, 2018 at 5:22:03 AM UTC+2, Duane wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 8/23/2018 7:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/23/2018 3:03 AM, wrote:


They keep insisting using the 11t and still don't get
understand the needs for the 'normal' people. The super
compact cranks come for a reason.

I agree on the 11t issue. Cruising in the middle of a 50 man
peloton? Sure. Otherwise it's just marketing.


A 42x11 is a reasonable high gear. For me, anyway.
YMMV and for Mr Kunich it will.

Not sure what a super compact crank is.

FSA offer a 48/32 and a 46/30 super compact crank.


Thanks.

I have a mid compact. 52/36
I’ve been known to use 36x11. Thinking of rollers a bit too steep for the
52. No experience with a compact though.

No need to use 36/11. It is the same as 52/16. Probably a straighter
chainline and not on a lousy running 11t sprocket.


I know but what I meant was if I’m on the small ring doing rollers it’s
because they’re a bit steep so when I top one I can stay in the same ring
by going to the 11. Otherwise I’m probably not using 36/11.






--
duane