"Mountain biking is no more damaging than other forms of recreation, including hiking."

"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...

"S Curtiss" wrote in message
news:3LCjg.30022$ZW3.28943@dukeread04...

There is not only the question of the impact on trails and wildlife,
but the impact on other users. Hikers and equestrians do not seem to
conflict as much as hikers and bikers. It is all about mental
attitudes and how one views wilderness. Vandeman concentrates on the
impact issue with regard to trails and wildlife whereas I am mostly
concerned about the mental and spiritual dimensions of how different
users view wilderness. Frankly, I would not have such a big issue with
mountain bikers if I thought they viewed wilderness with respect.
Instead, I see too many who are only into wilderness for fun and
games. Wilderness is just a mean of recreation for them, not a
pilgrimage of the soul like it is for us hikers.

What makes you think you can speak for anybody? "Us hikers"? Give us a
break! Your form of "recreation" (make no mistake, hiking is
recreation) does not invalidate my choice of recreation.

Hiking is not just a recreation like mountain biking is. It is somewhat
spiritual and requires wilderness for its' platform. There is so little
wilderness left that it is criminal of you to want to deprive us hikers
of our last refuge from the dirty rotten scoundrels of the world.

The above is nothing but boilerplate by Dolan and has by now become
meaningless. I will no longer pay any attention to such drivel.

The above is nothing but pure idiocy by Curtiss and I will no longer
bother with such drivel.
Is Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota, aka Conan the Librarian, chasing his own
tail...? He states he will have nothing more to do with "such drivel" then
replies with practically the same message the very next day. How much
"drivel" is "such drivel"? How "great" is that? Not so much, methinks...


Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota



The nationwide cooperative
efforts of different groups sharing resources and recognizing the
diversity of access validates my choices. (and my opinions, and the
"science" and research that supports them with support from the
agencies that oversee and enforce the rulings)

The above is nothing but boilerplate by Curitss and has by now become
meaningless. I will no longer pay any attention to such drivel.

"S Curtiss" wrote in message
news:fJYjg.16$FR1.7@dukeread05...
"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...

"S Curtiss" wrote in message
news:3LCjg.30022$ZW3.28943@dukeread04...

There is not only the question of the impact on trails and wildlife,
but the impact on other users. Hikers and equestrians do not seem to
conflict as much as hikers and bikers. It is all about mental
attitudes and how one views wilderness. Vandeman concentrates on the
impact issue with regard to trails and wildlife whereas I am mostly
concerned about the mental and spiritual dimensions of how different
users view wilderness. Frankly, I would not have such a big issue
with mountain bikers if I thought they viewed wilderness with
respect. Instead, I see too many who are only into wilderness for fun
and games. Wilderness is just a mean of recreation for them, not a
pilgrimage of the soul like it is for us hikers.

What makes you think you can speak for anybody? "Us hikers"? Give us a
break! Your form of "recreation" (make no mistake, hiking is
recreation) does not invalidate my choice of recreation.

Hiking is not just a recreation like mountain biking is. It is somewhat
spiritual and requires wilderness for its' platform. There is so little
wilderness left that it is criminal of you to want to deprive us hikers
of our last refuge from the dirty rotten scoundrels of the world.

The above is nothing but boilerplate by Dolan and has by now become
meaningless. I will no longer pay any attention to such drivel.

The above is nothing but pure idiocy by Curtiss and I will no longer
bother with such drivel.

Is Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota, aka Conan the Librarian, chasing his
own tail...? He states he will have nothing more to do with "such drivel"
then replies with practically the same message the very next day. How much
"drivel" is "such drivel"? How "great" is that? Not so much, methinks...

Curtiss will never win this kind of game with me because I am just so g.d.
Great (besides being a Great Saint) and he is nothing but a pip-squeak. He
proves that every time he attempts of answer the great Mike Vandeman. Yes,
Vandeman is also great, but of course not so Great as Me.

We hikers will stick together because we have souls unlike mountain bikers
who are soulless. And we will eternally condemn mountain bikers for their
desecration of the wilderness and for their overall all slobbiness and
general uncouthness.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Edward Dolan wrote:
Curtiss will never win this kind of game with me because I am just
so g.d.
Great (besides being a Great Saint) and he is nothing but a pip-squeak. He
proves that every time he attempts of answer the great Mike Vandeman. Yes,
Vandeman is also great, but of course not so Great as Me.

We hikers will stick together because we have souls unlike mountain bikers
who are soulless. And we will eternally condemn mountain bikers for their
desecration of the wilderness and for their overall all slobbiness and
general uncouthness.



Running out of ideas are you eddie? That was a pretty pathetic response.
Normally you little trolls do a bit better, not much but at least your
responses are amusing.

On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 14:39:01 -0400, "S Curtiss"
wrote:

"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...

"S Curtiss" wrote in message
news:3LCjg.30022$ZW3.28943@dukeread04...

There is not only the question of the impact on trails and wildlife,
but the impact on other users. Hikers and equestrians do not seem to
conflict as much as hikers and bikers. It is all about mental
attitudes and how one views wilderness. Vandeman concentrates on the
impact issue with regard to trails and wildlife whereas I am mostly
concerned about the mental and spiritual dimensions of how different
users view wilderness. Frankly, I would not have such a big issue with
mountain bikers if I thought they viewed wilderness with respect.
Instead, I see too many who are only into wilderness for fun and
games. Wilderness is just a mean of recreation for them, not a
pilgrimage of the soul like it is for us hikers.

What makes you think you can speak for anybody? "Us hikers"? Give us a
break! Your form of "recreation" (make no mistake, hiking is
recreation) does not invalidate my choice of recreation.

Hiking is not just a recreation like mountain biking is. It is somewhat
spiritual and requires wilderness for its' platform. There is so little
wilderness left that it is criminal of you to want to deprive us hikers
of our last refuge from the dirty rotten scoundrels of the world.

The above is nothing but boilerplate by Dolan and has by now become
meaningless. I will no longer pay any attention to such drivel.

The above is nothing but pure idiocy by Curtiss and I will no longer
bother with such drivel.
Is Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota, aka Conan the Librarian, chasing his own
tail...? He states he will have nothing more to do with "such drivel" then
replies with practically the same message the very next day. How much
"drivel" is "such drivel"? How "great" is that? Not so much, methinks...

Give up and crawl back into your hole. The worst of all sins is lack
of any sense of humor. You are boring all of us to death.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 11:45:48 GMT, Jason
wrote:

Edward Dolan wrote:
Curtiss will never win this kind of game with me because I am just
so g.d.
Great (besides being a Great Saint) and he is nothing but a pip-squeak. He
proves that every time he attempts of answer the great Mike Vandeman. Yes,
Vandeman is also great, but of course not so Great as Me.

We hikers will stick together because we have souls unlike mountain bikers
who are soulless. And we will eternally condemn mountain bikers for their
desecration of the wilderness and for their overall all slobbiness and
general uncouthness.



Running out of ideas are you eddie? That was a pretty pathetic response.
Normally you little trolls do a bit better, not much but at least your
responses are amusing.

Sour grapes? Everyone without a sense of humor should give up and go
home. Your posts are uniformly less than worthless. They have NEGATIVE
worth.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
news:5PSdnbd_w92K6A3ZnZ2dnUVZ_qSdnZ2d@prairiewave. com...

"S Curtiss" wrote in message
news:fJYjg.16$FR1.7@dukeread05...
"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...

"S Curtiss" wrote in message
news:3LCjg.30022$ZW3.28943@dukeread04...

There is not only the question of the impact on trails and wildlife,
but the impact on other users. Hikers and equestrians do not seem to
conflict as much as hikers and bikers. It is all about mental
attitudes and how one views wilderness. Vandeman concentrates on the
impact issue with regard to trails and wildlife whereas I am mostly
concerned about the mental and spiritual dimensions of how different
users view wilderness. Frankly, I would not have such a big issue
with mountain bikers if I thought they viewed wilderness with
respect. Instead, I see too many who are only into wilderness for
fun and games. Wilderness is just a mean of recreation for them, not
a pilgrimage of the soul like it is for us hikers.

What makes you think you can speak for anybody? "Us hikers"? Give us
a break! Your form of "recreation" (make no mistake, hiking is
recreation) does not invalidate my choice of recreation.

Hiking is not just a recreation like mountain biking is. It is
somewhat spiritual and requires wilderness for its' platform. There is
so little wilderness left that it is criminal of you to want to
deprive us hikers of our last refuge from the dirty rotten scoundrels
of the world.

The above is nothing but boilerplate by Dolan and has by now become
meaningless. I will no longer pay any attention to such drivel.

The above is nothing but pure idiocy by Curtiss and I will no longer
bother with such drivel.

Is Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota, aka Conan the Librarian, chasing his
own tail...? He states he will have nothing more to do with "such drivel"
then replies with practically the same message the very next day. How
much "drivel" is "such drivel"? How "great" is that? Not so much,
methinks...

Curtiss will never win this kind of game with me because I am just so g.d.
Great (besides being a Great Saint) and he is nothing but a pip-squeak. He
proves that every time he attempts of answer the great Mike Vandeman. Yes,
Vandeman is also great, but of course not so Great as Me.

We hikers will stick together because we have souls unlike mountain bikers
who are soulless. And we will eternally condemn mountain bikers for their
desecration of the wilderness and for their overall all slobbiness and
general uncouthness.

Still can't resist a response to "such drivel"...? And... LOL, you
"eternally condemn mountain bikers" who are "soulless"...? Another "not so
great" response from Conan the Librarian, aka "ed dolan, the not so great",
"faint edward the grating - order of the curly fries"

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 14:39:01 -0400, "S Curtiss"
wrote:

"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...

"S Curtiss" wrote in message
news:3LCjg.30022$ZW3.28943@dukeread04...

There is not only the question of the impact on trails and wildlife,
but the impact on other users. Hikers and equestrians do not seem to
conflict as much as hikers and bikers. It is all about mental
attitudes and how one views wilderness. Vandeman concentrates on the
impact issue with regard to trails and wildlife whereas I am mostly
concerned about the mental and spiritual dimensions of how different
users view wilderness. Frankly, I would not have such a big issue
with
mountain bikers if I thought they viewed wilderness with respect.
Instead, I see too many who are only into wilderness for fun and
games. Wilderness is just a mean of recreation for them, not a
pilgrimage of the soul like it is for us hikers.

What makes you think you can speak for anybody? "Us hikers"? Give us
a
break! Your form of "recreation" (make no mistake, hiking is
recreation) does not invalidate my choice of recreation.

Hiking is not just a recreation like mountain biking is. It is
somewhat
spiritual and requires wilderness for its' platform. There is so
little
wilderness left that it is criminal of you to want to deprive us
hikers
of our last refuge from the dirty rotten scoundrels of the world.

The above is nothing but boilerplate by Dolan and has by now become
meaningless. I will no longer pay any attention to such drivel.

The above is nothing but pure idiocy by Curtiss and I will no longer
bother with such drivel.
Is Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota, aka Conan the Librarian, chasing his
own
tail...? He states he will have nothing more to do with "such drivel" then
replies with practically the same message the very next day. How much
"drivel" is "such drivel"? How "great" is that? Not so much, methinks...

Give up and crawl back into your hole. The worst of all sins is lack
of any sense of humor. You are boring all of us to death.
===
Made you look! ROFLMAO You may be right be right about my sense of humor,
Mikey... After all, the funniest website on the net is:
http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/ You've got "funny" all wrapped up!

Mike Vandeman wrote:

Sour grapes? Everyone without a sense of humor should give up and go
home. Your posts are uniformly less than worthless. They have NEGATIVE
worth.

Funny, that's what we think about you and your posts. How ironic.

Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 14:39:01 -0400, "S Curtiss"
wrote:


"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...

"S Curtiss" wrote in message
news:3LCjg.30022$ZW3.28943@dukeread04...

There is not only the question of the impact on trails and wildlife,
but the impact on other users. Hikers and equestrians do not seem to
conflict as much as hikers and bikers. It is all about mental
attitudes and how one views wilderness. Vandeman concentrates on the
impact issue with regard to trails and wildlife whereas I am mostly
concerned about the mental and spiritual dimensions of how different
users view wilderness. Frankly, I would not have such a big issue with
mountain bikers if I thought they viewed wilderness with respect.
Instead, I see too many who are only into wilderness for fun and
games. Wilderness is just a mean of recreation for them, not a
pilgrimage of the soul like it is for us hikers.

What makes you think you can speak for anybody? "Us hikers"? Give us a
break! Your form of "recreation" (make no mistake, hiking is
recreation) does not invalidate my choice of recreation.

Hiking is not just a recreation like mountain biking is. It is somewhat
spiritual and requires wilderness for its' platform. There is so little
wilderness left that it is criminal of you to want to deprive us hikers
of our last refuge from the dirty rotten scoundrels of the world.

The above is nothing but boilerplate by Dolan and has by now become
meaningless. I will no longer pay any attention to such drivel.

The above is nothing but pure idiocy by Curtiss and I will no longer
bother with such drivel.

Is Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota, aka Conan the Librarian, chasing his own
tail...? He states he will have nothing more to do with "such drivel" then
replies with practically the same message the very next day. How much
"drivel" is "such drivel"? How "great" is that? Not so much, methinks...


Give up and crawl back into your hole. The worst of all sins is lack
of any sense of humor. You are boring all of us to death.

Says who? Sorry if your
opinion here doesn't mean a
goddamned thing, Mike, but as
you are quite aware, the
remainder of the NG, wih the
possible exception of Ed,
wishes you would fall off the
planet . ..

S Curtiss wrote:

Sure - No worried! Since your OPINIONS have been ignored, and you offer no
corroboration from review or comment on your opinions by accredited persons,
and cooperation has prevailed state to state and by federal agencies, and
mountain biking continues to grow, and you continue to present to a handful
of other "presenters" at conferences you don't even reference until they are
over, and you insist on your definitions and generalizations... No worries
at all for those of us who live in reality!

That's the bottom line. Since no study has ever shown that mountain
biking is any more damaging than hiking, people like MV have to resort
to the type of lies that they have become infamous for. He still has
never produced any citations or references for his position, because
none exits.

At this point, everyone basically agrees that mountain biking and hiking
are about equal in trail and wildlife impact. Despite this, many hikers
still would prefer that they have exclusive use to trails and to the
back country, and it's understandable why. But they should be honest
about the reasons, rather than trying to use false rationalizations like
MV and ED. No one would think any worse of them if they would simply
say, "we find it annoying to have to share trails with other users," and
it would be a breath of fresh air from a pathological liar like MV.