Helmet News

On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 at 10:00:31 AM UTC-7, duane wrote:
On 19/06/2018 12:33 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2018 at 11:52:11 PM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
People can crash just riding along -- even the mayor.
https://bikeportland.org/2017/11/16/portland-mayor-ted-wheeler-breaks-ribs-in-bicycle-crash-254716

The mayor's statement indicates that his braking action could have been
executed in a more careful manner. Just as a random $89.85 for a "quality"
helmet could have been better spent on tires working well in Portland
November, the 5.885 extra seconds (compared to a wet-weather hat) Mr. Walker
spent adjusting his foam hijab would have been better spent to initiate his
braking earlier. And, as this thread has already been driven deep into ribs
helmet advocacy territory, I'll boldly claim there is a corresponding 85%
chance Mr. Wheeler was not using the area of the road regularly cleaned by
car tires in his maneuver.

You can boldly claim whatever you want, but as you can see, Mr. Wheeler rides big rubber. He was riding the same roads where I fell and broke ribs and whacked my head, which is the usual fall mechanism when you have a low side crash on 100 year old broken cement pavement that has been reduced to polished rock -- with a river running down a 7-15% grade. Wheel tracks are just channels. Alternative route to work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJRnwgPa6rM&t=119s (including trail). Coming down is tricky when it is storming. I was doing nothing unusual when I crashed -- on worn-in 28mm tires, JRA. Scene of the crime: https://tinyurl.com/yagxzbws Flip around and check out the pavement -- it's enough to loosen your fillings.


Meh, that would be a luxury road in Quebec. Check around Morin Heights,
Sutton or more north toward Tremblant. You spend hours climbing and
then have to brake on the descents because of the potholes.

I've been riding next to skilled riders who crashed on the same road in the same place in the same turn at the same moderate speed just because they hit some unseen turtle **** or moss. You try to stay out from under the trees, but some places that's impossible. Whatever you views on helmets, every crash is not a matter of rider ineptitude.



Well you could have been creeping along looking for the turtle **** or
moss. Or you could refuse to ride roads with tree cover.

I'm actually a level four instructor (with oak leaf cluster) of turtle-****/moss detection, certified by the Slick Roads Cycling Academy. I now train other instructors -- "Listen up group -- tree level five, moss hazard orange!" We also have special hand signals. I can send you course materials if you're interested. We also have a certification in pot hole detection and avoidance. "Group -- pot hole level six, maximum hazard avoidance protocol!" I can't disclose the protocol because it is copyrighted, but it will prevent you from hitting another pot hole in your life, even in Quebec, or up there, le hole du pot.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 at 10:11:48 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/19/2018 12:33 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2018 at 11:52:11 PM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
People can crash just riding along -- even the mayor.
https://bikeportland.org/2017/11/16/portland-mayor-ted-wheeler-breaks-ribs-in-bicycle-crash-254716

The mayor's statement indicates that his braking action could have been
executed in a more careful manner. Just as a random $89.85 for a "quality"
helmet could have been better spent on tires working well in Portland
November, the 5.885 extra seconds (compared to a wet-weather hat) Mr. Walker
spent adjusting his foam hijab would have been better spent to initiate his
braking earlier. And, as this thread has already been driven deep into ribs
helmet advocacy territory, I'll boldly claim there is a corresponding 85%
chance Mr. Wheeler was not using the area of the road regularly cleaned by
car tires in his maneuver.

You can boldly claim whatever you want, but as you can see, Mr. Wheeler rides big rubber. He was riding the same roads where I fell and broke ribs and whacked my head, which is the usual fall mechanism when you have a low side crash on 100 year old broken cement pavement that has been reduced to polished rock -- with a river running down a 7-15% grade. Wheel tracks are just channels. Alternative route to work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJRnwgPa6rM&t=119s (including trail). Coming down is tricky when it is storming. I was doing nothing unusual when I crashed -- on worn-in 28mm tires, JRA. Scene of the crime: https://tinyurl.com/yagxzbws Flip around and check out the pavement -- it's enough to loosen your fillings.

I've been riding next to skilled riders who crashed on the same road in the same place in the same turn at the same moderate speed just because they hit some unseen turtle **** or moss. You try to stay out from under the trees, but some places that's impossible. Whatever you views on helmets, every crash is not a matter of rider ineptitude.

OK, aside from the crash caused by the tandem fork suddenly breaking
off, my only other moving on-road fall happened like this:

It was winter. I was riding home from work down a short steep downtown
hill. (The grade is over 15%, the hill is only 200 feet long, and the
road's since been closed to traffic.) There was lots of road salt on the
surface so I was descending very slowly, less than 10 mph.

I suddenly noticed that the patch of stuff just in front of me wasn't
road salt. Instead it was broken glass. I swerved rightward to avoid it.
My front tire slipped on the road salt and I fell. I scratched my knee
and tore my windbreaker.

I didn't say "That was an act of God." I didn't say "Nobody could have
avoided that." Instead I said "Damn; I screwed up."

I try hard to not screw up.

I hit a submerged pot hole, went OTB, separated my shoulder, knocked myself out and cut my face -- but not my head or anywhere under my helmet, which was wrecked. I did not blame myself for being unable to see through standing water at night in a rainstorm. I suppose I could have walked home. I don't think Garmin makes sonar. I'll look into that.

BTW, low-side crashes (like my crash in the West Hills) can just happen and may or may not result in a head strike -- usually not, but they can. I'm not talking about a situation where you screw up, try to correct and then go down. You just go down due to loss of traction, often when traction was previously good. Culprits can be invisible like oil or even a change in pavement surface, crack seal, black ice, etc. There is no warning, no nothing. You hope the whole road is slick so you can just hockey puck and not get torn up. The skill move is not locking up the front brake and turning a relatively innocuous low-side crash into a high side crash. https://www.youtube..com/watch?v=BpymMb2M4OE&t=34s


-- Jay Beattie.

John B Slocomb wrote:

One of the problems is that it isn't a simple
A=B equation. Was the guy with (or without)
the helmet drinking or taking dope? Were the
helmet wearers (non wearers) obeying the
traffic code? Was it night (day), did that
make a difference?

This isn't a helmet problem at all, almost
every study I've read eliminated some
variables in order to attempt to get a viable
answer to the question of Why?

Or, to be honest, in some cases to the
question, "Is this going to show what I want
it to"?

Nah, I think it is possible to conduct
investigations that aren't biased and give
a good enough indication. I think there are
plenty enough of good researchers around the
globe to carry that off.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 at 10:00:31 AM UTC-7, duane wrote:
On 19/06/2018 12:33 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2018 at 11:52:11 PM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
People can crash just riding along -- even the mayor.
https://bikeportland.org/2017/11/16/portland-mayor-ted-wheeler-breaks-ribs-in-bicycle-crash-254716

The mayor's statement indicates that his braking action could have been
executed in a more careful manner. Just as a random $89.85 for a "quality"
helmet could have been better spent on tires working well in Portland
November, the 5.885 extra seconds (compared to a wet-weather hat) Mr. Walker
spent adjusting his foam hijab would have been better spent to initiate his
braking earlier. And, as this thread has already been driven deep into ribs
helmet advocacy territory, I'll boldly claim there is a corresponding 85%
chance Mr. Wheeler was not using the area of the road regularly cleaned by
car tires in his maneuver.

You can boldly claim whatever you want, but as you can see, Mr. Wheeler
rides big rubber. He was riding the same roads where I fell and broke
ribs and whacked my head, which is the usual fall mechanism when you
have a low side crash on 100 year old broken cement pavement that has
been reduced to polished rock -- with a river running down a 7-15%
grade. Wheel tracks are just channels. Alternative route to work:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJRnwgPa6rM&t9s (including trail).
Coming down is tricky when it is storming. I was doing nothing unusual
when I crashed -- on worn-in 28mm tires, JRA. Scene of the crime:
https://tinyurl.com/yagxzbws Flip around and check out the pavement --
it's enough to loosen your fillings.


Meh, that would be a luxury road in Quebec. Check around Morin Heights,
Sutton or more north toward Tremblant. You spend hours climbing and
then have to brake on the descents because of the potholes.

I've been riding next to skilled riders who crashed on the same road in
the same place in the same turn at the same moderate speed just because
they hit some unseen turtle **** or moss. You try to stay out from
under the trees, but some places that's impossible. Whatever you views
on helmets, every crash is not a matter of rider ineptitude.



Well you could have been creeping along looking for the turtle **** or
moss. Or you could refuse to ride roads with tree cover.

I'm actually a level four instructor (with oak leaf cluster) of
turtle-****/moss detection, certified by the Slick Roads Cycling Academy.
I now train other instructors -- "Listen up group -- tree level five,
moss hazard orange!" We also have special hand signals. I can send you
course materials if you're interested. We also have a certification in
pot hole detection and avoidance. "Group -- pot hole level six, maximum
hazard avoidance protocol!" I can't disclose the protocol because it is
copyrighted, but it will prevent you from hitting another pot hole in
your life, even in Quebec, or up there, le hole du pot.


Nah le hole du pot might have a new meaning here lately but potholes are
“des nids-de-poule.�

But anyway I’d be happy to help translate your material. More education is
needed to stem the flow of stupid cyclists getting rear ended by drunks and
idiots. If those cyclists would only learn!

--
duane

On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 00:27:38 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Are we really supposed to prioritize plastic hats over "get some
sense, please!"?

Well... yes. Products instead of sense is a profitable approach, and
that is the bedrock of capitalism. Common sense usually reduces profits
for the sale of non-essential products.

On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 at 3:40:52 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 00:27:38 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Are we really supposed to prioritize plastic hats over "get some
sense, please!"?

Well... yes. Products instead of sense is a profitable approach, and
that is the bedrock of capitalism. Common sense usually reduces profits
for the sale of non-essential products.

I have both -- common sense and a plastic hat. I got my plastic hat on sale, which is just common sense. It is gray and goes with everything -- common sensical and fashion sensible!

PS -- I was talking to Richard Painter on Friday. What a hoot. I'd vote for him. I know he's the super dark-horse with a "unique" affect, but its Minnesota! He could win!

He gave a presentation to a bunch of lawyers in Sunriver, Oregon -- no notes, no PowerPoint and totally enthralling. The focus was on ethics (he was ethics counsel for Bush 43), but it meandered into a Trump rant. I talked to him for a while afterwards. He's amazingly social for a guy with such a pedigree. He had a really funny bit about running into Dick Cheney in a White House bathroom. The national-class speakers often talk and run. I talked to John Dean last year at the same shindig, and he was also amazingly accessible and engaging.

Then I jumped on my bike and rode up Mt. Bachelor. https://localfreshies.com/wp-content...1-1024x768.jpg That's the 19 mile mark -- three miles to go to the closed ski resort with no open bathrooms.

I didn't die on the descent because I was wearing my plastic hat. It saved my life.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:35:29 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

John B Slocomb wrote:

One of the problems is that it isn't a simple
A=B equation. Was the guy with (or without)
the helmet drinking or taking dope? Were the
helmet wearers (non wearers) obeying the
traffic code? Was it night (day), did that
make a difference?

This isn't a helmet problem at all, almost
every study I've read eliminated some
variables in order to attempt to get a viable
answer to the question of Why?

Or, to be honest, in some cases to the
question, "Is this going to show what I want
it to"?

Nah, I think it is possible to conduct
investigations that aren't biased and give
a good enough indication. I think there are
plenty enough of good researchers around the
globe to carry that off.

Well "Biased"? One study I recently read about here linked helmet use
and alcohol use. i.e., those who wore helmets and those who wore
helmets and drank alcohol.

(Perhaps Frank quoted it?)

It seemed to say that those who drank alcohol and rode bicycles were
at a greater danger then those that wore helmets and rode a bicycle.

There was a California Highway Patrol of a year or so ago that showed
that of the bicyclist/auto impact rate related to unlawful bicycle use
in excess of 50 percent of the events.

Given that neither of these findings were likely to be quite what the
usual helmet study is designed to discover, do we ignore the data?

I might add that a good friend (now dead) worked the last 8 or ten
years of his like as a financial consultant making studies of new
project feasibility. His comment was that "It is damned hard to be
totally objective".

By the way, I seem to remember that the drunk cyclist factor seems to
have been reported by both the New York and the San Francisco
Coroner's offices.

On 6/19/2018 3:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 at 10:11:48 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

OK, aside from the crash caused by the tandem fork suddenly breaking
off, my only other moving on-road fall happened like this:

It was winter. I was riding home from work down a short steep downtown
hill. (The grade is over 15%, the hill is only 200 feet long, and the
road's since been closed to traffic.) There was lots of road salt on the
surface so I was descending very slowly, less than 10 mph.

I suddenly noticed that the patch of stuff just in front of me wasn't
road salt. Instead it was broken glass. I swerved rightward to avoid it.
My front tire slipped on the road salt and I fell. I scratched my knee
and tore my windbreaker.

I didn't say "That was an act of God." I didn't say "Nobody could have
avoided that." Instead I said "Damn; I screwed up."

I try hard to not screw up.

I hit a submerged pot hole, went OTB, separated my shoulder, knocked myself out and cut my face -- but not my head or anywhere under my helmet, which was wrecked. I did not blame myself for being unable to see through standing water at night in a rainstorm. I suppose I could have walked home. I don't think Garmin makes sonar. I'll look into that.

Good plan. You gotta be safe!

BTW, low-side crashes (like my crash in the West Hills) can just happen and may or may not result in a head strike -- usually not, but they can.

Yes, they can. Lots of things _can_ cause head strikes. Most have
nothing at all to do with bicycles. But only for bicycles and
motorcycles does "It can happen" translate to "so you really should wear
a helmet."

I'm not talking about a situation where you screw up, try to correct and then go down. You just go down due to loss of traction, often when traction was previously good.

Yep. That's what happened to me in that incident I described. It felt
like a judo throw.

FWIW, it's also happened to me mountain biking off road, including at
least once due to ice. Back in those days, I figured falling was a
normal part of mountain biking, because I was trying to see what I could
get away with on the bike. Sometimes that involved riding at "eleven
tenths," as they say.

But oddly, while I often wore a helmet mountain biking, I never hit one
on anything other than twigs.

Culprits can be invisible like oil or even a change in pavement surface, crack seal, black ice, etc. There is no warning, no nothing.

I suspect I'm a much more conservative rider than you are. I suspect I
was much more careful even back when I was your age.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 6/19/2018 1:37 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 at 10:00:31 AM UTC-7, duane wrote:
On 19/06/2018 12:33 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2018 at 11:52:11 PM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
People can crash just riding along -- even the mayor.
https://bikeportland.org/2017/11/16/portland-mayor-ted-wheeler-breaks-ribs-in-bicycle-crash-254716

The mayor's statement indicates that his braking action could have been
executed in a more careful manner. Just as a random $89.85 for a "quality"
helmet could have been better spent on tires working well in Portland
November, the 5.885 extra seconds (compared to a wet-weather hat) Mr. Walker
spent adjusting his foam hijab would have been better spent to initiate his
braking earlier. And, as this thread has already been driven deep into ribs
helmet advocacy territory, I'll boldly claim there is a corresponding 85%
chance Mr. Wheeler was not using the area of the road regularly cleaned by
car tires in his maneuver.

You can boldly claim whatever you want, but as you can see, Mr. Wheeler rides big rubber. He was riding the same roads where I fell and broke ribs and whacked my head, which is the usual fall mechanism when you have a low side crash on 100 year old broken cement pavement that has been reduced to polished rock -- with a river running down a 7-15% grade. Wheel tracks are just channels. Alternative route to work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJRnwgPa6rM&t=119s (including trail). Coming down is tricky when it is storming. I was doing nothing unusual when I crashed -- on worn-in 28mm tires, JRA. Scene of the crime: https://tinyurl.com/yagxzbws Flip around and check out the pavement -- it's enough to loosen your fillings.


Meh, that would be a luxury road in Quebec. Check around Morin Heights,
Sutton or more north toward Tremblant. You spend hours climbing and
then have to brake on the descents because of the potholes.

I've been riding next to skilled riders who crashed on the same road in the same place in the same turn at the same moderate speed just because they hit some unseen turtle **** or moss. You try to stay out from under the trees, but some places that's impossible. Whatever you views on helmets, every crash is not a matter of rider ineptitude.



Well you could have been creeping along looking for the turtle **** or
moss. Or you could refuse to ride roads with tree cover.

I'm actually a level four instructor (with oak leaf cluster) of turtle-****/moss detection, certified by the Slick Roads Cycling Academy. I now train other instructors -- "Listen up group -- tree level five, moss hazard orange!" We also have special hand signals. I can send you course materials if you're interested. We also have a certification in pot hole detection and avoidance. "Group -- pot hole level six, maximum hazard avoidance protocol!" I can't disclose the protocol because it is copyrighted, but it will prevent you from hitting another pot hole in your life, even in Quebec, or up there, le hole du pot.

Back in my most avid motorcycling days, my riding buddies and I had a
sort of hand signal to warn following riders about gravel patches.
Again, on a motorcycle I'm also very careful.

My crash record on motorcycles is very similar to my bicycle experience.
One low speed fall when a bungee holding my briefcase popped loose and I
did a bad job bringing the bike to a stop while trying to keep the
briefcase out of the wheel. One low speed off-road fall pulling out from
under a bridge after a thunderstorm, when I learned that wet railroad
tracks have zero coefficient of friction. Never an injury, except a
minor burn from a hot engine or exhaust pipe.

I leave it to the reader to guess how many car crashes I've had. ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 at 8:03:53 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/19/2018 3:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 at 10:11:48 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

OK, aside from the crash caused by the tandem fork suddenly breaking
off, my only other moving on-road fall happened like this:

It was winter. I was riding home from work down a short steep downtown
hill. (The grade is over 15%, the hill is only 200 feet long, and the
road's since been closed to traffic.) There was lots of road salt on the
surface so I was descending very slowly, less than 10 mph.

I suddenly noticed that the patch of stuff just in front of me wasn't
road salt. Instead it was broken glass. I swerved rightward to avoid it.