Shimano headset with hose clamp (for Frank)

On 6/3/2016 8:07 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-03 14:18, sms wrote:
On 6/2/2016 5:24 PM, Joerg wrote:
As promised here is the pic of the hose clamp "solution" for a Shiomano
headset that used to come loose all the time:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Hoseclamp.JPG

Some day I'll re-do it by underlaying something up front so the whole
thing is flush with the bottom ring. Long story short I rode 60mi with
that and this included dirt roads, bush paths and dilapidated highway
surfaces. In the past the headset was guaranteed to come loose on each
of them. No more. So I guess we can conclude that this redneck fix
works.

Ok, it doesn't look great and I'll probably get a new headset some day
but for right now the problem is ... gone.

Do you have cars up on blocks in your front yard?


No, my wife is a neat freak and would not tolerate that.

Speaking of rednecks: In rural NE Alabama, it was common to see junk
cars tipped on their sides in front yards. I was told it was easier to
cannibalize the parts that way.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2016-06-03 18:12, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/3/2016 8:07 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-03 14:18, sms wrote:
On 6/2/2016 5:24 PM, Joerg wrote:
As promised here is the pic of the hose clamp "solution" for a Shiomano
headset that used to come loose all the time:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Hoseclamp.JPG

Some day I'll re-do it by underlaying something up front so the whole
thing is flush with the bottom ring. Long story short I rode 60mi with
that and this included dirt roads, bush paths and dilapidated highway
surfaces. In the past the headset was guaranteed to come loose on each
of them. No more. So I guess we can conclude that this redneck fix
works.

Ok, it doesn't look great and I'll probably get a new headset some day
but for right now the problem is ... gone.

Do you have cars up on blocks in your front yard?


No, my wife is a neat freak and would not tolerate that.

Speaking of rednecks: In rural NE Alabama, it was common to see junk
cars tipped on their sides in front yards. I was told it was easier to
cannibalize the parts that way.


When a friend needed to do major work on his Fiat 500 (the old original
one) he made it a nest and rolled it on its side. Of course, after
removing the battery and oil.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 6/4/2016 10:40 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-03 18:12, Frank Krygowski wrote:


Speaking of rednecks: In rural NE Alabama, it was common to see junk
cars tipped on their sides in front yards. I was told it was easier to
cannibalize the parts that way.


When a friend needed to do major work on his Fiat 500 (the old original
one) he made it a nest and rolled it on its side. Of course, after
removing the battery and oil.

Your friend would quickly make friends in northeast Alabama.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2016-06-03 00:16, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 12:39:21 AM UTC-4, James wrote:
On 03/06/16 10:24, Joerg wrote:
As promised here is the pic of the hose clamp "solution" for a
Shiomano headset that used to come loose all the time:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Hoseclamp.JPG

Some day I'll re-do it by underlaying something up front so the
whole thing is flush with the bottom ring. Long story short I
rode 60mi with that and this included dirt roads, bush paths and
dilapidated highway surfaces. In the past the headset was
guaranteed to come loose on each of them. No more. So I guess we
can conclude that this redneck fix works.

Ok, it doesn't look great and I'll probably get a new headset
some day but for right now the problem is ... gone.


Ghastly. Fix it properly. I've had one of those headsets. It
didn't come loose all the time, no matter what roads I rode on.

-- JS

I think that Joerg rode it ao often and so far with it being "Finger
Tight" that he's knackered the headset threads and it'll no longer
tighten and stay tight.


I find it amazing how people venture to make a diagnostic statement
across thousands of miles which is then flat wrong.

After this hose clamp fix the headset is adjusted just right, has no
play in either direction and also not the slightest hint of indexing.
The steering turns freely and the bike has good hands-off behavior. So
can you tell me what exactly is knackered?

The only reason why I'd ever replace it is going to be cosmetic and that
is very low on the priority list.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Saturday, June 4, 2016 at 11:38:09 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-03 00:16, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 12:39:21 AM UTC-4, James wrote:
On 03/06/16 10:24, Joerg wrote:
As promised here is the pic of the hose clamp "solution" for a
Shiomano headset that used to come loose all the time:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Hoseclamp.JPG

Some day I'll re-do it by underlaying something up front so the
whole thing is flush with the bottom ring. Long story short I
rode 60mi with that and this included dirt roads, bush paths and
dilapidated highway surfaces. In the past the headset was
guaranteed to come loose on each of them. No more. So I guess we
can conclude that this redneck fix works.

Ok, it doesn't look great and I'll probably get a new headset
some day but for right now the problem is ... gone.


Ghastly. Fix it properly. I've had one of those headsets. It
didn't come loose all the time, no matter what roads I rode on.

-- JS

I think that Joerg rode it ao often and so far with it being "Finger
Tight" that he's knackered the headset threads and it'll no longer
tighten and stay tight.


I find it amazing how people venture to make a diagnostic statement
across thousands of miles which is then flat wrong.

After this hose clamp fix the headset is adjusted just right, has no
play in either direction and also not the slightest hint of indexing.
The steering turns freely and the bike has good hands-off behavior. So
can you tell me what exactly is knackered?

The only reason why I'd ever replace it is going to be cosmetic and that
is very low on the priority list.

It is an abomination. An offense against God. You shall be smitten by His mountain lions. Mark my words.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 6/4/2016 2:38 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-03 00:16, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 12:39:21 AM UTC-4, James wrote:
On 03/06/16 10:24, Joerg wrote:
As promised here is the pic of the hose clamp "solution" for a
Shiomano headset that used to come loose all the time:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Hoseclamp.JPG

Some day I'll re-do it by underlaying something up front so the
whole thing is flush with the bottom ring. Long story short I
rode 60mi with that and this included dirt roads, bush paths and
dilapidated highway surfaces. In the past the headset was
guaranteed to come loose on each of them. No more. So I guess we
can conclude that this redneck fix works.

Ok, it doesn't look great and I'll probably get a new headset
some day but for right now the problem is ... gone.


Ghastly. Fix it properly. I've had one of those headsets. It
didn't come loose all the time, no matter what roads I rode on.

-- JS

I think that Joerg rode it ao often and so far with it being "Finger
Tight" that he's knackered the headset threads and it'll no longer
tighten and stay tight.


I find it amazing how people venture to make a diagnostic statement
across thousands of miles which is then flat wrong.

After this hose clamp fix the headset is adjusted just right, has no
play in either direction and also not the slightest hint of indexing.
The steering turns freely and the bike has good hands-off behavior. So
can you tell me what exactly is knackered?

The only reason why I'd ever replace it is going to be cosmetic and that
is very low on the priority list.

I'm curious about the exact function of the hose clamp. Is it to
prevent the (top) lock nut from rotating with respect to the main
adjustable race?


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2016-06-04 12:33, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, June 4, 2016 at 11:38:09 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-03 00:16, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 12:39:21 AM UTC-4, James wrote:
On 03/06/16 10:24, Joerg wrote:
As promised here is the pic of the hose clamp "solution" for
a Shiomano headset that used to come loose all the time:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Hoseclamp.JPG

Some day I'll re-do it by underlaying something up front so
the whole thing is flush with the bottom ring. Long story
short I rode 60mi with that and this included dirt roads,
bush paths and dilapidated highway surfaces. In the past the
headset was guaranteed to come loose on each of them. No
more. So I guess we can conclude that this redneck fix
works.

Ok, it doesn't look great and I'll probably get a new
headset some day but for right now the problem is ... gone.


Ghastly. Fix it properly. I've had one of those headsets.
It didn't come loose all the time, no matter what roads I rode
on.

-- JS

I think that Joerg rode it ao often and so far with it being
"Finger Tight" that he's knackered the headset threads and it'll
no longer tighten and stay tight.


I find it amazing how people venture to make a diagnostic
statement across thousands of miles which is then flat wrong.

After this hose clamp fix the headset is adjusted just right, has
no play in either direction and also not the slightest hint of
indexing. The steering turns freely and the bike has good hands-off
behavior. So can you tell me what exactly is knackered?

The only reason why I'd ever replace it is going to be cosmetic and
that is very low on the priority list.

It is an abomination. An offense against God. You shall be smitten by
His mountain lions. Mark my words.


Oh, and did I ever confess that I switched out the classic Shimano loop
pedals on this road bike against ... gasp ... mountain bike pedals?

There are many more abominations. Like chunks of an old MTB tire (one
that spectacularly blew) between panniers and rack, to muffle the
rattling on rough roads. It's got an MTB saddle as well. Two lights up
front, three in back. Also an MP3 player with speaker and Bluetooth for
which a friend made a Delrin clamp that clamps it to the steerer tube.
White Delrin on a blue frame, because that's what was there. Looks odd
but it sure works. Maybe I'll stick a brewpub bumper sticker on it.

The handlebar tape is all in tatters. I have new tape but just haven't
gotten around to it. Though in the summer the plain aluminum feels
uncomfortable as a grip so I'll have to.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2016-06-04 12:40, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/4/2016 2:38 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-03 00:16, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 12:39:21 AM UTC-4, James wrote:
On 03/06/16 10:24, Joerg wrote:
As promised here is the pic of the hose clamp "solution" for a
Shiomano headset that used to come loose all the time:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Hoseclamp.JPG

Some day I'll re-do it by underlaying something up front so the
whole thing is flush with the bottom ring. Long story short I
rode 60mi with that and this included dirt roads, bush paths and
dilapidated highway surfaces. In the past the headset was
guaranteed to come loose on each of them. No more. So I guess we
can conclude that this redneck fix works.

Ok, it doesn't look great and I'll probably get a new headset
some day but for right now the problem is ... gone.


Ghastly. Fix it properly. I've had one of those headsets. It
didn't come loose all the time, no matter what roads I rode on.

-- JS

I think that Joerg rode it ao often and so far with it being "Finger
Tight" that he's knackered the headset threads and it'll no longer
tighten and stay tight.


I find it amazing how people venture to make a diagnostic statement
across thousands of miles which is then flat wrong.

After this hose clamp fix the headset is adjusted just right, has no
play in either direction and also not the slightest hint of indexing.
The steering turns freely and the bike has good hands-off behavior. So
can you tell me what exactly is knackered?

The only reason why I'd ever replace it is going to be cosmetic and that
is very low on the priority list.

I'm curious about the exact function of the hose clamp. Is it to
prevent the (top) lock nut from rotating with respect to the main
adjustable race?


Yes. Which means that it could theoretically still come loose. But this
would require both nuts to turn in unison and that just doesn't seem to
happen. It was always the top one coming loose first, way loose, and
then the main one gradually followed.

It works but I agree that it does not look pretty.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Saturday, June 4, 2016 at 2:38:09 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-03 00:16, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 12:39:21 AM UTC-4, James wrote:
On 03/06/16 10:24, Joerg wrote:
As promised here is the pic of the hose clamp "solution" for a
Shiomano headset that used to come loose all the time:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Hoseclamp.JPG

Some day I'll re-do it by underlaying something up front so the
whole thing is flush with the bottom ring. Long story short I
rode 60mi with that and this included dirt roads, bush paths and
dilapidated highway surfaces. In the past the headset was
guaranteed to come loose on each of them. No more. So I guess we
can conclude that this redneck fix works.

Ok, it doesn't look great and I'll probably get a new headset
some day but for right now the problem is ... gone.


Ghastly. Fix it properly. I've had one of those headsets. It
didn't come loose all the time, no matter what roads I rode on.

-- JS

I think that Joerg rode it ao often and so far with it being "Finger
Tight" that he's knackered the headset threads and it'll no longer
tighten and stay tight.


I find it amazing how people venture to make a diagnostic statement
across thousands of miles which is then flat wrong.

After this hose clamp fix the headset is adjusted just right, has no
play in either direction and also not the slightest hint of indexing.
The steering turns freely and the bike has good hands-off behavior. So
can you tell me what exactly is knackered?

The only reason why I'd ever replace it is going to be cosmetic and that
is very low on the priority list.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Sure. The threads on either the headset cup or the headset lockring have to be damaged if they don't stay tight when/if the headset is properly adjusted. They should NOT NEED a hose clamp to stay tight. If they do then it's beyond obvious that something somewhere is damaged.

Cheers

On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 14:53:34 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Saturday, June 4, 2016 at 2:38:09 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-03 00:16, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 12:39:21 AM UTC-4, James wrote:
On 03/06/16 10:24, Joerg wrote:
As promised here is the pic of the hose clamp "solution" for a
Shiomano headset that used to come loose all the time:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Hoseclamp.JPG

Some day I'll re-do it by underlaying something up front so the
whole thing is flush with the bottom ring. Long story short I
rode 60mi with that and this included dirt roads, bush paths and
dilapidated highway surfaces. In the past the headset was
guaranteed to come loose on each of them. No more. So I guess we
can conclude that this redneck fix works.

Ok, it doesn't look great and I'll probably get a new headset
some day but for right now the problem is ... gone.


Ghastly. Fix it properly. I've had one of those headsets. It
didn't come loose all the time, no matter what roads I rode on.

-- JS

I think that Joerg rode it ao often and so far with it being "Finger
Tight" that he's knackered the headset threads and it'll no longer
tighten and stay tight.


I find it amazing how people venture to make a diagnostic statement
across thousands of miles which is then flat wrong.

After this hose clamp fix the headset is adjusted just right, has no
play in either direction and also not the slightest hint of indexing.
The steering turns freely and the bike has good hands-off behavior. So
can you tell me what exactly is knackered?

The only reason why I'd ever replace it is going to be cosmetic and that
is very low on the priority list.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Sure. The threads on either the headset cup or the headset lockring have to be damaged if they don't stay tight when/if the headset is properly adjusted. They should NOT NEED a hose clamp to stay tight. If they do then it's beyond obvious that something somewhere is damaged.

Cheers

The head set he describes has, I believe, an aluminum lock nut and
aluminum being softer then steel will easily either wear or, perhaps
strip, the threads whereupon its ability to "lock" the threads becomes
nil.

I can't remember the price the last time I bought a head set but
Amazon has them for as low as $10 (I'm sure that I've bought them
cheaper) and I wonder that would have been the results of buying a new
headset and using the lock nut from that ?

But, of course, even an "all stainless" hose clamp is a cheaper
solution.
--
cheers,

John B.