average lifespan of a rear derailleur

Frank Krygowski wrote:

I believe it's because with fewer speeds,
there's usually more space between the cogs.

.... OK? What's the implication of that?
Does the chain nag the sprocket if it moves
more closely from one to the other when
shifting? Surely, when you are just pedaling,
there is no "collateral damage" to
other sprockets?!

I have one folding bike that has nine rear
cogs and index shifting. I find that folding
and unfolding the bike sometimes upsets the
index shifting for a while, until things
settle down. I assume it's because of the
flexing of the long shift cable housings.
I doubt that would make a practical
difference if the cogs were spaced wider,
with fewer speeds.

Are there such robust 5 or 6 casettes to buy
today, new? I think I would like a 1x bike with
such a casette, for urban use and infrequent
shifting with focus on reliability and
sustainability... Not for any real functional
advantage compared to the coaster brake, just
to make it a bit more fun/exciting to ride.

BTW what chain would you then use? 7.8mm?
And what chain for the Shimano Positron 2x5?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

On 31/01/18 08:17, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/30/2018 3:10 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, January 30, 2018 at 7:56:37 AM UTC-5, patrick wrote:
I bought a used but never assembledÂ* performer recumbent bike (one of
2 the guy was selling) and apparently he mixed the components- I got
aÂ* sram x5 derailleur and a sram attack shifter (meant for shimano
derailleur). Since I have mostly shimano stuff, IÂ* used a miscroshift
der (actually a rebranded performance forte der. I got 10,000 miles
on that before the pivots had been worn to the point of giving very
sloppyy shifting. I then went up a grade to the xe marvo der. and am
now another 20,000 miles further down the road with the der
approaching the same worn pivots. since I haven't used a shimano
deore on it (9sp BTW), am considering using one - nother 10 dollars
or so more money for the deore. Am I expecting too much in mileage
for a rear derailleur?I ride in sunny southern california on riverbed
mup trails- typically about 150 miles/week. The trails are swept once
a week so there's always a fine grit that's depositedÂ* on the bike
and I'm pretty good on the maintanence of the
bike so the wear isn't from abuse or neglect.Â*Â*Â* Thanks, Pat

I have a Campagnolo Nuovo Record that I bought in 1974. It still shifts
just as badly after all these years. (I have had to replace its jockey
wheels.)

Quoting my assembly warehouse manager Lorri Spitz around 1984/5, the era
of Suntour/Shimano innovation, "Campagnolo doesn't shift. But it doesn't
shift _forever_."



My brother, racing in Italy, was descending a mountain in the wet on a
bike with Campy brakes (delta IIRC). He came up on another rider before
a bend he could not slow down for, put his arm around the other rider's
shoulders and said "Campagnolo! Campgnolo!". The other rider understood
and braked for both of them with his Shimano brakes and they cornered
safely together.

This was back in the late 80s or early 90s. A lot has changed since. I
have no problem braking with Campag brakes or changing gears with Campag
shifters and derailleurs these days.

Also, my rear derailleur has been in service for ... I forget how many
years and tens of thousands of kilometres. It may be as old as my steel
frame, over 75,000km at the moment.


--
JS

I'm wondering if the fact that I wet lube the pivots might be beckoning the grit into the joints- accelerating the demise of the pivot pins. Perhaps I should be lubing with a dry lube or very sparingly... Must be some reason (other than I'm buying crap) for the pivots to get sloppy so fast!
Regards,Pat

On 2018-01-30 06:11, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/30/2018 6:56 AM, patrick wrote:
I bought a used but never assembled performer recumbent bike (one of
2 the guy was selling) and apparently he mixed the components- I got
a sram x5 derailleur and a sram attack shifter (meant for shimano
derailleur). Since I have mostly shimano stuff, I used a miscroshift
der (actually a rebranded performance forte der. I got 10,000 miles on
that before the pivots had been worn to the point of giving very
sloppyy shifting. I then went up a grade to the xe marvo der. and am
now another 20,000 miles further down the road with the der
approaching the same worn pivots. since I haven't used a shimano deore
on it (9sp BTW), am considering using one - nother 10 dollars or so
more money for the deore. Am I expecting too much in mileage for a
rear derailleur?I ride in sunny southern california on riverbed mup
trails- typically about 150 miles/week. The trails are swept once a
week so there's always a fine grit that's deposited on the bike and
I'm pretty good on the maintanence of the b
ike so the wear isn't from abuse or neglect. Thanks, Pat



Deore are better than most in longevity, about as tough a changer as
there is nowadays.


Until a fist-sized rock gets kicked up by the front wheel and flies into
it. Though I have to say that I was able to bend the Deore derailer on
my MTB back many times. It looks horrid but so far still shifts ok.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 31/01/18 11:38, patrick wrote:
I'm wondering if the fact that I wet lube the pivots might be
beckoning the grit into the joints- accelerating the demise of the
pivot pins. Perhaps I should be lubing with a dry lube or very
sparingly... Must be some reason (other than I'm buying crap) for the
pivots to get sloppy so fast! Regards,Pat


Maybe. I very rarely do anything to derailleurs on my bicycles. I
sometimes remove the jockey wheels to properly clean them and the cage,
and lube the plain bearings with not runny lube.

I took the main pivot/bolt out that connects the derailleur to the
dropout, and there was nice clean grease in there still from the
manufacturer. A little soapy water and fresh water rinse is all I use,
and no high pressure cleaners.

--
JS

On Tuesday, January 30, 2018 at 9:22:07 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/30/2018 11:32 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
sms wrote:

Deore are better than most in longevity,
about as tough a changer as there
is nowadays.

I had a Deore front shifter fail after only
twelve years. Sounds like a long time, but
it's on a mountain bike that I probably rode
not more than 500 miles.

Well, when you speak of how long something will
last on a bike, do you typically refer to time,
distance, riding style, weather conditions, all
of the above, or something else?

I'd say all of the above, which makes the concept of average life pretty
meaningless. I'd expect the low end of the scale - except for mountain
bikes - would be Jay Beattie's everyday commuting including steep hills
and some forest paths in all kinds of weather. I'd expect the high end
would be, well, a guy who rode only on level trails in nice dry Southern
California.

I'm currently using a 600EX front derailleur on my commuter. It's probably 30 years old, but it replaced a newer Ultegra derailleur. Oddly enough, I wore through the cage with chain rub. That's the deal when your bike is caked in mud. You don't notice chain rub, and I think the sheer number of shifts got it too. The 600EX is kludgy, but it works. It's my third or fourth front derailleur in the last 15 years.

My RD is similar vintage, but only because I wore out a more modern Ultegra 10sp. It got so sloppy that it barely shifted after maybe five or six years. I'm running old 9sp shifters. The old 8sp derailleur works fine with 9sp shifters, but not great. Good enough. It's my third RD in the last 15 years.

When I rebuilt the CX commuter with the new frame (after breaking the prior frame), I threw on a SRAM Red BB30 CF crank that I took off my broken SuperSix. This is what I hate about warranty replacements: my broken frame had a threaded BB, and the replacement is BB30, so I scavenged the BB30 crank off the SuperSix. That crank lasted six months on my commuter and then broke -- the pedal insert loosened and cracked through to the end of the crank arm. POS. I had an FSA do the same thing on another bike.

I just put on a $95 105 crank with Wheels Mfg. adapters. That's the fifth crank in the last 15 years on my commuter. I changed the original out because it was ISIS, and I was blowing through BBs. The second was an Ultegra, and it broke (crank arm while out of the saddle). Third crank was a Praxis Works M30 taken off my Roubaix that was stolen. That crank is in a box because of the proprietary dimensions. I don't want to buy the special bearings. The SRAM Red broke.

I've got boxes of old parts and use them on the commuter. It's a parts eater. If I upgrade to 10sp or above, I can't use all the old parts -- but I'm not going to upgrade until the shifters die, which may be never . . . or may be tomorrow.

Another gripe is that the new frame is intended for hydraulic discs, and for cable discs, you have to use housing for the entire run, and it adds a lot of drag.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 5:35:07 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 30, 2018 at 9:22:07 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/30/2018 11:32 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
sms wrote:

Deore are better than most in longevity,
about as tough a changer as there
is nowadays.

I had a Deore front shifter fail after only
twelve years. Sounds like a long time, but
it's on a mountain bike that I probably rode
not more than 500 miles.

Well, when you speak of how long something will
last on a bike, do you typically refer to time,
distance, riding style, weather conditions, all
of the above, or something else?

I'd say all of the above, which makes the concept of average life pretty
meaningless. I'd expect the low end of the scale - except for mountain
bikes - would be Jay Beattie's everyday commuting including steep hills
and some forest paths in all kinds of weather. I'd expect the high end
would be, well, a guy who rode only on level trails in nice dry Southern
California.

I'm currently using a 600EX front derailleur on my commuter. It's probably 30 years old, but it replaced a newer Ultegra derailleur. Oddly enough, I wore through the cage with chain rub. That's the deal when your bike is caked in mud. You don't notice chain rub, and I think the sheer number of shifts got it too. The 600EX is kludgy, but it works. It's my third or fourth front derailleur in the last 15 years.

My RD is similar vintage, but only because I wore out a more modern Ultegra 10sp. It got so sloppy that it barely shifted after maybe five or six years. I'm running old 9sp shifters. The old 8sp derailleur works fine with 9sp shifters, but not great. Good enough. It's my third RD in the last 15 years.

When I rebuilt the CX commuter with the new frame (after breaking the prior frame), I threw on a SRAM Red BB30 CF crank that I took off my broken SuperSix. This is what I hate about warranty replacements: my broken frame had a threaded BB, and the replacement is BB30, so I scavenged the BB30 crank off the SuperSix. That crank lasted six months on my commuter and then broke -- the pedal insert loosened and cracked through to the end of the crank arm. POS. I had an FSA do the same thing on another bike.

I just put on a $95 105 crank with Wheels Mfg. adapters. That's the fifth crank in the last 15 years on my commuter. I changed the original out because it was ISIS, and I was blowing through BBs. The second was an Ultegra, and it broke (crank arm while out of the saddle). Third crank was a Praxis Works M30 taken off my Roubaix that was stolen. That crank is in a box because of the proprietary dimensions. I don't want to buy the special bearings. The SRAM Red broke.

I've got boxes of old parts and use them on the commuter. It's a parts eater. If I upgrade to 10sp or above, I can't use all the old parts -- but I'm not going to upgrade until the shifters die, which may be never . . . or may be tomorrow.

Another gripe is that the new frame is intended for hydraulic discs, and for cable discs, you have to use housing for the entire run, and it adds a lot of drag.

-- Jay Beattie.

Wow.. I never wore out a RD except for the jockey wheels, only one FD, never broke a crank or pedals. Maybe that is the advantage of living in a dead flat country where I shift maybe 2-4 times a ride. On the other hand off road I shift the crap out of my RD.
A Deore 9 speed RD cost 30-35 euro on this side of the pond. Great value for money and I would not go for less. With that kind of money I would not worry about a lifetime of 10000 miles.

Lou

wrote:

A Deore 9 speed RD cost 30-35 euro on this side of the pond. Great value
for money and I would not go for less. With that kind of money I would not
worry about a lifetime of 10000 miles.

Depending on how an area's recycling or scrapyard scheme works, Deore RD's
can often be salvaged for about 5 minutes' worth: From never-hosed,
never-WD40'd, and stupidly (rarely shifted) ridden, quickly trashed
mtb-resembling objects, the RD's Deore name once having served as the lone
star in an otherwise third-rate "gruppo combo."

On Tuesday, January 30, 2018 at 11:23:40 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 5:35:07 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 30, 2018 at 9:22:07 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/30/2018 11:32 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
sms wrote:

Deore are better than most in longevity,
about as tough a changer as there
is nowadays.

I had a Deore front shifter fail after only
twelve years. Sounds like a long time, but
it's on a mountain bike that I probably rode
not more than 500 miles.

Well, when you speak of how long something will
last on a bike, do you typically refer to time,
distance, riding style, weather conditions, all
of the above, or something else?

I'd say all of the above, which makes the concept of average life pretty
meaningless. I'd expect the low end of the scale - except for mountain
bikes - would be Jay Beattie's everyday commuting including steep hills
and some forest paths in all kinds of weather. I'd expect the high end
would be, well, a guy who rode only on level trails in nice dry Southern
California.

I'm currently using a 600EX front derailleur on my commuter. It's probably 30 years old, but it replaced a newer Ultegra derailleur. Oddly enough, I wore through the cage with chain rub. That's the deal when your bike is caked in mud. You don't notice chain rub, and I think the sheer number of shifts got it too. The 600EX is kludgy, but it works. It's my third or fourth front derailleur in the last 15 years.

My RD is similar vintage, but only because I wore out a more modern Ultegra 10sp. It got so sloppy that it barely shifted after maybe five or six years. I'm running old 9sp shifters. The old 8sp derailleur works fine with 9sp shifters, but not great. Good enough. It's my third RD in the last 15 years.

When I rebuilt the CX commuter with the new frame (after breaking the prior frame), I threw on a SRAM Red BB30 CF crank that I took off my broken SuperSix. This is what I hate about warranty replacements: my broken frame had a threaded BB, and the replacement is BB30, so I scavenged the BB30 crank off the SuperSix. That crank lasted six months on my commuter and then broke -- the pedal insert loosened and cracked through to the end of the crank arm. POS. I had an FSA do the same thing on another bike.

I just put on a $95 105 crank with Wheels Mfg. adapters. That's the fifth crank in the last 15 years on my commuter. I changed the original out because it was ISIS, and I was blowing through BBs. The second was an Ultegra, and it broke (crank arm while out of the saddle). Third crank was a Praxis Works M30 taken off my Roubaix that was stolen. That crank is in a box because of the proprietary dimensions. I don't want to buy the special bearings. The SRAM Red broke.

I've got boxes of old parts and use them on the commuter. It's a parts eater. If I upgrade to 10sp or above, I can't use all the old parts -- but I'm not going to upgrade until the shifters die, which may be never . . . or may be tomorrow.

Another gripe is that the new frame is intended for hydraulic discs, and for cable discs, you have to use housing for the entire run, and it adds a lot of drag.

-- Jay Beattie.

Wow.. I never wore out a RD except for the jockey wheels, only one FD, never broke a crank or pedals. Maybe that is the advantage of living in a dead flat country where I shift maybe 2-4 times a ride. On the other hand off road I shift the crap out of my RD.
A Deore 9 speed RD cost 30-35 euro on this side of the pond. Great value for money and I would not go for less. With that kind of money I would not worry about a lifetime of 10000 miles.

You're better at maintaining your bike. I'll ride for months in the rain and do nothing but lube the chain -- and then fix things if they break. I think water and grit really kill RDs.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 1/30/2018 8:35 PM, jbeattie wrote:

When I rebuilt the CX commuter with the new frame (after breaking the prior frame), I threw on a SRAM Red BB30 CF crank that I took off my broken SuperSix. This is what I hate about warranty replacements: my broken frame had a threaded BB, and the replacement is BB30, so I scavenged the BB30 crank off the SuperSix. That crank lasted six months on my commuter and then broke -- the pedal insert loosened and cracked through to the end of the crank arm. POS. I had an FSA do the same thing on another bike.

I just put on a $95 105 crank with Wheels Mfg. adapters. That's the fifth crank in the last 15 years on my commuter. I changed the original out because it was ISIS, and I was blowing through BBs. The second was an Ultegra, and it broke (crank arm while out of the saddle).

I thought I was reading a post from Joerg. You obviously are very hard
on your equipment. Broken frames, broken cranks, broken pedal inserts.
Have you considered a steel frame with more robust components?