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#71
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Don't hassle me - I'm riding my bike
AMuzi writes:
On 7/8/2020 5:39 PM, Radey Shouman wrote: Frank Krygowski writes: On 7/8/2020 9:45 AM, Radey Shouman wrote: When the current pandemic is over there will be a variety of estimates of the death toll as well. That someone died is certain, that he would have lived absent the pandemic not at all. I think the best estimate of fatalities will come from comparing total deaths for the COVID era vs. (say) the five year average of similar months in previous years. The UK total death rate showed a substantial increase at the start of the pandemic, it has been down to normal levels for weeks now. I'm not sure about US total death rates. As always, some judgment will be needed, because people's behavioral changes can have secondary effects. Thank goodness, that will give us something to debate about. There has been a lot of collateral damage, for example people missing chemotherapy or other needed medical treatment. Some of them have died when they would have lived with treatment. More will die, some possibly years in the future because they missed vaccinations during the covid pandemic. You're right. On the other side, clinics, surgery centers, hospitals and notably huge hospital systems are financially stressed for lack of revenue. Until people start buying new knees and bariatric procedures and such, the system won't be able to function. I know that my local hospitals laid off a fairly large fraction of their staff as a result of the pandemic. I'm fairly sure most are still out of work. |
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#72
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Don't hassle me - I'm riding my bike
On Wed, 08 Jul 2020 09:49:39 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote: John B. writes: On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 06:05:11 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone wrote: Radey Shouman wrote: John B. writes: On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 13:09:37 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Friday, July 3, 2020 at 3:12:13 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 7/3/2020 3:53 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/3/2020 3:10 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, July 3, 2020 at 8:47:36 AM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote: AMuzi wrote: https://710wor.iheart.com/content/20...rage-incident/ Detroit needs a mayor who will campaign donating Chinese safety flasher toys to anyone in sight. With any luck some jerks will take the lesson to heart. Like, "Don't go into a Detroit traffic argument armed with a knife!" Exactly, the driver should have been pack'n. It should have been some Quentin Tarantino-esqe shootout. This definitely proves the superiority of handlebar baskets. Just keep your Glock in there with your posies and donettes. Well, there's a tradeoff between a handlebar basket and a handlebar bag. With the basket, the gun's easily visible but it bounces around. Sometimes it slides under the donettes, slowing your draw time. The handlebar bag can have a special holster pocket. But then there are tradeoffs between an inside pocket over an outside pocket. Inside for concealed carry, but you lose a second flipping the bag open. Outside for open carry, but some people get touchy about that. Being a good-old-boy American bicyclist can be complicated! That's why most of them drive pickups. Cyclists's pistols were a very common accessory at one time. It's not an overly complex problem. Upscale model at 12 shillings: https://onlinebicyclemuseum.co.uk/wp...ist-pistol.jpg N.B. Tom in Oakland, tagline: "I fear no tramp." more, many with folding trigger for pocket carry: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bicycle+pi...ages&ia=images That said, urban environments present almost infinite possibilities for trouble and for liability. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 While someone like Frank might hurry his own death along by trying to walk the streets of Oakland I have people offering help whenever they believe they can be of some. Last Wednesday I was talking to a rich man, like most rich a large part was inherited. His Grandmother had a farm in the bay area not long after the civil war when food was big business. And also like most rich he spreads it around as much as possible. He is a surgeon and works for Doctors without Borders. He works mostly in Africa and he talked about how much healthier African Children are than Americans because their immune systems are under constant challenge. Perhaps this is the reason that I have such good health. Traipsing through the salt marshes when I was a kid. I suppose a large part of these marshes were formed as part of the run-off from the cities which could not have been very healthy. We discussed the idea that a cloth mask could possibly even slow down a molecule like a virus and we both got a good laugh out of that (I suppose that he definitely would not fall under Frank's category of "medical expert" I have the distinct impression that what Frank thinks of as an expert is anyone that sits on their ass and reads an occasional study. Frank appears to be unaware that most studies are absolute garbage but then I suppose that is what he taught in college. Poor students. Though they probably learned the art of engineering by practice and not by his meanderings. Virtually everything that has been visited upon this country by the Democrats has been a virtual curse. While walking through those salt marshes I was accompanied by an American kid of Japanese extraction. He grew up in Roosevelt's concentration camps. These were formed in large part so that Roosevelt who was one of the most racist people that ever lived could allow his friends to seize the property of the Japanese/Americans who were rather prosperous up to that time. Exactly what do you suppose goes through the head of a man who has a large guaranteed income when he would tell the working man that he cannot work and cannot provide for his family and must do insane things like wear a mask in public unless he is robbing a bank? Social distancing is much like wearing a mask - an infected person has a cloud of virus molecules surrounding his head and contrary to the highly educated Dr. Fauci's thoughts, these thing do not fall to the ground like a brick dropped off a building. They float pretty much in place in a stream along which you are walking. That means that someone could pass through that very slowly dispersing cloud minutes after you have passed and be exposed. The entire Democrat Party has retained some small remnants of power though the constant threats and fear. Awful environmental impact that is barely measurable, man-made climate change that doesn't exist and now a virus that is virtually harmless. No doubt you are correct and the figures prove it. The U.S. is leading the world! In the larger countries, with a population of 200 million or more, the U.S. is head and shoulders above the rest with 3,085,705 cases of the virus, some 3 times the next highest country; 133,808 deaths, double the numbers of the next closest country;404 deaths per million - y'all are slipping a bit here, only about 30% higher and 9,321/million cases, again slipping back to only about 1-1/4 times the next highest country. Just think, 50% more deaths due to the Virus than all of the U.S.'s military deaths in the past 70 years, from the Korean war to the present. But not much more, and less per capita, than died in the pandemics of 1957 and 1968. But note that the pandemics of 1957 and 1968 had one important difference. They’re over, while the US is still working through their first wave of the current pandemic. Implying that things aren’t that bad now compared to 1957 or 1968 is akin to publishing the death toll from an airplane crash before the plane hits the ground. Too true, in fact from the numbers I see the daily new case rate is higher then at any time previous. On 7 Jul it seems to have been 55,442 new cases. Nope, I was wrong, the highest number of new cases seems to have been on 3 Jul with 58,910 new cases. The death rate, however, continues to decrease. Popular coverage of the pandemic in the US, like everthing else, is now driven almost entirely by politics. Death rate? As in deaths per million population? If so then the death rate is increasing every day. Or do you mean the percent of those diagnosed with the disease who die, in which case it is now 9% I believe. -- Cheers, John B. |
#73
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Don't hassle me - I'm riding my bike
On Wed, 08 Jul 2020 13:10:47 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/8/2020 11:16 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/8/2020 2:05 AM, Ralph Barone wrote: Radey Shouman wrote: But not much more, and less per capita, than died in the pandemics of 1957 and 1968. But note that the pandemics of 1957 and 1968 had one important difference. They’re over, while the US is still working through their first wave of the current pandemic. Implying that things aren’t that bad now compared to 1957 or 1968 is akin to publishing the death toll from an airplane crash before the plane hits the ground. That reminds me of a comment I read about the early re-openings in several states, like Florida and Georgia: "The parachute has slowed our rate of fall, so it's OK to cut it loose." Translation, "We're lounging around home at full pay, just like we used to slough off at the State offices, so we really don't give a damn whether you're working, whether your children eat, whether your mortgage is paid, or not." As I have said a number of times it is easy to criticize and difficult to provide solutions. So, tell us, what is the solution? I might say that Thailand which evoked Emergency Regulation early on and introduced what I'm sure you would consider draconian control measures hasn't had a home grown case of the virus in more then 40 days while the U.S. is reporting new cases in nearly double the numbers of previous months. -- Cheers, John B. |
#74
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Don't hassle me - I'm riding my bike
John B. writes:
On Wed, 08 Jul 2020 09:49:39 -0400, Radey Shouman wrote: John B. writes: On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 06:05:11 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone wrote: Radey Shouman wrote: John B. writes: On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 13:09:37 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Friday, July 3, 2020 at 3:12:13 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 7/3/2020 3:53 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/3/2020 3:10 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, July 3, 2020 at 8:47:36 AM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote: AMuzi wrote: https://710wor.iheart.com/content/20...rage-incident/ Detroit needs a mayor who will campaign donating Chinese safety flasher toys to anyone in sight. With any luck some jerks will take the lesson to heart. Like, "Don't go into a Detroit traffic argument armed with a knife!" Exactly, the driver should have been pack'n. It should have been some Quentin Tarantino-esqe shootout. This definitely proves the superiority of handlebar baskets. Just keep your Glock in there with your posies and donettes. Well, there's a tradeoff between a handlebar basket and a handlebar bag. With the basket, the gun's easily visible but it bounces around. Sometimes it slides under the donettes, slowing your draw time. The handlebar bag can have a special holster pocket. But then there are tradeoffs between an inside pocket over an outside pocket. Inside for concealed carry, but you lose a second flipping the bag open. Outside for open carry, but some people get touchy about that. Being a good-old-boy American bicyclist can be complicated! That's why most of them drive pickups. Cyclists's pistols were a very common accessory at one time. It's not an overly complex problem. Upscale model at 12 shillings: https://onlinebicyclemuseum.co.uk/wp...ist-pistol.jpg N.B. Tom in Oakland, tagline: "I fear no tramp." more, many with folding trigger for pocket carry: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bicycle+pi...ages&ia=images That said, urban environments present almost infinite possibilities for trouble and for liability. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 While someone like Frank might hurry his own death along by trying to walk the streets of Oakland I have people offering help whenever they believe they can be of some. Last Wednesday I was talking to a rich man, like most rich a large part was inherited. His Grandmother had a farm in the bay area not long after the civil war when food was big business. And also like most rich he spreads it around as much as possible. He is a surgeon and works for Doctors without Borders. He works mostly in Africa and he talked about how much healthier African Children are than Americans because their immune systems are under constant challenge. Perhaps this is the reason that I have such good health. Traipsing through the salt marshes when I was a kid. I suppose a large part of these marshes were formed as part of the run-off from the cities which could not have been very healthy. We discussed the idea that a cloth mask could possibly even slow down a molecule like a virus and we both got a good laugh out of that (I suppose that he definitely would not fall under Frank's category of "medical expert" I have the distinct impression that what Frank thinks of as an expert is anyone that sits on their ass and reads an occasional study. Frank appears to be unaware that most studies are absolute garbage but then I suppose that is what he taught in college. Poor students. Though they probably learned the art of engineering by practice and not by his meanderings. Virtually everything that has been visited upon this country by the Democrats has been a virtual curse. While walking through those salt marshes I was accompanied by an American kid of Japanese extraction. He grew up in Roosevelt's concentration camps. These were formed in large part so that Roosevelt who was one of the most racist people that ever lived could allow his friends to seize the property of the Japanese/Americans who were rather prosperous up to that time. Exactly what do you suppose goes through the head of a man who has a large guaranteed income when he would tell the working man that he cannot work and cannot provide for his family and must do insane things like wear a mask in public unless he is robbing a bank? Social distancing is much like wearing a mask - an infected person has a cloud of virus molecules surrounding his head and contrary to the highly educated Dr. Fauci's thoughts, these thing do not fall to the ground like a brick dropped off a building. They float pretty much in place in a stream along which you are walking. That means that someone could pass through that very slowly dispersing cloud minutes after you have passed and be exposed. The entire Democrat Party has retained some small remnants of power though the constant threats and fear. Awful environmental impact that is barely measurable, man-made climate change that doesn't exist and now a virus that is virtually harmless. No doubt you are correct and the figures prove it. The U.S. is leading the world! In the larger countries, with a population of 200 million or more, the U.S. is head and shoulders above the rest with 3,085,705 cases of the virus, some 3 times the next highest country; 133,808 deaths, double the numbers of the next closest country;404 deaths per million - y'all are slipping a bit here, only about 30% higher and 9,321/million cases, again slipping back to only about 1-1/4 times the next highest country. Just think, 50% more deaths due to the Virus than all of the U.S.'s military deaths in the past 70 years, from the Korean war to the present. But not much more, and less per capita, than died in the pandemics of 1957 and 1968. But note that the pandemics of 1957 and 1968 had one important difference. They’re over, while the US is still working through their first wave of the current pandemic. Implying that things aren’t that bad now compared to 1957 or 1968 is akin to publishing the death toll from an airplane crash before the plane hits the ground. Too true, in fact from the numbers I see the daily new case rate is higher then at any time previous. On 7 Jul it seems to have been 55,442 new cases. Nope, I was wrong, the highest number of new cases seems to have been on 3 Jul with 58,910 new cases. The death rate, however, continues to decrease. Popular coverage of the pandemic in the US, like everthing else, is now driven almost entirely by politics. Death rate? As in deaths per million population? If so then the death rate is increasing every day. Or do you mean the percent of those diagnosed with the disease who die, in which case it is now 9% I believe. Deaths per day for a given country/region/whatever. Usually has to be averaged over a week or so, or improvement happens periodically every Friday. |
#75
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Don't hassle me - I'm riding my bike
On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 19:26:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 7/8/2020 6:46 PM, Radey Shouman wrote: Ralph Barone writes: The ongoing and rising polarization in the US has led to the current state where everything which should be discussed on a continuum ends up being reduced to a binary choice and nobody wants to discuss rational compromise solutions for fear of being branded a “splitter” by their tribe. It's really worse than that. No one is willing to entertain the thought that the factual state of the world is in any way different that whatever their in-group believes it to be. I understand your point. I'd object only to the "no one." I straddle the line on many hot button issues, conservative on some, liberal on others. I know others who are the same - not necessarily matching my attitudes, but nevertheless holding a mix of views. Granted, I don't know the percentage who are moderate vs. extreme left vs. extreme right. I suppose Google knows - or claims to. One of the things that bother me is what appears to be a total ignorance of fact in forming an opinion. In the most recent Hoo-Haa, slavery existed in the U.S. from the first settlements and the Civil war was not fought to free the slaves and Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation did not "free the slaves" per se. -- Cheers, John B. |
#76
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Don't hassle me - I'm riding my bike
On 7/8/2020 7:48 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jul 2020 13:10:47 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 7/8/2020 11:16 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/8/2020 2:05 AM, Ralph Barone wrote: Radey Shouman wrote: But not much more, and less per capita, than died in the pandemics of 1957 and 1968. But note that the pandemics of 1957 and 1968 had one important difference. They’re over, while the US is still working through their first wave of the current pandemic. Implying that things aren’t that bad now compared to 1957 or 1968 is akin to publishing the death toll from an airplane crash before the plane hits the ground. That reminds me of a comment I read about the early re-openings in several states, like Florida and Georgia: "The parachute has slowed our rate of fall, so it's OK to cut it loose." Translation, "We're lounging around home at full pay, just like we used to slough off at the State offices, so we really don't give a damn whether you're working, whether your children eat, whether your mortgage is paid, or not." As I have said a number of times it is easy to criticize and difficult to provide solutions. So, tell us, what is the solution? I might say that Thailand which evoked Emergency Regulation early on and introduced what I'm sure you would consider draconian control measures hasn't had a home grown case of the virus in more then 40 days while the U.S. is reporting new cases in nearly double the numbers of previous months. -- Cheers, John B. Variations abound. Japan didn't order businesses closed. New York shipped contagious patients into old age homes, rehab centers and assisted living facilities, neatly dispatching some 5,000 vulnerable elderly. With less volume but more pathos, PA scrunched two wards of elderly and feeble US Veterans into one ward, rotated staff through and killed 76 of them. 'Thanks for your service' as they flippantly say. Bonus points in PA; the Public Health Director moved her own mother to private care the day before ordering contagious patients moved into old age homes. Special. Just special. Makes the citizens want to round up their tax payments next year, eh? -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#77
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Don't hassle me - I'm riding my bike
On Wed, 08 Jul 2020 20:47:04 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/8/2020 7:48 PM, John B. wrote: On Wed, 08 Jul 2020 13:10:47 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 7/8/2020 11:16 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/8/2020 2:05 AM, Ralph Barone wrote: Radey Shouman wrote: But not much more, and less per capita, than died in the pandemics of 1957 and 1968. But note that the pandemics of 1957 and 1968 had one important difference. They’re over, while the US is still working through their first wave of the current pandemic. Implying that things aren’t that bad now compared to 1957 or 1968 is akin to publishing the death toll from an airplane crash before the plane hits the ground. That reminds me of a comment I read about the early re-openings in several states, like Florida and Georgia: "The parachute has slowed our rate of fall, so it's OK to cut it loose." Translation, "We're lounging around home at full pay, just like we used to slough off at the State offices, so we really don't give a damn whether you're working, whether your children eat, whether your mortgage is paid, or not." As I have said a number of times it is easy to criticize and difficult to provide solutions. So, tell us, what is the solution? I might say that Thailand which evoked Emergency Regulation early on and introduced what I'm sure you would consider draconian control measures hasn't had a home grown case of the virus in more then 40 days while the U.S. is reporting new cases in nearly double the numbers of previous months. -- Cheers, John B. Variations abound. Japan didn't order businesses closed. No, you are correct. What they did was ask business's to close and in some cases paid some form of compensation to those that did close. New York shipped contagious patients into old age homes, rehab centers and assisted living facilities, neatly dispatching some 5,000 vulnerable elderly. With less volume but more pathos, PA scrunched two wards of elderly and feeble US Veterans into one ward, rotated staff through and killed 76 of them. 'Thanks for your service' as they flippantly say. Bonus points in PA; the Public Health Director moved her own mother to private care the day before ordering contagious patients moved into old age homes. Special. Just special. Makes the citizens want to round up their tax payments next year, eh? :-) I can't help from smiling about the "old Age Home" as one of the thinks that most Asians find so reprehensible about the U.S. is the shipping of old relatives off to "old Age Homes". In Thailand they have a great deal of difficulty that anyone could be so crass and inhumane as to do such a thing. -- Cheers, John B. |
#78
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Don't hassle me - I'm riding my bike
On 7/8/2020 8:23 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
AMuzi writes: On 7/8/2020 5:39 PM, Radey Shouman wrote: Frank Krygowski writes: On 7/8/2020 9:45 AM, Radey Shouman wrote: When the current pandemic is over there will be a variety of estimates of the death toll as well. That someone died is certain, that he would have lived absent the pandemic not at all. I think the best estimate of fatalities will come from comparing total deaths for the COVID era vs. (say) the five year average of similar months in previous years. The UK total death rate showed a substantial increase at the start of the pandemic, it has been down to normal levels for weeks now. I'm not sure about US total death rates. As always, some judgment will be needed, because people's behavioral changes can have secondary effects. Thank goodness, that will give us something to debate about. There has been a lot of collateral damage, for example people missing chemotherapy or other needed medical treatment. Some of them have died when they would have lived with treatment. More will die, some possibly years in the future because they missed vaccinations during the covid pandemic. You're right. On the other side, clinics, surgery centers, hospitals and notably huge hospital systems are financially stressed for lack of revenue. Until people start buying new knees and bariatric procedures and such, the system won't be able to function. I know that my local hospitals laid off a fairly large fraction of their staff as a result of the pandemic. I'm fairly sure most are still out of work. Well, that's the free market at work. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#79
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Don't hassle me - I'm riding my bike
On 7/8/2020 9:47 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/8/2020 7:48 PM, John B. wrote: On Wed, 08 Jul 2020 13:10:47 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 7/8/2020 11:16 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/8/2020 2:05 AM, Ralph Barone wrote: Radey Shouman wrote: But not much more, and less per capita, than died in the pandemics of 1957 and 1968. But note that the pandemics of 1957 and 1968 had one important difference. They’re over, while the US is still working through their first wave of the current pandemic. Implying that things aren’t that bad now compared to 1957 or 1968 is akin to publishing the death toll from an airplane crash before the plane hits the ground. That reminds me of a comment I read about the early re-openings in several states, like Florida and Georgia: "The parachute has slowed our rate of fall, so it's OK to cut it loose." Translation, "We're lounging around home at full pay, just like we used to slough off at the State offices, so we really don't give a damn whether you're working, whether your children eat, whether your mortgage is paid, or not." As I have said a number of times it is easy to criticize and difficult to provide solutions. So, tell us, what is the solution? I might say that Thailand which evoked Emergency Regulation early on and introduced what I'm sure you would consider draconian control measures hasn't had a home grown case of the virus in more then 40 days while the U.S. is reporting new cases in nearly double the numbers of previous months. -- Cheers, John B. Variations abound. Japan didn't order businesses closed. Sweden didn't either, and now has infection & death stats way worse than its neighbors, and an economy that's barely better than theirs. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#80
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Don't hassle me - I'm riding my bike
On 7/8/2020 9:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 19:26:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/8/2020 6:46 PM, Radey Shouman wrote: Ralph Barone writes: The ongoing and rising polarization in the US has led to the current state where everything which should be discussed on a continuum ends up being reduced to a binary choice and nobody wants to discuss rational compromise solutions for fear of being branded a “splitter” by their tribe. It's really worse than that. No one is willing to entertain the thought that the factual state of the world is in any way different that whatever their in-group believes it to be. I understand your point. I'd object only to the "no one." I straddle the line on many hot button issues, conservative on some, liberal on others. I know others who are the same - not necessarily matching my attitudes, but nevertheless holding a mix of views. Granted, I don't know the percentage who are moderate vs. extreme left vs. extreme right. I suppose Google knows - or claims to. One of the things that bother me is what appears to be a total ignorance of fact in forming an opinion. In the most recent Hoo-Haa, slavery existed in the U.S. from the first settlements and the Civil war was not fought to free the slaves and Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation did not "free the slaves" per se. Slavery existed from the first in the American colonies largely because it existed in nations around the world from time immemorial. I'm not in favor of slavery. But so many people seem to believe it was a U.S. invention. That's grossly wrong. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...ry_and_serfdom -- - Frank Krygowski |
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