Don't hassle me - I'm riding my bike

AMuzi writes:

On 7/8/2020 5:39 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On 7/8/2020 9:45 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
When the current pandemic is over there will be a variety of
estimates
of the death toll as well. That someone died is certain, that he would
have lived absent the pandemic not at all.

I think the best estimate of fatalities will come from comparing total
deaths for the COVID era vs. (say) the five year average of similar
months in previous years.

The UK total death rate showed a substantial increase at the start of
the pandemic, it has been down to normal levels for weeks now. I'm not
sure about US total death rates.

As always, some judgment will be needed, because people's behavioral
changes can have secondary effects. Thank goodness, that will give us
something to debate about.

There has been a lot of collateral damage, for example people missing
chemotherapy or other needed medical treatment. Some of them have died
when they would have lived with treatment. More will die, some possibly
years in the future because they missed vaccinations during the covid
pandemic.


You're right.

On the other side, clinics, surgery centers, hospitals and notably
huge hospital systems are financially stressed for lack of revenue.
Until people start buying new knees and bariatric procedures and such,
the system won't be able to function.

I know that my local hospitals laid off a fairly large fraction of their
staff as a result of the pandemic. I'm fairly sure most are still out
of work.

On Wed, 08 Jul 2020 09:49:39 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

John B. writes:

On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 06:05:11 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

Radey Shouman wrote:
John B. writes:

On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 13:09:37 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, July 3, 2020 at 3:12:13 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/3/2020 3:53 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/3/2020 3:10 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 3, 2020 at 8:47:36 AM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
https://710wor.iheart.com/content/20...rage-incident/


Detroit needs a mayor who will campaign donating Chinese
safety flasher toys
to anyone in sight.

With any luck some jerks will take the lesson to heart.

Like, "Don't go into a Detroit traffic argument armed
with a knife!"

Exactly, the driver should have been pack'n. It should
have been some Quentin Tarantino-esqe shootout.

This definitely proves the superiority of handlebar
baskets. Just keep your Glock in there with your posies
and donettes.

Well, there's a tradeoff between a handlebar basket and a
handlebar bag. With the basket, the gun's easily visible but
it bounces around. Sometimes it slides under the donettes,
slowing your draw time.

The handlebar bag can have a special holster pocket. But
then there are tradeoffs between an inside pocket over an
outside pocket. Inside for concealed carry, but you lose a
second flipping the bag open. Outside for open carry, but
some people get touchy about that.

Being a good-old-boy American bicyclist can be complicated!
That's why most of them drive pickups.


Cyclists's pistols were a very common accessory at one time.
It's not an overly complex problem. Upscale model at 12
shillings:

https://onlinebicyclemuseum.co.uk/wp...ist-pistol.jpg

N.B. Tom in Oakland, tagline: "I fear no tramp."

more, many with folding trigger for pocket carry:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bicycle+pi...ages&ia=images

That said, urban environments present almost infinite
possibilities for trouble and for liability.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

While someone like Frank might hurry his own death along by trying to
walk the streets of Oakland I have people offering help whenever
they believe they can be of some.

Last Wednesday I was talking to a rich man, like most rich a large
part was inherited. His Grandmother had a farm in the bay area not
long after the civil war when food was big business. And also like
most rich he spreads it around as much as possible. He is a surgeon
and works for Doctors without Borders. He works mostly in Africa and
he talked about how much healthier African Children are than
Americans because their immune systems are under constant
challenge. Perhaps this is the reason that I have such good
health. Traipsing through the salt marshes when I was a kid. I
suppose a large part of these marshes were formed as part of the
run-off from the cities which could not have been very healthy.

We discussed the idea that a cloth mask could possibly even slow down
a molecule like a virus and we both got a good laugh out of that (I
suppose that he definitely would not fall under Frank's category of
"medical expert" I have the distinct impression that what Frank
thinks of as an expert is anyone that sits on their ass and reads an
occasional study. Frank appears to be unaware that most studies are
absolute garbage but then I suppose that is what he taught in
college. Poor students. Though they probably learned the art of
engineering by practice and not by his meanderings.

Virtually everything that has been visited upon this country by the
Democrats has been a virtual curse. While walking through those salt
marshes I was accompanied by an American kid of Japanese
extraction. He grew up in Roosevelt's concentration camps. These
were formed in large part so that Roosevelt who was one of the most
racist people that ever lived could allow his friends to seize the
property of the Japanese/Americans who were rather prosperous up to
that time.

Exactly what do you suppose goes through the head of a man who has a
large guaranteed income when he would tell the working man that he
cannot work and cannot provide for his family and must do insane
things like wear a mask in public unless he is robbing a bank?
Social distancing is much like wearing a mask - an infected person
has a cloud of virus molecules surrounding his head and contrary to
the highly educated Dr. Fauci's thoughts, these thing do not fall to
the ground like a brick dropped off a building. They float pretty
much in place in a stream along which you are walking. That means
that someone could pass through that very slowly dispersing cloud
minutes after you have passed and be exposed.

The entire Democrat Party has retained some small remnants of power
though the constant threats and fear. Awful environmental impact
that is barely measurable, man-made climate change that doesn't
exist and now a virus that is virtually harmless.

No doubt you are correct and the figures prove it. The U.S. is leading
the world!

In the larger countries, with a population of 200 million or more, the
U.S. is head and shoulders above the rest with 3,085,705 cases of the
virus, some 3 times the next highest country; 133,808 deaths, double
the numbers of the next closest country;404 deaths per million - y'all
are slipping a bit here, only about 30% higher and 9,321/million
cases, again slipping back to only about 1-1/4 times the next highest
country.

Just think, 50% more deaths due to the Virus than all of the U.S.'s
military deaths in the past 70 years, from the Korean war to the
present.

But not much more, and less per capita, than died in the pandemics of 1957
and 1968.


But note that the pandemics of 1957 and 1968 had one important difference.
They’re over, while the US is still working through their first wave of the
current pandemic. Implying that things aren’t that bad now compared to 1957
or 1968 is akin to publishing the death toll from an airplane crash before
the plane hits the ground.

Too true, in fact from the numbers I see the daily new case rate is
higher then at any time previous. On 7 Jul it seems to have been
55,442 new cases. Nope, I was wrong, the highest number of new cases
seems to have been on 3 Jul with 58,910 new cases.

The death rate, however, continues to decrease. Popular coverage of
the pandemic in the US, like everthing else, is now driven almost
entirely by politics.

Death rate? As in deaths per million population? If so then the death
rate is increasing every day. Or do you mean the percent of those
diagnosed with the disease who die, in which case it is now 9% I
believe.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 08 Jul 2020 13:10:47 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/8/2020 11:16 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/8/2020 2:05 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Radey Shouman wrote:


But not much more, and less per capita, than died in the
pandemics of 1957
and 1968.


But note that the pandemics of 1957 and 1968 had one
important difference.
They’re over, while the US is still working through
their first wave of the
current pandemic. Implying that things aren’t that bad
now compared to 1957
or 1968 is akin to publishing the death toll from an
airplane crash before
the plane hits the ground.

That reminds me of a comment I read about the early
re-openings in several states, like Florida and Georgia:

"The parachute has slowed our rate of fall, so it's OK to
cut it loose."



Translation, "We're lounging around home at full pay, just
like we used to slough off at the State offices, so we
really don't give a damn whether you're working, whether
your children eat, whether your mortgage is paid, or not."


As I have said a number of times it is easy to criticize and difficult
to provide solutions.

So, tell us, what is the solution?

I might say that Thailand which evoked Emergency Regulation early on
and introduced what I'm sure you would consider draconian control
measures hasn't had a home grown case of the virus in more then 40
days while the U.S. is reporting new cases in nearly double the
numbers of previous months.
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. writes:

On Wed, 08 Jul 2020 09:49:39 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

John B. writes:

On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 06:05:11 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

Radey Shouman wrote:
John B. writes:

On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 13:09:37 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, July 3, 2020 at 3:12:13 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/3/2020 3:53 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/3/2020 3:10 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 3, 2020 at 8:47:36 AM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
https://710wor.iheart.com/content/20...rage-incident/


Detroit needs a mayor who will campaign donating Chinese
safety flasher toys
to anyone in sight.

With any luck some jerks will take the lesson to heart.

Like, "Don't go into a Detroit traffic argument armed
with a knife!"

Exactly, the driver should have been pack'n. It should
have been some Quentin Tarantino-esqe shootout.

This definitely proves the superiority of handlebar
baskets. Just keep your Glock in there with your posies
and donettes.

Well, there's a tradeoff between a handlebar basket and a
handlebar bag. With the basket, the gun's easily visible but
it bounces around. Sometimes it slides under the donettes,
slowing your draw time.

The handlebar bag can have a special holster pocket. But
then there are tradeoffs between an inside pocket over an
outside pocket. Inside for concealed carry, but you lose a
second flipping the bag open. Outside for open carry, but
some people get touchy about that.

Being a good-old-boy American bicyclist can be complicated!
That's why most of them drive pickups.


Cyclists's pistols were a very common accessory at one time.
It's not an overly complex problem. Upscale model at 12
shillings:

https://onlinebicyclemuseum.co.uk/wp...ist-pistol.jpg

N.B. Tom in Oakland, tagline: "I fear no tramp."

more, many with folding trigger for pocket carry:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bicycle+pi...ages&ia=images

That said, urban environments present almost infinite
possibilities for trouble and for liability.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

While someone like Frank might hurry his own death along by trying to
walk the streets of Oakland I have people offering help whenever
they believe they can be of some.

Last Wednesday I was talking to a rich man, like most rich a large
part was inherited. His Grandmother had a farm in the bay area not
long after the civil war when food was big business. And also like
most rich he spreads it around as much as possible. He is a surgeon
and works for Doctors without Borders. He works mostly in Africa and
he talked about how much healthier African Children are than
Americans because their immune systems are under constant
challenge. Perhaps this is the reason that I have such good
health. Traipsing through the salt marshes when I was a kid. I
suppose a large part of these marshes were formed as part of the
run-off from the cities which could not have been very healthy.

We discussed the idea that a cloth mask could possibly even slow down
a molecule like a virus and we both got a good laugh out of that (I
suppose that he definitely would not fall under Frank's category of
"medical expert" I have the distinct impression that what Frank
thinks of as an expert is anyone that sits on their ass and reads an
occasional study. Frank appears to be unaware that most studies are
absolute garbage but then I suppose that is what he taught in
college. Poor students. Though they probably learned the art of
engineering by practice and not by his meanderings.

Virtually everything that has been visited upon this country by the
Democrats has been a virtual curse. While walking through those salt
marshes I was accompanied by an American kid of Japanese
extraction. He grew up in Roosevelt's concentration camps. These
were formed in large part so that Roosevelt who was one of the most
racist people that ever lived could allow his friends to seize the
property of the Japanese/Americans who were rather prosperous up to
that time.

Exactly what do you suppose goes through the head of a man who has a
large guaranteed income when he would tell the working man that he
cannot work and cannot provide for his family and must do insane
things like wear a mask in public unless he is robbing a bank?
Social distancing is much like wearing a mask - an infected person
has a cloud of virus molecules surrounding his head and contrary to
the highly educated Dr. Fauci's thoughts, these thing do not fall to
the ground like a brick dropped off a building. They float pretty
much in place in a stream along which you are walking. That means
that someone could pass through that very slowly dispersing cloud
minutes after you have passed and be exposed.

The entire Democrat Party has retained some small remnants of power
though the constant threats and fear. Awful environmental impact
that is barely measurable, man-made climate change that doesn't
exist and now a virus that is virtually harmless.

No doubt you are correct and the figures prove it. The U.S. is leading
the world!

In the larger countries, with a population of 200 million or more, the
U.S. is head and shoulders above the rest with 3,085,705 cases of the
virus, some 3 times the next highest country; 133,808 deaths, double
the numbers of the next closest country;404 deaths per million - y'all
are slipping a bit here, only about 30% higher and 9,321/million
cases, again slipping back to only about 1-1/4 times the next highest
country.

Just think, 50% more deaths due to the Virus than all of the U.S.'s
military deaths in the past 70 years, from the Korean war to the
present.

But not much more, and less per capita, than died in the pandemics of 1957
and 1968.


But note that the pandemics of 1957 and 1968 had one important difference.
They’re over, while the US is still working through their first wave of the
current pandemic. Implying that things aren’t that bad now compared to 1957
or 1968 is akin to publishing the death toll from an airplane crash before
the plane hits the ground.

Too true, in fact from the numbers I see the daily new case rate is
higher then at any time previous. On 7 Jul it seems to have been
55,442 new cases. Nope, I was wrong, the highest number of new cases
seems to have been on 3 Jul with 58,910 new cases.

The death rate, however, continues to decrease. Popular coverage of
the pandemic in the US, like everthing else, is now driven almost
entirely by politics.

Death rate? As in deaths per million population? If so then the death
rate is increasing every day. Or do you mean the percent of those
diagnosed with the disease who die, in which case it is now 9% I
believe.

Deaths per day for a given country/region/whatever. Usually has to be
averaged over a week or so, or improvement happens periodically every
Friday.

On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 19:26:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 7/8/2020 6:46 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Ralph Barone writes:

The ongoing and rising polarization in the US has led to the current state
where everything which should be discussed on a continuum ends up being
reduced to a binary choice and nobody wants to discuss rational compromise
solutions for fear of being branded a “splitter” by their tribe.

It's really worse than that. No one is willing to entertain the thought
that the factual state of the world is in any way different that
whatever their in-group believes it to be.

I understand your point. I'd object only to the "no one." I straddle the
line on many hot button issues, conservative on some, liberal on others.
I know others who are the same - not necessarily matching my attitudes,
but nevertheless holding a mix of views.

Granted, I don't know the percentage who are moderate vs. extreme left
vs. extreme right. I suppose Google knows - or claims to.

One of the things that bother me is what appears to be a total
ignorance of fact in forming an opinion.

In the most recent Hoo-Haa, slavery existed in the U.S. from the first
settlements and the Civil war was not fought to free the slaves and
Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation did not "free the slaves" per se.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On 7/8/2020 7:48 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jul 2020 13:10:47 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/8/2020 11:16 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/8/2020 2:05 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Radey Shouman wrote:


But not much more, and less per capita, than died in the
pandemics of 1957
and 1968.


But note that the pandemics of 1957 and 1968 had one
important difference.
They’re over, while the US is still working through
their first wave of the
current pandemic. Implying that things aren’t that bad
now compared to 1957
or 1968 is akin to publishing the death toll from an
airplane crash before
the plane hits the ground.

That reminds me of a comment I read about the early
re-openings in several states, like Florida and Georgia:

"The parachute has slowed our rate of fall, so it's OK to
cut it loose."



Translation, "We're lounging around home at full pay, just
like we used to slough off at the State offices, so we
really don't give a damn whether you're working, whether
your children eat, whether your mortgage is paid, or not."


As I have said a number of times it is easy to criticize and difficult
to provide solutions.

So, tell us, what is the solution?

I might say that Thailand which evoked Emergency Regulation early on
and introduced what I'm sure you would consider draconian control
measures hasn't had a home grown case of the virus in more then 40
days while the U.S. is reporting new cases in nearly double the
numbers of previous months.
--
Cheers,

John B.


Variations abound.
Japan didn't order businesses closed.

New York shipped contagious patients into old age homes,
rehab centers and assisted living facilities, neatly
dispatching some 5,000 vulnerable elderly.

With less volume but more pathos, PA scrunched two wards of
elderly and feeble US Veterans into one ward, rotated staff
through and killed 76 of them. 'Thanks for your service' as
they flippantly say. Bonus points in PA; the Public Health
Director moved her own mother to private care the day before
ordering contagious patients moved into old age homes.
Special. Just special. Makes the citizens want to round up
their tax payments next year, eh?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wed, 08 Jul 2020 20:47:04 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/8/2020 7:48 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jul 2020 13:10:47 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/8/2020 11:16 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/8/2020 2:05 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Radey Shouman wrote:


But not much more, and less per capita, than died in the
pandemics of 1957
and 1968.


But note that the pandemics of 1957 and 1968 had one
important difference.
They’re over, while the US is still working through
their first wave of the
current pandemic. Implying that things aren’t that bad
now compared to 1957
or 1968 is akin to publishing the death toll from an
airplane crash before
the plane hits the ground.

That reminds me of a comment I read about the early
re-openings in several states, like Florida and Georgia:

"The parachute has slowed our rate of fall, so it's OK to
cut it loose."



Translation, "We're lounging around home at full pay, just
like we used to slough off at the State offices, so we
really don't give a damn whether you're working, whether
your children eat, whether your mortgage is paid, or not."


As I have said a number of times it is easy to criticize and difficult
to provide solutions.

So, tell us, what is the solution?

I might say that Thailand which evoked Emergency Regulation early on
and introduced what I'm sure you would consider draconian control
measures hasn't had a home grown case of the virus in more then 40
days while the U.S. is reporting new cases in nearly double the
numbers of previous months.
--
Cheers,

John B.


Variations abound.
Japan didn't order businesses closed.


No, you are correct. What they did was ask business's to close and in
some cases paid some form of compensation to those that did close.

New York shipped contagious patients into old age homes,
rehab centers and assisted living facilities, neatly
dispatching some 5,000 vulnerable elderly.

With less volume but more pathos, PA scrunched two wards of
elderly and feeble US Veterans into one ward, rotated staff
through and killed 76 of them. 'Thanks for your service' as
they flippantly say. Bonus points in PA; the Public Health
Director moved her own mother to private care the day before
ordering contagious patients moved into old age homes.
Special. Just special. Makes the citizens want to round up
their tax payments next year, eh?


:-) I can't help from smiling about the "old Age Home" as one of the
thinks that most Asians find so reprehensible about the U.S. is the
shipping of old relatives off to "old Age Homes". In Thailand they
have a great deal of difficulty that anyone could be so crass and
inhumane as to do such a thing.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On 7/8/2020 8:23 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
AMuzi writes:

On 7/8/2020 5:39 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On 7/8/2020 9:45 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
When the current pandemic is over there will be a variety of
estimates
of the death toll as well. That someone died is certain, that he would
have lived absent the pandemic not at all.

I think the best estimate of fatalities will come from comparing total
deaths for the COVID era vs. (say) the five year average of similar
months in previous years.

The UK total death rate showed a substantial increase at the start of
the pandemic, it has been down to normal levels for weeks now. I'm not
sure about US total death rates.

As always, some judgment will be needed, because people's behavioral
changes can have secondary effects. Thank goodness, that will give us
something to debate about.

There has been a lot of collateral damage, for example people missing
chemotherapy or other needed medical treatment. Some of them have died
when they would have lived with treatment. More will die, some possibly
years in the future because they missed vaccinations during the covid
pandemic.


You're right.

On the other side, clinics, surgery centers, hospitals and notably
huge hospital systems are financially stressed for lack of revenue.
Until people start buying new knees and bariatric procedures and such,
the system won't be able to function.

I know that my local hospitals laid off a fairly large fraction of their
staff as a result of the pandemic. I'm fairly sure most are still out
of work.

Well, that's the free market at work.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 7/8/2020 9:47 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/8/2020 7:48 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jul 2020 13:10:47 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/8/2020 11:16 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/8/2020 2:05 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Radey Shouman wrote:


But not much more, and less per capita, than died in the
pandemics of 1957
and 1968.


But note that the pandemics of 1957 and 1968 had one
important difference.
They’re over, while the US is still working through
their first wave of the
current pandemic. Implying that things aren’t that bad
now compared to 1957
or 1968 is akin to publishing the death toll from an
airplane crash before
the plane hits the ground.

That reminds me of a comment I read about the early
re-openings in several states, like Florida and Georgia:

"The parachute has slowed our rate of fall, so it's OK to
cut it loose."



Translation, "We're lounging around home at full pay, just
like we used to slough off at the State offices, so we
really don't give a damn whether you're working, whether
your children eat, whether your mortgage is paid, or not."


As I have said a number of times it is easy to criticize and difficult
to provide solutions.

So, tell us, what is the solution?

I might say that Thailand which evoked Emergency Regulation early on
and introduced what I'm sure you would consider draconian control
measures hasn't had a home grown case of the virus in more then 40
days while the U.S. is reporting new cases in nearly double the
numbers of previous months.
--
Cheers,

John B.


Variations abound.
Japan didn't order businesses closed.

Sweden didn't either, and now has infection & death stats way worse than
its neighbors, and an economy that's barely better than theirs.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 7/8/2020 9:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 19:26:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 7/8/2020 6:46 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Ralph Barone writes:

The ongoing and rising polarization in the US has led to the current state
where everything which should be discussed on a continuum ends up being
reduced to a binary choice and nobody wants to discuss rational compromise
solutions for fear of being branded a “splitter� by their tribe.

It's really worse than that. No one is willing to entertain the thought
that the factual state of the world is in any way different that
whatever their in-group believes it to be.

I understand your point. I'd object only to the "no one." I straddle the
line on many hot button issues, conservative on some, liberal on others.
I know others who are the same - not necessarily matching my attitudes,
but nevertheless holding a mix of views.

Granted, I don't know the percentage who are moderate vs. extreme left
vs. extreme right. I suppose Google knows - or claims to.

One of the things that bother me is what appears to be a total
ignorance of fact in forming an opinion.

In the most recent Hoo-Haa, slavery existed in the U.S. from the first
settlements and the Civil war was not fought to free the slaves and
Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation did not "free the slaves" per se.

Slavery existed from the first in the American colonies largely because
it existed in nations around the world from time immemorial.

I'm not in favor of slavery. But so many people seem to believe it was a
U.S. invention. That's grossly wrong.

See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...ry_and_serfdom


--
- Frank Krygowski