|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Favorite Europe Vintage Sources ?
- Bob - writes:
I'm interested in sources for some vintage parts... mostly European, non Italian. In Europe : www.renaissance-cycles.com - mostly campagnolo, some french & spanish parts www.xxcycle.com - home of ZEFAL, still making some pumps, & stronglight & TA www.spacycles.com - sachs / maillard freewheels, NOS, good prices on brooks. In the USA : www.harriscyclery.com - good support for french cranksets www.bicycleclassics.com - some french stuff (Atom 700 pedals, simplex) www.yellowjersey.org - custom suntour freewheels, maillard / normandy. ebay - random NOS suntour freewheels your local bike shop - still has NOS suntour freewheels, mine did last year. As far as freewheels go, i prefer suntour ultra 6 and ultra 7 freewheels. Suntour freewheels are extremely durable, one body does IT ALL, 5, 6, 6U, and 7U, and they are plentiful in black, silver, gold, and are quite affordable ($20 - $30 NOS.) The only freewheel that might be better than Suntour is Sachs / Maillard, and mainly its because cog spacing matches present-day 8-speed and so indexed derailleurs can work with them. Not worth the $50/freewheel, imho. - Don Gillies San Diego, CA |
Ads |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
- Bob - wrote:
Don: You brought up a _very_ interesting point here. I have a Suntour 6sp Winner Ultra 13-15-17-19-21-24 where the 13 cog screws directly onto the body. I also have Winner Pro 6sp 13-14-15-17-19-21 on which the 13 cog is clearly screwed to the 14 cog. From what you are saying, I can simply pull the 13/14 combo cog off the 13-21 and screw them on the 13-24 in place of the 13 cog... and I have a seven speed Ultra! Have I missed something here? Are there differences in the Winner vs. the Winner Pro sprockets that I've missed ? Are there any spacing issues (not frame/axle but cog to cog) that I don't know about ? No, it won't work, because yes, there are spacing issues. The 13/14 6sp cogs have a different built-in spacers than ultra cogs. I think the 13/14 combo may screw on with the 14 cog hard against your 15 cog, i.e. with no intervening space. You need an ultra 13/14 (or 12/13 or 12/14) combination. These are still available from Muzi's sto http://www.yellowjersey.org/stfw.html Details (or see the great scanned diagrams on Muzi's site above): Both the "regular"-spaced 6 and the "Ultra"-7 had the two smallest cogs screwed together and the larger one screwed to the freewheel body. For a "regular"-6, the two top cogs were labelled "E" and "X". For an ultra-7, the two top cogs were "U" and "L". The remaining cogs on both types were of types "T", "R", and "A", in that order, yielding the useful mnemonics "E-X-T-R-A" and "U-L-T-R-A" for cog types of the two spacings, respectively. (Actually E-X-T-R-A-A and U-L-T-R-R-A-A, if I recall). Good luck, Mark Janeba |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
- Bob - wrote:
I'm interested in sources for some vintage parts... mostly European, non Italian. Right now I'm looking for a cluster and a vintage Zefal pump. I might be persuaded to use a Suntour cluster if I can't find what I want in Sachs or similar. The stuff doesn't have to be new, but obviously serviceable. Ebay is OK... but I'd prefer to find some sources where I can just buy what I need when I need it. Hope this is isn't patronising, but if you're looking at ebay.com, also look at ebay.co.uk - there's usually a fair selection of "new old stock" (NOS) stuff for good prices. -- jc Remove the -not from email |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
I'm interested in sources for some vintage parts... mostly European,
non Italian. Right now I'm looking for a cluster and a vintage Zefal pump. Well, Bicycle Classics springs to mind or American Cyclery in San Francisco but there are many others. Phil Brown |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
"- Bob -" wrote:
I have a Suntour 6sp Winner Ultra 13-15-17-19-21-24 where the 13 cog screws directly onto the body. I also have Winner Pro 6sp 13-14-15-17-19-21 on which the 13 cog is clearly screwed to the 14 cog. From what you are saying, I can simply pull the 13/14 combo cog off the 13-21 and screw them on the 13-24 in place of the 13 cog... and I have a seven speed Ultra! Have I missed something here? Are there differences in the Winner vs. the Winner Pro sprockets that I've missed ? Are there any spacing issues (not frame/axle but cog to cog) that I don't know about ? Mark Janeba replied: No, it won't work, because yes, there are spacing issues. The 13/14 6sp cogs have a different built-in spacers than ultra cogs. I think the 13/14 combo may screw on with the 14 cog hard against your 15 cog, i.e. with no intervening space. Nope, any threaded sprocket in that position will need to have a built-in spacer. I'd bet that with a little ingenuity it will work fine. The spacing won't be exact, but should be close enough. This stuff isn't nearly as critical as many folks suppose. Since he already owns the parts, might as well give it a try. Sheldon "10-Speed Ergo, 6-Speed SunTour/Regina" Brown +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ | This message has been sent to you using recycled electrons | | exclusively. Please do not discard them after use, | | send them along and help conserve these irreplaceable | | sub-atomic resources for future generations. | +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Sheldon Brown wrote:
Mark Janeba replied: No, it won't work, because yes, there are spacing issues. The 13/14 6sp cogs have a different built-in spacers than ultra cogs. I think the 13/14 combo may screw on with the 14 cog hard against your 15 cog, i.e. with no intervening space. Nope, any threaded sprocket in that position will need to have a built-in spacer. Agree on the built-in spacer, but on the sample I checked in the shop, the integrated spacer on a 13T "E" cog slipped *under* the next larger cog. There is a diameter incompatibility on the integrated spacers. Specifically, the OD on the "E" cog's integrated spacer is 4.2 cm, the OD on the "proper" "L" cog for this situation is 4.4 cm, and the ID of the "T" cog they need to fit against is about 4.3 cm. Never would have suspected this, until I tried it last night in the shop. (Those SunTour guys were so clever!) Granted, he has an "X" cog, not an "E" in this position (can't find my lone "X" to check) but as I recall, the "in"side of the "X" cog is the same as that of the "E". OK, to say this more clearly, let's call the three diameters on a winner body "stages". The largest is always splined, for "A" cogs. The next "stage 2" is threaded (or threaded AND splined on winner pro bodies), then the final stage (#3) is a smaller-diameter thread with room for only one cog or an assembly of two cogs threaded to each other. As I see it [physically, freewheel-in-my-hand, that is], the "regular" spacing 4th cog (counting #1 as largest cog) was designed to screw on leaving a few threads on stage 2 exposed, and the 5th cog, threading onto stage 3, is supposed to stop against the body where the diameter increases. On the other hand, the ultra 5th cog doesn't leave any threads exposed - it "hangs out" just a tad past the end of stage 2 - and ultra cogs for stage 3 have a larger diameter (4.4 cm) integrated spacer to stop against the last stage-2 cog. So when I tried the 13T "E" cog on an otherwise ultra-cogged freewheel, the 13T cog's integrated spacer w/ 4.2 cm diameter slides under the "over-hanging" stage 2 cog with 4.3 cm inner diameter, and the two cogs came hard up against each other. Mark "trying it was a good idea" Janeba |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
- Bob - wrote in message ... On 20 Aug 2004 16:03:20 -0700, (Donald Gillies) wrote: As far as freewheels go, i prefer suntour ultra 6 and ultra 7 freewheels. Suntour freewheels are extremely durable, one body does IT ALL, 5, 6, 6U, and 7U, and they are plentiful in black, silver, gold, and are quite affordable ($20 - $30 NOS.) Don: You brought up a _very_ interesting point here. I have a Suntour 6sp Winner Ultra 13-15-17-19-21-24 where the 13 cog screws directly onto the body. I also have Winner Pro 6sp 13-14-15-17-19-21 on which the 13 cog is clearly screwed to the 14 cog. From what you are saying, I can simply pull the 13/14 combo cog off the 13-21 and screw them on the 13-24 in place of the 13 cog... and I have a seven speed Ultra! Have I missed something here? Are there differences in the Winner vs. the Winner Pro sprockets that I've missed ? Are there any spacing issues (not frame/axle but cog to cog) that I don't know about ? Make sure you use a chain whip, the new winner sprockets may snap a tooth if you try and bodge the job. Trevor |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
- Bob - wrote:
Mark/Muzi: I'm starting to get this... a check with the homemade-small-internal-gap-micrometer (drill bit) shows me that the gaps on the non-Ultra appear to be relatively uniform and wider, whereas the ultra has narrower gaps on all but the one smallest cog gap (13-15) where is seems to be roughly the same as a non-Ultra cog. What I can't figure out without pulling the clusters apart is how much of the gap is due to the spacers I can re-arrange and how much is due to the built in spacers on the cogs that . So, questions: - With what I have on hand, do I need to order a 13 and a 14 Ultra or just one or the other ? Do I need any new spacers ? A 14 "L" cog and a 13 "U" cog. Your 13T cog (which would be an "E") has the wrong inner diameter to fit the 14L. No spacers required, they are all built into these cogs. - Are there differences in the Winner vs. Winner Pro bodies? A plain "Winner" are really old and not likely what you have; a "New Winner", the ones that were produced for many years, had adjustable bearings (a gimmick, IMHO). The Winner Pro has the middle "stage" on the body both threaded and splined; splined cogs were sold with the winner pro, but it was backward-compatible with older threaded winner cogs (and pro-compe and perfect cogs, too - SunTour was great for inter-compatibility). I think I read that the intermediate sprockets are different but the 6/7 small cogs are the same? ... so my plan to put the 13/14 on the Ultra should work out as long as I don't start switching other cogs ? Actually, most of the cogs besides the smallest ones are the same, the *spacers* are different. The top few cogs (smallest ones) differ due to integrated spacers and some diameter differences. See my other post for why the 13/14 from a regular-6 won't work to make an ultra-7. I had a look to see if there was an easy way to throw in a not-designed-for spacer, but it didn't look feasible to me. Regards, Mark Janeba |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
- Bob - wrote in message ... On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 22:31:10 +0100, "Trevor Jeffrey" wrote: Make sure you use a chain whip, the new winner sprockets may snap a tooth if you try and bodge the job. Trevor I definitely will... although I won't tell you how I make up my own "whip", I might frighten some of the folks here. While we're on the subject of width and freewheels, ... is an 8 speed freewheel basically an "ultra" spacing arrangement but now one sprocket/spacer wider than a 7-speed? I've seen some Sachs 8 speeds for sale - are they based on a 130mm design ? I think this is correct, never examined an 8 speed because I thought it would be too wide for numerous reasons, and unnecessary. Suntour AP seven speed is 30mm right face to right face width. I usually term them as compact. Trevor |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Tandem Tour of Europe... help! | Brad Zarikoff | Marketplace | 5 | November 22nd 11 11:12 AM |
favorite cross racer | erik saunders | Racing | 48 | November 15th 04 03:44 PM |
Rec.Bicycles Frequently Asked Questions Posting Part 1/5 | Mike Iglesias | General | 4 | October 29th 04 07:11 AM |