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Bicyycle fairing
Re the current crop of power calculations, I've always wondered why fairing's were never a popular item for bicycles. With today's composite materials weight could be minimal and even the crudest drag calculations show that wind resistance is the most critical factor in bicycle speed. See: https://www.racebikemart.com/adverts...1540463758.php or action pictures at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpBRkphIwTo Granted that fairing's would not be legal equipment for racing but the majority of bike sales are not for racing. cheers, John B. |
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#2
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Bicyycle fairing
On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 6:36:19 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
Re the current crop of power calculations, I've always wondered why fairing's were never a popular item for bicycles. With today's composite materials weight could be minimal and even the crudest drag calculations show that wind resistance is the most critical factor in bicycle speed. See: https://www.racebikemart.com/adverts...1540463758.php or action pictures at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpBRkphIwTo Granted that fairing's would not be legal equipment for racing but the majority of bike sales are not for racing. https://www.zzipper.com/ I had one for quite a few years. It just wasn't worth the trouble for me. - Frank Krygowski |
#3
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Bicyycle fairing
On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 20:14:19 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote: On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 6:36:19 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote: Re the current crop of power calculations, I've always wondered why fairing's were never a popular item for bicycles. With today's composite materials weight could be minimal and even the crudest drag calculations show that wind resistance is the most critical factor in bicycle speed. See: https://www.racebikemart.com/adverts...1540463758.php or action pictures at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpBRkphIwTo Granted that fairing's would not be legal equipment for racing but the majority of bike sales are not for racing. https://www.zzipper.com/ I had one for quite a few years. It just wasn't worth the trouble for me. - Frank Krygowski I remember reading, some time ago, about a bloke in England that commuted a fairly long distance to work each day. It turned out that he "rode" a completely enclosed and streamlined recumbent bike and, the article said, he was averaging 30 mph. cheers, John B. |
#4
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Bicyycle fairing
On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 6:55:07 AM UTC+1, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 20:14:19 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski wrote: On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 6:36:19 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote: Re the current crop of power calculations, I've always wondered why fairing's were never a popular item for bicycles. With today's composite materials weight could be minimal and even the crudest drag calculations show that wind resistance is the most critical factor in bicycle speed. See: https://www.racebikemart.com/adverts...1540463758.php or action pictures at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpBRkphIwTo Granted that fairing's would not be legal equipment for racing but the majority of bike sales are not for racing. https://www.zzipper.com/ I had one for quite a few years. It just wasn't worth the trouble for me. - Frank Krygowski I remember reading, some time ago, about a bloke in England that commuted a fairly long distance to work each day. It turned out that he "rode" a completely enclosed and streamlined recumbent bike and, the article said, he was averaging 30 mph. cheers, John B. I have a colleague who does that but he also says that it is quite impractical in traffic and warm in the summer. Lou |
#6
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Bicyycle fairing
On 12/22/2018 11:55 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 20:14:19 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski wrote: On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 6:36:19 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote: Re the current crop of power calculations, I've always wondered why fairing's were never a popular item for bicycles. With today's composite materials weight could be minimal and even the crudest drag calculations show that wind resistance is the most critical factor in bicycle speed. See: https://www.racebikemart.com/adverts...1540463758.php or action pictures at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpBRkphIwTo Granted that fairing's would not be legal equipment for racing but the majority of bike sales are not for racing. https://www.zzipper.com/ I had one for quite a few years. It just wasn't worth the trouble for me. - Frank Krygowski I remember reading, some time ago, about a bloke in England that commuted a fairly long distance to work each day. It turned out that he "rode" a completely enclosed and streamlined recumbent bike and, the article said, he was averaging 30 mph. cheers, John B. Some years back (I guess in the 1980's) there was still a couple IHPVA teams competing with fully-faired upright bicycles. I recall the old photos but don't know the names. Despite a several-years-long attempt, they generally were not competitive. This would be back around the Versatron Vector days. This link shows an older example, but one that has the same general shape: http://www.ihpva.org/HParchive/PDF/38-v11n3-1994.pdf (the image on page 7 of the pdf) --except the modern ones were ribbed like an airplane rudder and covered with clear plastic to improve rider visibility. Often the only two modifications to the underlying bicycles was chopped and narrowed drop bars and a BIG chainring (80T or so). -Of course--unlike most other sanctioned competitions--the IHPVA does not tell you what kind of bicycle you can bring. ---- The general opinion even among velomobile riders is that using any fully-faired, two-wheel bicycle on the street is still a very daring feat. The Battle Mountain bikes are totally impractical due to very poor outward visibility (if they have a windshield at all, that is) and they require assistance getting in and out, and starting and stopping. Velomobiles (trikes) are common but so far I have heard of only one company/person building fully-faired, 2-wheel recumbents that were intended for street use. Speedbikes.ch used to offer the Peregrin-on-Birk model for around $35K (USD) but they don't list it now. https://www.google.com/search?q=peregrin+on+birk Also in just the last few years there was a guy on recumbents.com who was toying around for some time with a faired upright bicycle: http://www.recumbents.com/forums/top...?TOPIC_ID=3029 |
#7
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Bicyycle fairing
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 16:15:26 -0600, Doug Cimperman
wrote: On 12/22/2018 11:55 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 20:14:19 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski wrote: On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 6:36:19 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote: Re the current crop of power calculations, I've always wondered why fairing's were never a popular item for bicycles. With today's composite materials weight could be minimal and even the crudest drag calculations show that wind resistance is the most critical factor in bicycle speed. See: https://www.racebikemart.com/adverts...1540463758.php or action pictures at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpBRkphIwTo Granted that fairing's would not be legal equipment for racing but the majority of bike sales are not for racing. https://www.zzipper.com/ I had one for quite a few years. It just wasn't worth the trouble for me. - Frank Krygowski I remember reading, some time ago, about a bloke in England that commuted a fairly long distance to work each day. It turned out that he "rode" a completely enclosed and streamlined recumbent bike and, the article said, he was averaging 30 mph. cheers, John B. Some years back (I guess in the 1980's) there was still a couple IHPVA teams competing with fully-faired upright bicycles. I recall the old photos but don't know the names. Despite a several-years-long attempt, they generally were not competitive. This would be back around the Versatron Vector days. This link shows an older example, but one that has the same general shape: http://www.ihpva.org/HParchive/PDF/38-v11n3-1994.pdf (the image on page 7 of the pdf) --except the modern ones were ribbed like an airplane rudder and covered with clear plastic to improve rider visibility. Often the only two modifications to the underlying bicycles was chopped and narrowed drop bars and a BIG chainring (80T or so). -Of course--unlike most other sanctioned competitions--the IHPVA does not tell you what kind of bicycle you can bring. ---- The general opinion even among velomobile riders is that using any fully-faired, two-wheel bicycle on the street is still a very daring feat. The Battle Mountain bikes are totally impractical due to very poor outward visibility (if they have a windshield at all, that is) and they require assistance getting in and out, and starting and stopping. Velomobiles (trikes) are common but so far I have heard of only one company/person building fully-faired, 2-wheel recumbents that were intended for street use. Speedbikes.ch used to offer the Peregrin-on-Birk model for around $35K (USD) but they don't list it now. https://www.google.com/search?q=peregrin+on+birk Also in just the last few years there was a guy on recumbents.com who was toying around for some time with a faired upright bicycle: http://www.recumbents.com/forums/top...?TOPIC_ID=3029 What I was thinking about when I made the original post was a fairing somewhat similar to the Yamaha TD-1 that I posted the reference to. cheers, John B. |
#8
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Bicyycle fairing
On 12/24/2018 6:13 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
... The problem is far from simple. See the following for a rather complete discussion of the problem as it applies to "those other two wheel guys". http://canadamotoguide.com/2016/05/0...-aerodynamics/ Or for us guys: https://www.researchgate.net/publica...g_aerodynamics cheers, John B. Some recumbent people do frequently use body socks for on-road riding. A body sock is a hard front fairing, with a stretchy fabric mid/rear section. It affords some flexing in cross-winds while maintaining most of the aerodynamic advantage of a full fairing at low to moderate speeds. Also we note: The racing motorcycles shown all had fixed fins. Nowadays you could probably build a dustbin fairing for a motorcycle, but with some air pressure sensors and fins on the front controlled by an Arduino, to create vortices to help disrupt crosswind effects. Another possible option would be to build a motorcycle with digital steering--drive-by-wire. Similar to ABS, even a cheap microprocessor could make control corrections dozens of times a second,,, way faster than any human can. (or use both these systems) |
#9
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Bicyycle fairing
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 23:08:52 -0600, Doug Cimperman
wrote: On 12/24/2018 6:13 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: ... The problem is far from simple. See the following for a rather complete discussion of the problem as it applies to "those other two wheel guys". http://canadamotoguide.com/2016/05/0...-aerodynamics/ Or for us guys: https://www.researchgate.net/publica...g_aerodynamics cheers, John B. Some recumbent people do frequently use body socks for on-road riding. A body sock is a hard front fairing, with a stretchy fabric mid/rear section. It affords some flexing in cross-winds while maintaining most of the aerodynamic advantage of a full fairing at low to moderate speeds. Also we note: The racing motorcycles shown all had fixed fins. Nowadays you could probably build a dustbin fairing for a motorcycle, but with some air pressure sensors and fins on the front controlled by an Arduino, to create vortices to help disrupt crosswind effects. I saw mention of at least one motorcycle fairing that had holes in it to control, or moderate, crosswind problems, but having said that bicycles with disk wheels must be susceptible to crosswind instability but people seem to ride them anyway. Another possible option would be to build a motorcycle with digital steering--drive-by-wire. Similar to ABS, even a cheap microprocessor could make control corrections dozens of times a second,,, way faster than any human can. (or use both these systems) Racing motorcycles seem to get along without auto-steering. At least at current speeds. cheers, John B. |
#10
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Bicyycle fairing
On 12/24/2018 11:23 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 23:08:52 -0600, Doug Cimperman wrote: ... Another possible option would be to build a motorcycle with digital steering--drive-by-wire. Similar to ABS, even a cheap microprocessor could make control corrections dozens of times a second,,, way faster than any human can. (or use both these systems) Racing motorcycles seem to get along without auto-steering. At least at current speeds. cheers, John B. Except when they don't. https://www.google.com/search?client...+tank+slapping |
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