Removing a stuck adjustable cup (Bottom Bracket)

There's no way a pin-wrench is going to be able to budge the supposedly
non-fixed cup (ie left side) on my all-weather commuter bike. I'm
fairly sure the fixed-cup is also immobile, and this is the time of
year I usually replace the bearings (it's an old cup-and-cone style
bb.)

What are my options? I'm thinking I could possible file some flats on
it and apply the big wrench, then replace it, but I seem to recall
these are really hard steel. The pin-wrench holes don't seem to be
deep enough to allow me to stick a punch in one and whale on it with a
mallet. Would a torch help? (It's steel-on-steel, so I'm guessing not.)
Some super-duper penetrating oil?

This is probably this frame's last year (I've said that before), but I
would like to make it last until June at least.

Brian,

Filing some flats is not a bad idea, you may want to put the flats into
a vise and use the frame as a lever. The problem with most pin spanners
is that they are not very long and you can't get enough leverage to
move a stuck cup. As a matter of fact, if you know you can get a
replacement cup and there's enough sticking out for the vise to grab
hold of, dont even bother filing flats, just clamp the vise down onto
it and turn the frame. Using some good penetrating oil is highly
recommended as you have nothing to lose by trying this. Wish I could be
more help, good luck.

Perry

Hello Brian

Sounds like the cup is history, anyway. Why not use a lg. Vise Grip w/
a rounded jaw, or a channel lock w/ good sharp teeth. You could also
try a hammer & center punch to drive it ccw. If you ruin it, no big
deal. Even Campy cups aren't very expensive. I always coat threads that
have the potential to be difficult to loosen w/ anti seize.

Good luck, John

Brian Huntley wrote:
There's no way a pin-wrench is going to be able to budge the supposedly
non-fixed cup (ie left side) on my all-weather commuter bike. I'm
fairly sure the fixed-cup is also immobile, and this is the time of
year I usually replace the bearings (it's an old cup-and-cone style
bb.)

What are my options? I'm thinking I could possible file some flats on
it and apply the big wrench, then replace it, but I seem to recall
these are really hard steel. The pin-wrench holes don't seem to be
deep enough to allow me to stick a punch in one and whale on it with a
mallet. Would a torch help? (It's steel-on-steel, so I'm guessing not.)
Some super-duper penetrating oil?

I'd try the penetrating oil and a 1/8" pin punch after the oil had had
some time to work. Unless it's severely corroded, you shouldn't have
any trouble at all with the *adjustable* cup. Fixed cups, on the other
hand...

Mark

Brian Huntley wrote:

What are my options? I'm thinking I could possible file some flats on
it and apply the big wrench, then replace it, but I seem to recall
these are really hard steel. The pin-wrench holes don't seem to be
deep enough to allow me to stick a punch in one and whale on it with a
mallet. Would a torch help? (It's steel-on-steel, so I'm guessing not.)
Some super-duper penetrating oil?

The fixed cup has flats, right? Try clamping those in a vise
and rotating the frame to get the fixed cup out. Then use
Sheldon's method with a bolt, nut and washers to get the
adjustable cup out. It's on his webpage: basically the
idea is to put a bolt+washer through the cup from the inside,
clamp a nut+washer from the outside, then turn either the
nut or bolt so that it simultaneously tightens the sandwich
and tries to turn the cup in the direction you want.

In article
.com,
"CobraRGuy" wrote:

Brian,

Filing some flats is not a bad idea, you may want to put the flats into
a vise and use the frame as a lever. The problem with most pin spanners
is that they are not very long and you can't get enough leverage to
move a stuck cup. As a matter of fact, if you know you can get a
replacement cup and there's enough sticking out for the vise to grab
hold of, dont even bother filing flats, just clamp the vise down onto
it and turn the frame. Using some good penetrating oil is highly
recommended as you have nothing to lose by trying this. Wish I could be
more help, good luck.

Apply the penetrating lubricant the day before you do the
extraction; it can make the important difference.

--
Michael Press

On 7 Jan 2006 00:36:43 -0800, "
wrote:

Brian Huntley wrote:

What are my options? I'm thinking I could possible file some flats on
it and apply the big wrench, then replace it, but I seem to recall
these are really hard steel. The pin-wrench holes don't seem to be
deep enough to allow me to stick a punch in one and whale on it with a
mallet. Would a torch help? (It's steel-on-steel, so I'm guessing not.)
Some super-duper penetrating oil?

The fixed cup has flats, right? Try clamping those in a vise
and rotating the frame to get the fixed cup out. Then use
Sheldon's method with a bolt, nut and washers to get the
adjustable cup out. It's on his webpage: basically the
idea is to put a bolt+washer through the cup from the inside,
clamp a nut+washer from the outside, then turn either the
nut or bolt so that it simultaneously tightens the sandwich
and tries to turn the cup in the direction you want.

Here's an alternative method for removing the fixed cup. Assuming you
have a fixed cup wrench, the object is securing the wrench so that it
can't slip off the cup when torque is applied. I do this with a large
washer, a length of pipe, and a crank bolt and washer. A 1 7/8" OD
washer is just large enough to secure my Sugino fixed cup wrench. The
washer you buy at your local hardware store might have to have the ID
ground out to slip over the spindle. I then slip on a 1" length of
7/8" OD pipe (a piece I trimmed off the end of a steel MTB handlebar
years ago) followed by the crank bolt and washer. Tighten down this
sandwich to secure the wrench in place.

You can then wail away on the wrench with a rubber mallet secure in
the knowledge it won't slip. Remember that the fixed cup is (most
likely) left-hand threaded.

With the fixed cup removed you can then pull out the spindle and
bearings, allowing you to use the "Sheldon Method". See:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html

Of course all this assumes you have a cup-and-cone BB. If you're
dealing with a cartridge BB things get different, but thinking about
it my method would also work for removing a cartridge body.


jeverett3ATearthlinkDOTnet http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

Brian Huntley wrote:
There's no way a pin-wrench is going to be able to budge the supposedly
non-fixed cup (ie left side) on my all-weather commuter bike. I'm
fairly sure the fixed-cup is also immobile, and this is the time of
year I usually replace the bearings (it's an old cup-and-cone style
bb.)

What are my options? I'm thinking I could possible file some flats on
it and apply the big wrench, then replace it, but I seem to recall
these are really hard steel. The pin-wrench holes don't seem to be
deep enough to allow me to stick a punch in one and whale on it with a
mallet. Would a torch help? (It's steel-on-steel, so I'm guessing not.)
Some super-duper penetrating oil?

This is probably this frame's last year (I've said that before), but I
would like to make it last until June at least.


Usually adjustable cups aren't too hard to remove after you get the
lockring off. I've had good luck with the "punch and mallet" method. If
you need penetrating oil, try "PB Blaster" -- handy stuff to keep around.

John Everett wrote:

Here's an alternative method for removing the fixed cup. Assuming you
have a fixed cup wrench, the object is securing the wrench so that it
can't slip off the cup when torque is applied. I do this with a large
washer, a length of pipe, and a crank bolt and washer. A 1 7/8" OD
washer is just large enough to secure my Sugino fixed cup wrench. The
washer you buy at your local hardware store might have to have the ID
ground out to slip over the spindle. I then slip on a 1" length of
7/8" OD pipe (a piece I trimmed off the end of a steel MTB handlebar
years ago) followed by the crank bolt and washer. Tighten down this
sandwich to secure the wrench in place.

You can then wail away on the wrench with a rubber mallet secure in
the knowledge it won't slip. Remember that the fixed cup is (most
likely) left-hand threaded.

That's a good point. I try to do that when using a fixed cup
wrench, as I don't have a bench vise to clamp the cup in.
I use a 2" fender washer, and between the wrench and the
fender washer, a roll of electrical tape - serves the same
purpose as your 1" length of handlebar. Obviously the
core of the tape roll has to be 2" in diameter.

John Everett wrote:

Here's an alternative method for removing the fixed cup. Assuming you
have a fixed cup wrench, the object is securing the wrench so that it
can't slip off the cup when torque is applied. I do this with a large
washer, a length of pipe, and a crank bolt and washer. A 1 7/8" OD
washer is just large enough to secure my Sugino fixed cup wrench. The
washer you buy at your local hardware store might have to have the ID
ground out to slip over the spindle. I then slip on a 1" length of
7/8" OD pipe (a piece I trimmed off the end of a steel MTB handlebar
years ago) followed by the crank bolt and washer. Tighten down this
sandwich to secure the wrench in place.

You can then wail away on the wrench with a rubber mallet secure in
the knowledge it won't slip. Remember that the fixed cup is (most
likely) left-hand threaded.

That's a good point. I try to do that when using a fixed cup
wrench, as I don't have a bench vise to clamp the cup in.
I use a 2" fender washer, and between the wrench and the
fender washer, a roll of electrical tape - serves the same
purpose as your 1" length of handlebar. Obviously the
core of the tape roll has to be 2" in diameter.