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  #21  
Old December 11th 13, 01:52 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_4_]
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Default London "Danger! Danger!"

Ben Pfaff wrote:
Duane writes:

On 12/10/2013 11:41 AM, Ben Pfaff wrote:
Jay Beattie writes:
It is not because it has gotten that much worse in the last 20
years (although I got passed by a bus this morning by literally
an inch at 45mph), but riders are much less "tough."

Some of the bus drivers around here like to honk as they pass a
cyclist, for no reason that I can see. If I ever get the
opportunity, I will ask one why they do it.


Maybe to let you know that they see you.


The other 99% of vehicles manage to pass safely without honking.
It's hard for a gigantic vehicle honking as it passes me to come
across as anything other than "get out of my way".


Yeah I know. Just saying that around here they seem to be sensitized to
cyclists and seem to be going out of their way to get that across. I agree
it's disconcerting. But at least you know that they see you.
--
duane
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  #22  
Old December 11th 13, 03:15 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jay Beattie
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Default London "Danger! Danger!"

On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 3:37:21 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 5:51:33 PM UTC-5, sms wrote:

On 12/10/2013 2:41 PM, Graham wrote:




As I said in the previous thread I am not expressing a view either way just trying to make sure whatever argument takes place here does so based on the actual data rather than supposition or speculation and that it be based on metrics that are relevent to people's actual or perceived notion of safety.




That's an admirable goal. Unfortunately, as we've seen in debates about


safety, helmets, etc., basing things on actual data is a big problem for


F$#%k because the data never supports his contentions.




Hence taking things out of context and basing contentions on irrelevant


metrics is an absolute necessity--it's not an option.




My context on this issue is the same context as those doing the protests. What got them riled up was the death count in one month. Therefore I looked at death counts.


You and the protesters have a fundamental disagreement over what is an acceptable death count. People can (and do) argue that a single death is unacceptable and renders a road too dangerous for cyclists. In fact, some cycle paths that are too dangerous for cyclists.

http://www.amsterdamherald.com/index...n-brabant-dies

We should follow the Belgium model: fast cyclists allowed on streets but only with lead and follow cars. In fact, ODOT should provide me with someone on a derny to pace me to work and pull me home. My life is precious, and I deserve that.


-- Jay Beattie.

P.S., sad to see the trend toward e-Bikes in Holland. My riding buddy goes to China a lot a tells some great stories about sharing bicycle facilities with scooter drivers -- who are displacing bicyclists in China.
  #23  
Old December 11th 13, 06:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Default London "Danger! Danger!"

On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 9:15:28 PM UTC-5, Jay Beattie wrote:

You and the protesters have a fundamental disagreement over what is an acceptable death count.


In a sense, that's true, although "acceptable" may be the wrong word. A certain percentage of traffic deaths are regrettable, but - practically speaking - unavoidable.

As an example: By now, all here probably understand that far more pedestrians than cyclists die due to traffic crashes. Most probably understand that the rate per mile (or per km) traveled is probably higher for peds than for cyclists. But never have I heard anyone promoting things like Jersey barriers separating all sidewalks from motor vehicle lanes. Never do we hear calls for railroad style drop-down crossing gates at crosswalks, and only rarely does anyone propose exclusive all-green signals for all pedestrians, while all motorists wait. Instead, in the U.S. (for example) we say "4000+ pedestrians killed, year after year? That's really regrettable." Period.

People can (and do) argue that a single death is unacceptable and renders a road too dangerous for cyclists.


Yep. I've heard the statement "Frank, if only _one_ life can be saved....!" spoken in all seriousness. But in the real world, that's not the way decisions are made. It can't be.

In fact, some cycle paths that are too dangerous for cyclists.

http://www.amsterdamherald.com/index...n-brabant-dies


But that can't be! They have cycletracks! Those cure all problems - just ask Peter Furth!

We should follow the Belgium model: fast cyclists allowed on streets but only with lead and follow cars. In fact, ODOT should provide me with someone on a derny to pace me to work and pull me home. My life is precious, and I deserve that.


Hey, I'd like it in these 20 degree days we're having. Motor pacing keeps you warmer!

- Frank Krygowski
  #24  
Old December 11th 13, 09:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Default London "Danger! Danger!"

On Wednesday, December 11, 2013 2:15:28 AM UTC, Jay Beattie wrote:

In fact, ODOT should provide me with someone on a derny to pace me to work and pull me home. My life is precious, and I deserve that.

-- Jay Beattie.


Amen!

Andre Jute
  #25  
Old December 11th 13, 02:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Default London "Danger! Danger!"

On 12/10/2013 6:15 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:

P.S., sad to see the trend toward e-Bikes in Holland. My riding buddy goes to China a lot a tells some great stories about sharing bicycle facilities with scooter drivers -- who are displacing bicyclists in China.


I've been to China many times and the drop in the number of cyclists is
amazingly large. But a large part of the drop has been due to new subway
lines.

I was in China last year and I don't recall scooters in the separated
bicycle lanes, nor did I see many electric bicycles.

  #26  
Old December 11th 13, 05:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Default London "Danger! Danger!"

On Wednesday, December 11, 2013 8:30:57 AM UTC-5, SMS wrote:
On 12/10/2013 6:15 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:

P.S., sad to see the trend toward e-Bikes in Holland. My riding buddy goes to China a lot a tells some great stories about sharing bicycle facilities with scooter drivers -- who are displacing bicyclists in China.


I've been to China many times and the drop in the number of cyclists is
amazingly large. But a large part of the drop has been due to new subway
lines.


It will be interesting to watch Northern European and Chinese trends for the next several years. I've read some rumblings about user dissatisfaction with bike infrastructure, safety complaints, and some official frustration that the glorious dream of ever-increasing cycling seems to be failing.

The interesting part will be whether it dawns on people like Peter Furth, John Pucher, Mia Birk and others that high cycling volumes depend on dozens of economic and societal factors, NOT just on the presence of cycle tracks.

After decades of demanding bike lanes, these people now realize that bike lanes won't change Podunk into Copenhagen. But they still don't admit that Europe's greater bicycle use is due to immense differences in city density, history, terrain, climate, auto taxes, fuel prices, licensing difficulty, parking scarcity, living spaces, public transportation, liability laws, suburban growth and other aspects of culture. Instead, that crew is now attributing (almost?) all the cycling popularity to one "new" factor: cycle tracks. "Guess what? _Cycle tracks_ will change Podunk into Copenhagen!"

Of course, it's very hard to get a person to admit they're wrong, when their job depends on convincing people they are right.

- Frank Krygowski
  #27  
Old December 11th 13, 05:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mark J.
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Default BEADING TIRES

On 12/10/2013 11:19 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:

TECHNICAL TOPIC CHANGE: Anyone have a great technique for beading difficult tires. My studs love to hang up and not bead, so they are like riding on square tires. Running up the pressure doesn't do the trick. I could soap them up before mounting, but short of that, anyone have tried and true technique?

-- Jay Beattie.


Pump to about 10 or 15 psi, then muscle them into place by gripping,
pushing "up" on sidewall with thumbs. Likewise, where the bead is
riding high, push "down". Works /sometimes/.

Or just build a set of wheels dedicated to your studs. I did. Makes
the last-minute morning decision to "stud up" easier to make, when
conditions are iffy and black ice is a possibility.

Mark J.

  #28  
Old December 11th 13, 08:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
David Scheidt
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Default London "Danger! Danger!"/BEADING TIRES

Jay Beattie wrote:
:TECHNICAL TOPIC CHANGE: Anyone have a great technique for beading
:difficult tires. My studs love to hang up and not bead, so they are like
:riding on square tires. Running up the pressure doesn't do the trick. I
:could soap them up before mounting, but short of that, anyone have tried
:and true technique?

Spray some ether on the bead (outside the tire) and toss a match on
it. (Hey, it fits the DANGER! DANGER! theme, and it really does
work...)

Failing that, beg a tablespoon of mountin lubricant from a garage, and
apply it with a q-tip.



--
sig 110
  #29  
Old December 11th 13, 10:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
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Default London "Danger! Danger!"/BEADING TIRES

David Scheidt writes:

Jay Beattie wrote:
:TECHNICAL TOPIC CHANGE: Anyone have a great technique for beading
:difficult tires. My studs love to hang up and not bead, so they are like
:riding on square tires. Running up the pressure doesn't do the trick. I
:could soap them up before mounting, but short of that, anyone have tried
:and true technique?

Spray some ether on the bead (outside the tire) and toss a match on

and outside the house

it. (Hey, it fits the DANGER! DANGER! theme, and it really does
work...)

Failing that, beg a tablespoon of mountin lubricant from a garage, and
apply it with a q-tip.


--
  #30  
Old December 12th 13, 02:18 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Default London "Danger! Danger!"

On Wed, 11 Dec 2013 08:04:38 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 11, 2013 8:30:57 AM UTC-5, SMS wrote:
On 12/10/2013 6:15 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:

P.S., sad to see the trend toward e-Bikes in Holland. My riding buddy goes to China a lot a tells some great stories about sharing bicycle facilities with scooter drivers -- who are displacing bicyclists in China.


I've been to China many times and the drop in the number of cyclists is
amazingly large. But a large part of the drop has been due to new subway
lines.


It will be interesting to watch Northern European and Chinese trends for the next several years. I've read some rumblings about user dissatisfaction with bike infrastructure, safety complaints, and some official frustration that the glorious dream of ever-increasing cycling seems to be failing.

The interesting part will be whether it dawns on people like Peter Furth, John Pucher, Mia Birk and others that high cycling volumes depend on dozens of economic and societal factors, NOT just on the presence of cycle tracks.

After decades of demanding bike lanes, these people now realize that bike lanes won't change Podunk into Copenhagen. But they still don't admit that Europe's greater bicycle use is due to immense differences in city density, history, terrain, climate, auto taxes, fuel prices, licensing difficulty, parking scarcity, living spaces, public transportation, liability laws, suburban growth and other aspects of culture. Instead, that crew is now attributing (almost?) all the cycling popularity to one "new" factor: cycle tracks. "Guess what? _Cycle tracks_ will change Podunk into Copenhagen!"

Of course, it's very hard to get a person to admit they're wrong, when their job depends on convincing people they are right.

- Frank Krygowski


Having lived in developing countries for a considerable time it is
obvious that bicycle use is relates to general prosperity, inversely.
As family income increases the use of bicycles decreases, or perhaps
one might better say that the use of motorized vehicles increases.

And it might be added that with the advent of motorized transportation
people are no longer forced to live in a tenement in the slums near
the factory but can move to the suburbs and perhaps even buy a small
house of their own.
--
Cheers,

John B.
 




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