How does I fix these cranks?

On 28/09/12 10:15, Doug Cimperman wrote:
On 9/27/2012 6:05 PM, AMuzi wrote:

The Shimano unit is a stamped cartridge. Cannot be opened in a
nondestructive manner.

Some other similar looking products of better quality such as Tange,
IRD, Phil can exchange bearing cartridges but none of these units uses a
loose ball system


I thought about getting a square-taper with cartridge bearings; I would
have preferred it but couldn't find any cheaper options. Just Phil Wood,
Dura-Ace, ect.

The campy ones were replaceable when I was using them, but still not
"cheap".

--
JS.

On Thu, 27 Sep 2012 07:21:35 -0500, Doug Cimperman
wrote:

On 9/27/2012 6:02 AM, John B. wrote:

(I find it amusing watching BB-changing videos that people know you're
supposed to put anti-seize on the cup threads, but they use regular
grease and not real anti-seize...?)

Some people use teflon tape :-)


Some people are silly. I am a great advocate of teflon lube, but there
are places where it doesn't belong. It makes bolts loosen as well as it
makes them tighten.

I will have to email the manufacturer about the BB, since the chainline
isn't real clear either. The seat tube is extra-fat but the front
derailler is mounted on another regular-size tube.

If measuring the chain line is a bit baffling search Sheldon's site.
It makes chain line measurements a bit clearer.


The chainline turns out to be the usual 47mm.

So far it looks like about $140, shopping on Amazon-
BBT-19 tool, for getting the current cups off ($18)
BBT-22 tool, for getting the square-taper cups on ($17)
A Park tool compact crank puller ($14)
Shimano UN55 bottom bracket 68 x 122.5 --- ($23)
Shimano FC-2300 Crankset ($67)

-----

I find it somewhat odd that the un-series bottom brackets aren't
technically "user serviceable"... There is no parts breakdown anywhere I
can find.
This page-
http://www.bikepro.com/products/bott...shimun90.shtml
says that they are ball & cone apparently, but gives no advice on
adjusting or lubricating them. Another page elsewhere says that you
can't buy parts; if the unit fails under warranty you just return the
whole unit. :|

If you are talking about the UN-54 type you don't return it, you take
it out and throw it away and screw in a new one. This is not an
uncommon practice, to sell a part as a complete unit rather then a
collection of bits.

I think that the price for a UN-54 is in the $20 range. It requires
any special tooling to repair them it is likely cheaper to just
replace the entire unit.

--
Cheers,
John B.

Doug Cimperman wrote:
On 9/27/2012 6:02 AM, John B. wrote:

(I find it amusing watching BB-changing videos that people know you're
supposed to put anti-seize on the cup threads, but they use regular
grease and not real anti-seize...?)

Some people use teflon tape :-)


Some people are silly. I am a great advocate of teflon lube, but there
are places where it doesn't belong. It makes bolts loosen as well as it
makes them tighten.

Say what you will, but teflon tape works. It's very well known for
stopping creaks in bottom bracket threads.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sep 27, 8:40*pm, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
Doug Cimperman wrote:
On 9/27/2012 6:02 AM, John B. wrote:

(I find it amusing watching BB-changing videos that people know you're
supposed to put anti-seize on the cup threads, but they use regular
grease and not real anti-seize...?)

Some people use teflon tape :-)

Some people are silly. I am a great advocate of teflon lube, but there
are places where it doesn't belong. It makes bolts loosen as well as it
makes them tighten.

Say what you will, but teflon tape works. *It's very well known for
stopping creaks in bottom bracket threads.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Amazingly enough, I agree.
DR

Op 28-9-2012 4:40, Frank Krygowski schreef:
Doug Cimperman wrote:
On 9/27/2012 6:02 AM, John B. wrote:

(I find it amusing watching BB-changing videos that people know you're
supposed to put anti-seize on the cup threads, but they use regular
grease and not real anti-seize...?)

Some people use teflon tape :-)


Some people are silly. I am a great advocate of teflon lube, but there
are places where it doesn't belong. It makes bolts loosen as well as it
makes them tighten.

Say what you will, but teflon tape works. It's very well known for
stopping creaks in bottom bracket threads.


Teflon tape is helpfull when you have too loose ****ty threads. Normally
anti seize or grease (you have to replace it more often) and the proper
torque will do fine. I never needed teflon tape.

Lou

On Fri, 28 Sep 2012 06:59:59 +0100, Phil W Lee
wrote:

James considered Fri, 28 Sep 2012 08:42:11
+1000 the perfect time to write:

On 28/09/12 08:34, Phil W Lee wrote:
John B. considered Thu, 27 Sep 2012 18:13:51
+0700 the perfect time to write:

On Wed, 26 Sep 2012 21:25:47 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

-snip cranks-
John B. wrote:

I might comment that DIY is only faster and cheaper when you know what
you are doing. It can be decidedly not, when you don't. :-)




Wise words.

There's a description over on rec.autos.tech today about
replacing a gas tank on a modern (pump in tank, EPA regs,
electronics etc) car. Such a tedious and complex job! 2
guys, one a professional mechanic, five hours. Yikes!

Replacing it is easy - after all, you have broken everything that will
break taking it out :-)

Yeah, but it gets hard to follow the advice in the manual "Replacement
is the reverse of disassembly" when the disassembly involved a pair of
side-cutters, a nut-splitter, 3 sizes of easy-out, a hacksaw,
angle-grinder, cold chisel, 3 different utility knives, and a gas-axe



I try to avoid the use of angle grinders, gas-axes and the like, while
working around a fuel system. YMMV.

Not done it myself, but if you completely empty the tank first, leave
it open for a while in the fresh air, and then wave a blowtorch across
the open filler before starting, the fumes just go "Woof!" and the
tank is then safe to work on.
I watched this procedure (from a safe distance) in a motorcycle racing
paddock when someone discovered they didn't have enough fuel capacity
for the race, and was modifying their tank in the brief opportunity
between practice and racing.
The scrutineers raised their eyebrows a little, but passed it.

I once watched a welder do something similar. The tank was supposed to
be "purged and steam cleaned and completely safe". As soon as the
welder struck an arc it belched a great streak of fire out of the
filler and right up his shirt sleeve. Burned all the hair off his
forearm :-)
Apparently it was all most "purged and steam cleaned and completely
safe" as that one belch was all that happened but the welder stomped
off swearing and the guy with the tank had to get it fixed somewhere
else.
--
Cheers,
John B.

On Thu, 27 Sep 2012 19:15:52 -0500, Doug Cimperman
wrote:

On 9/27/2012 6:05 PM, AMuzi wrote:

The Shimano unit is a stamped cartridge. Cannot be opened in a
nondestructive manner.

Some other similar looking products of better quality such as Tange,
IRD, Phil can exchange bearing cartridges but none of these units uses a
loose ball system


I thought about getting a square-taper with cartridge bearings; I would
have preferred it but couldn't find any cheaper options. Just Phil Wood,
Dura-Ace, ect.

If you are intent on the cheapest possible fix you might be able to
get a set of the old three piece bottom brackets with the loose balls
and install that. From a functional point of view it is probably as
efficient as the more modern ones and if you keep it greased and
adjusted and will likely last a lifetime.

--
Cheers,
John B.

On 9/28/2012 6:01 AM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 Sep 2012 19:15:52 -0500, Doug Cimperman
wrote:

On 9/27/2012 6:05 PM, AMuzi wrote:

The Shimano unit is a stamped cartridge. Cannot be opened in a
nondestructive manner.

Some other similar looking products of better quality such as Tange,
IRD, Phil can exchange bearing cartridges but none of these units uses a
loose ball system


I thought about getting a square-taper with cartridge bearings; I would
have preferred it but couldn't find any cheaper options. Just Phil Wood,
Dura-Ace, ect.

If you are intent on the cheapest possible fix you might be able to
get a set of the old three piece bottom brackets with the loose balls
and install that. From a functional point of view it is probably as
efficient as the more modern ones and if you keep it greased and
adjusted and will likely last a lifetime.


Well,,,,, I didn't choose the absolute cheapest solution. I did want
Shimano parts, and I didn't get the absolute cheapest ones there either.

The UN55 is $24 and a Phil Wood BB would be around $200 (if I saw it
correctly). If the UN55 fails soon then I'll probably want to spend more
than $24 on another BB, but I probably won't jump up to the $200 level.
Is there any square-taper/cartridge bearing BB's for $100? $75? I did
not find any.

I see the Shimano 105 has a road triple crank, but it has the integrated
spindle. Is it forged all in one piece, or is the spindle pressed in? It
would hit up near $300 for the BB and cranks.

On Fri, 28 Sep 2012 08:26:47 -0500, Doug Cimperman
wrote:

On 9/28/2012 6:01 AM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 Sep 2012 19:15:52 -0500, Doug Cimperman
wrote:

On 9/27/2012 6:05 PM, AMuzi wrote:

The Shimano unit is a stamped cartridge. Cannot be opened in a
nondestructive manner.

Some other similar looking products of better quality such as Tange,
IRD, Phil can exchange bearing cartridges but none of these units uses a
loose ball system


I thought about getting a square-taper with cartridge bearings; I would
have preferred it but couldn't find any cheaper options. Just Phil Wood,
Dura-Ace, ect.

If you are intent on the cheapest possible fix you might be able to
get a set of the old three piece bottom brackets with the loose balls
and install that. From a functional point of view it is probably as
efficient as the more modern ones and if you keep it greased and
adjusted and will likely last a lifetime.


Well,,,,, I didn't choose the absolute cheapest solution. I did want
Shimano parts, and I didn't get the absolute cheapest ones there either.

The UN55 is $24 and a Phil Wood BB would be around $200 (if I saw it
correctly). If the UN55 fails soon then I'll probably want to spend more
than $24 on another BB, but I probably won't jump up to the $200 level.
Is there any square-taper/cartridge bearing BB's for $100? $75? I did
not find any.

I see the Shimano 105 has a road triple crank, but it has the integrated
spindle. Is it forged all in one piece, or is the spindle pressed in? It
would hit up near $300 for the BB and cranks.

I don't really know. I have a couple of MTB crank sets with the hollow
axle but I've no idea how the steel axle is attached to the aluminum
crank. As for price try one of the other Shimano grades.

--
Cheers,
John B.

On 9/28/2012 12:59 AM, Phil W Lee wrote:
James considered Fri, 28 Sep 2012 08:42:11
+1000 the perfect time to write:

On 28/09/12 08:34, Phil W Lee wrote:
John B. considered Thu, 27 Sep 2012 18:13:51
+0700 the perfect time to write:

On Wed, 26 Sep 2012 21:25:47 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

-snip cranks-
John B. wrote:

I might comment that DIY is only faster and cheaper when you know what
you are doing. It can be decidedly not, when you don't. :-)




Wise words.

There's a description over on rec.autos.tech today about
replacing a gas tank on a modern (pump in tank, EPA regs,
electronics etc) car. Such a tedious and complex job! 2
guys, one a professional mechanic, five hours. Yikes!

Replacing it is easy - after all, you have broken everything that will
break taking it out :-)

Yeah, but it gets hard to follow the advice in the manual "Replacement
is the reverse of disassembly" when the disassembly involved a pair of
side-cutters, a nut-splitter, 3 sizes of easy-out, a hacksaw,
angle-grinder, cold chisel, 3 different utility knives, and a gas-axe



I try to avoid the use of angle grinders, gas-axes and the like, while
working around a fuel system. YMMV.

Not done it myself, but if you completely empty the tank first, leave
it open for a while in the fresh air, and then wave a blowtorch across
the open filler before starting, the fumes just go "Woof!" and the
tank is then safe to work on.
I watched this procedure (from a safe distance) in a motorcycle racing
paddock when someone discovered they didn't have enough fuel capacity
for the race, and was modifying their tank in the brief opportunity
between practice and racing.
The scrutineers raised their eyebrows a little, but passed it.



I changed a 1965 Chevy tank a couple of years ago in about
an hour including fabricating new tank straps. Based on
that, I would have had absolutely no idea of the complexity
of the job on a modern car. Regarding OP, the 'unknown
unknowns' can be significant.

btw DO NOT do that as Mr Lee describes!! Having leaded in
seams on fuel tanks, the usual method is to nearly fill with
water with the damaged area on top. Then wave a torch across
the area to clear any residual fumes. An 'empty' tank with
fuel vapor is effectively a bomb.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971