Mountain Biker Ignores "Closed" Sign, Falls Off Cliff

Mike Vandeman wrote:

Of course Patty neglected to mention that the trail was marked "closed", due to
this danger.

The road (not trail) is marked 'closed' to car traffic and barriers are
up at each end.
However, there are deliberate gaps so that walkers and bicyclists can
continue to use the road and such use is permitted.
But mountain bikers say that public lands should be open to them,
"because we pay taxes"....

For that matter the trails in the immediate vicinity of the Carquinez
Scenic Drive road are multi-use and also open to both hikers and
cyclists [see map at:
http://www.ebparks.org/parks/carquin.htm].



Mike


From: Patty Ciesla
Subject: [BTCEB Talk] Martinez Mountain Biker Tumbles Off Cliff
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:32:09 -0700

Martinez Mountain Biker Tumbles Off Cliff
Source: Associated Press
Publication date: 2005-04-11


RICHMOND, Calif.--A 50-year-old mountain biker was in serious condition Sunday
after tumbling off a cliff in Contra Costa County.

Gerald Hjelle, of Martinez, was cycling in the Carquinez Scenic Park southeast
of the Carquinez Bridge Sunday afternoon when he fell 70 feet from the roadway,
according to Sonoma County sheriff's officials.

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:57:06 -0700, Peter wrote:

..Mike Vandeman wrote:
..
.. Of course Patty neglected to mention that the trail was marked "closed", due to
.. this danger.
..
..The road (not trail) is marked 'closed' to car traffic and barriers are
..up at each end.
..However, there are deliberate gaps so that walkers and bicyclists can
..continue to use the road and such use is permitted.

BS. Closed is closed.

.. But mountain bikers say that public lands should be open to them,
.. "because we pay taxes"....
..
..For that matter the trails in the immediate vicinity of the Carquinez
..Scenic Drive road are multi-use and also open to both hikers and
..cyclists [see map at:
..http://www.ebparks.org/parks/carquin.htm].
..
..
..
.. Mike
..
..
.. From: Patty Ciesla
.. Subject: [BTCEB Talk] Martinez Mountain Biker Tumbles Off Cliff
.. Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:32:09 -0700
..
.. Martinez Mountain Biker Tumbles Off Cliff
.. Source: Associated Press
.. Publication date: 2005-04-11
..
..
.. RICHMOND, Calif.--A 50-year-old mountain biker was in serious condition Sunday
.. after tumbling off a cliff in Contra Costa County.
..
.. Gerald Hjelle, of Martinez, was cycling in the Carquinez Scenic Park southeast
.. of the Carquinez Bridge Sunday afternoon when he fell 70 feet from the roadway,
.. according to Sonoma County sheriff's officials.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:57:06 -0700, Peter wrote:

.Mike Vandeman wrote:
.
. Of course Patty neglected to mention that the trail was marked
"closed", due to
. this danger.
.
.The road (not trail) is marked 'closed' to car traffic and barriers are
.up at each end.
.However, there are deliberate gaps so that walkers and bicyclists can
.continue to use the road and such use is permitted.

BS. Closed is closed.


Clearly a lie.

1.) the article does not describe the status of the road, open or closed.
2.) the article clearly describes the route as a road, not a trail
3.) if the route was indeed a road, then the road can be closed to cars and
trucks, but open to pedestrians and bicycles. Closed can be conditional, and
often is. But, you are the guy that thinks Day Use means to be used in
daylight hours.

Jeff Strickland wrote:


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:57:06 -0700, Peter wrote:

.Mike Vandeman wrote:
.
. Of course Patty neglected to mention that the trail was marked
"closed", due to
. this danger.
.
.The road (not trail) is marked 'closed' to car traffic and barriers are
.up at each end.
.However, there are deliberate gaps so that walkers and bicyclists can
.continue to use the road and such use is permitted.

BS. Closed is closed.


Clearly a lie.

1.) the article does not describe the status of the road, open or closed.
2.) the article clearly describes the route as a road, not a trail
3.) if the route was indeed a road, then the road can be closed to
cars and trucks, but open to pedestrians and bicycles. Closed can be
conditional, and often is. But, you are the guy that thinks Day Use
means to be used in daylight hours.

See what I mean about reality? He/she/it has no conception whatever of
reality, only monomaniacle androgynist obsession. It borders on but
doesn not quite cross into certifiable lunacy.

But let's not send him/her/it away just yet - there're many potentially
dull evenings ahead when feeding/provoking the troll will provide a lite
motif.

Pete H

--
A person is free only in
the freedom of other persons.
W. Berry

Mike, I would like you to answer honestly I have some respect for you
and am not trying to attack you. To begin, from what I have seen,
mountain bikers use trails designated for mountain bikes. I will
accept that some mountain bikers go off the trails and I will accept
that both scenarios have some amount of impact on the land. Everytime
I hike (in non-bear country) I find empty bottles and plastic wrappers
etc all over the place, I would have a hard time believing these come
from people biking. Is this more or less of a hazard than mouintain
biking? What about people who feed animals either on purpose or
accidently? Which causes more harm? What about people who accidently
start forest fires? I would find it hard to believe that a fire would
be less of a problem than a mountain biker. What about factories that
polute rivers and streams? If you could eliminate polluting factories
or mountain bikers, which would you choose? It seems to me that all
people can be held responsible for damaging wildlife why do you single
out mountain bikers? I am not a mountain biker, but I am a cyclist who
owns an automobile (geo metro) but chooses not to use it except for
long trips. I believe that fighting auto dependancy is a good cause.
It seems to me that you are expending an incredible amount of personal
energy on fighting mountain-bikers and that is your choice. You must
also decide whether or not you are having a positive impact with your
work, do you think you are? Instead of spreading yourself between many
causes why not focus on fighting one fight, like automobile dependancy?

Good luck,
bill

wrote in message
ups.com...
Mike, I would like you to answer honestly I have some respect for you
and am not trying to attack you. To begin, from what I have seen,
mountain bikers use trails designated for mountain bikes. I will
accept that some mountain bikers go off the trails and I will accept
that both scenarios have some amount of impact on the land. Everytime
I hike (in non-bear country) I find empty bottles and plastic wrappers
etc all over the place, I would have a hard time believing these come
from people biking. Is this more or less of a hazard than mouintain
biking? What about people who feed animals either on purpose or
accidently? Which causes more harm? What about people who accidently
start forest fires? I would find it hard to believe that a fire would
be less of a problem than a mountain biker. What about factories that
polute rivers and streams? If you could eliminate polluting factories
or mountain bikers, which would you choose? It seems to me that all
people can be held responsible for damaging wildlife why do you single
out mountain bikers? I am not a mountain biker, but I am a cyclist who
owns an automobile (geo metro) but chooses not to use it except for
long trips. I believe that fighting auto dependancy is a good cause.
It seems to me that you are expending an incredible amount of personal
energy on fighting mountain-bikers and that is your choice. You must
also decide whether or not you are having a positive impact with your
work, do you think you are? Instead of spreading yourself between many
causes why not focus on fighting one fight, like automobile dependancy?

Good luck,
bill


You're assuming Mike is a reasonable person capable of using logic,
WRONG!

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 18:34:31 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" wrote:

..
.."Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
. ..
.. On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:57:06 -0700, Peter wrote:
..
.. .Mike Vandeman wrote:
.. .
.. . Of course Patty neglected to mention that the trail was marked
.. "closed", due to
.. . this danger.
.. .
.. .The road (not trail) is marked 'closed' to car traffic and barriers are
.. .up at each end.
.. .However, there are deliberate gaps so that walkers and bicyclists can
.. .continue to use the road and such use is permitted.
..
.. BS. Closed is closed.
..
..
..Clearly a lie.
..
..1.) the article does not describe the status of the road, open or closed.

So what? It was marked "closed".

..2.) the article clearly describes the route as a road, not a trail
..3.) if the route was indeed a road, then the road can be closed to cars and
..trucks, but open to pedestrians and bicycles. Closed can be conditional, and
..often is. But, you are the guy that thinks Day Use means to be used in
..daylight hours.

It was closed to everyone. The mountain biker ignored the sign, as mountain
bikers frequently do.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 18:34:31 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
wrote:

.
."Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
.. .
. On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:57:06 -0700, Peter wrote:
.
. .Mike Vandeman wrote:
. .
. . Of course Patty neglected to mention that the trail was marked
. "closed", due to
. . this danger.
. .
. .The road (not trail) is marked 'closed' to car traffic and barriers
are
. .up at each end.
. .However, there are deliberate gaps so that walkers and bicyclists can
. .continue to use the road and such use is permitted.
.
. BS. Closed is closed.
.
.
.Clearly a lie.
.
.1.) the article does not describe the status of the road, open or closed.

So what? It was marked "closed".


That is not a known condition as reported in the article. It is only known
because you said so, and you are a known liar.



.2.) the article clearly describes the route as a road, not a trail
.3.) if the route was indeed a road, then the road can be closed to cars
and
.trucks, but open to pedestrians and bicycles. Closed can be conditional,
and
.often is. But, you are the guy that thinks Day Use means to be used in
.daylight hours.

It was closed to everyone. The mountain biker ignored the sign, as
mountain
bikers frequently do.

Again, this is what you say, but there is no evidence, beyond your
assertion, that it is true. I have seen thousands of Road Closed signs that
werre only meant to prevent automobile traffic. Indeed. some of the best
hiking is on the other side of a Road Closed sign.

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 18:34:31 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
wrote:

.
."Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
.. .
. On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:57:06 -0700, Peter wrote:
.
. .Mike Vandeman wrote:
. .
. . Of course Patty neglected to mention that the trail was marked
. "closed", due to
. . this danger.
. .
. .The road (not trail) is marked 'closed' to car traffic and barriers
are
. .up at each end.
. .However, there are deliberate gaps so that walkers and bicyclists can
. .continue to use the road and such use is permitted.
.
. BS. Closed is closed.
.
.
.Clearly a lie.
.
.1.) the article does not describe the status of the road, open or closed.

So what? It was marked "closed".

.2.) the article clearly describes the route as a road, not a trail
.3.) if the route was indeed a road, then the road can be closed to cars
and
.trucks, but open to pedestrians and bicycles. Closed can be conditional,
and
.often is. But, you are the guy that thinks Day Use means to be used in
.daylight hours.

It was closed to everyone. The mountain biker ignored the sign, as
mountain
bikers frequently do.

Have you been there? Have you seen the statute on this particular piece of
road? What exactly is the case? Why are your "hikers" not being chastised
for crossing this area if "closed meand closed"? You "inserted" information
into a story that did not mention anything of which you state. Did you take
a page from Bush's "How to find WMD" handbook? After all these years, you
must be running out of straws to grasp.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande