Wider tires, All-road bikes

On Wednesday, January 23, 2019 at 5:14:46 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 10:51:28 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 23, 2019 at 12:53:26 AM UTC+1, Doug Cimperman wrote:
On 1/22/2019 10:17 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Here's Jan Heine's latest on wide tire road bikes, or "All-Road Bikes."

https://janheine.wordpress.com/

I guess that link takes you to the most recent edition of his blog, so
when this post gets old you'll probably have to scan downwards.

- Frank Krygowski

Wider tires is something that could help a lot of 'normal' riders, but
running fat(ter) tires also requires running fatter rims for them to
work well--and most people still don't bother with that part.

I've seen online a lot where someone says that they have a bike with
30mm tires and ask if they can put ~45's or whatever on it... -and
everyone else says "yea sure, if the tires will fit in the
frame/fenders". And it's true that it works, but it works lousy. I'm
usually the only one pointing out that you don't get the full benefit of
fatter tires unless you move to wider rims as well.

It goes something like this:
1. The only reason to run fatter tires is to run them at lower
pressures, to absorb road bumps better.
2. But if you get wide tires and mount them on narrow rims, then you
have to keep them inflated to fairly-high pressures to keep them from
squirming and folding over in turns.
3. So if you mount a fat tire on a skinny rim, all you end up with is a
much heavier, hard-riding tire. The fatter tire's greater cushioning
ability is lost with the raised inflation pressure that becomes necessary.


I totally agree. A wider tire on the same rim inflated to same pressure (that is what most people do) results in a much harsher ride. I see no point in getting wider than 25 mm tires on rims normally used for road bikes.


As for Mr Heine: I consider him to still be green, as he hasn't
graduated to recumbents yet.


Who is this Mr Heine?

Lou

https://janheine.wordpress.com/ He's a guy developing a market niche. He sells Compass products and is now making Rene Herse products under a some sort of agreement with the Herse estate. https://janheine.wordpress.com/2017/...y-of-function/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9_Herse

Probably made in the same Chinese factories as Velo Orange: https://www.compasscycle.com/product...ry/rene-herse/ WTF? $550 for a triple crank? Yikes.

I remember back in the mid to late '70s going to the Wheelsmith shop in Palo Alto. It was hardly more than a shed, but it had all these old bikes out front -- including a few Rene Herses with odd-ball derailleur systems and old rusted parts. It was the one and only time a bike seemed creepy to me. https://tinyurl.com/yblk6cqy A few hundred yards away was Palo Alto Bikes with Tom Richey building modern frames. I liked fast-back stays, although some of his weren't all that well executed, IMO. At the time, my index frame for awesome was the California Masi. https://belle-macchine.com/2014/03/1...gc-california/ Then I ran into a Bruce Gordon http://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA...lman-Jones.htm
That renewed my interest in fast-back stays. Caylor's fast-back stays were nice, too. Back then, nobody was impressed that you wore wool or rode a steel frame. Maybe you could be more cool than the next guy by drilling a few more holes in your crank.

-- Jay Beattie.

I bought a drillium chainring back in the 80's (can't remember the brand). I don't think I could have gotten any more **** from the peloton if I had been wearing a tutu

On 1/23/2019 5:14 PM, jbeattie wrote:
... I liked fast-back stays, although some of his weren't all that well
executed, IMO. At the time, my index frame for awesome was the
California Masi.
https://belle-macchine.com/2014/03/1...gc-california/ Then I ran
into a Bruce Gordon
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA...lman-Jones.htm
That renewed my interest in fast-back stays. Caylor's fast-back stays were nice, too.

I started riding avidly in a community where no other adults rode bikes.
Our first ten (count 'em - ten!) speeds were some generic imports from
Europe. When we upgraded to "good" bikes they were lower end Raleighs.

In those days, I drooled whenever I saw a real racing bike. I loved the
light weight, the thin tires, the minimalism, although I didn't feel I
could afford one. And back then, I was also enamored of racing motorcycles.

Over the years, my tastes have changed. The classic art of a racing Masi
has been replaced by carbon fiber sculptures that jar me aesthetically;
and besides, there's just not much to look at in a racing bike. I'm more
interested in the touring bikes that arrive at our Warm Showers house,
where I can examine the gearing choice, the racks, the fenders, the
lighting systems, the packs, etc. etc.

I'm now the same way with motorcycles. I like to see ones that look as
if they've been really used, and have actually been somewhere. Somewhere
far.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 12:45:39 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/23/2019 2:40 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 23, 2019 at 5:02:48 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/22/2019 10:33 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 13:19:29 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

And in his blog posts, he's
indicated a fair amount of helmet skepticism. But one sits on his
head in almost all photos.

The helmets in the photos protect him from idiots.

In a sense, that might be true.



That was true in case of my last crash 2 months ago because of an idiot coming out of the bushes in the dark. I was not wearing a helmet. I can't remember anything about the crash, going to hospital in an ambulance and most of the treatment in the hospital. I didn't passed out but just can't remember anything for 3 hours. Very weird. Still figuring out if I have to reconsider my helmet position as I realized that I can't anticipate all the stupid actions of other people but on the other hand I didn't die. For the time being I wear a helmet every ride now as I still have short moments of dizziness. YMMV.

A lot of helmet sales are driven by such anecdotes - things like "I
didn't wear one and I got hurt" as above, or "Good thing I wore one or I
would have been hurt." Not to mention the "He was not wearing a helmet"
statements when a cyclist gets totally flattened by a turning truck.

Funny thing is, any dispassionate look at the sources of brain injuries
proves that there are far, far more anecdotes available from pedestrians
and motorists. For pedestrians, that's true even per mile traveled.

Again, in the U.S., bicyclists are only 0.6% of brain injury fatalities.
Pedestrians are far more and motorists even more. But those groups
don't generate helmet anecdotes. Why? Because nobody has chosen to sell
or promote helmets for walkers or motorists.


How about this anecdote.

I've been in two crashes severe enough to break bones, the most severe
crash resulted in a broken pelvis and a month stay in the hospital.
In neither case did my helmet touch the ground, or perhaps better said
that there were no marks on my helmet to indicate contact with the
ground.

However as my wife firmly believer in safety, wearing a helmet does
have a positive effect in that if I wear a helmet my wife doesn't nag
me about my long Sunday rides :-)


Cheers,
John B.

On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 16:45:01 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/23/2019 3:23 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, January 23, 2019 at 1:10:29 PM UTC-5, wrote:

When it comes to helmets Frank's mileage most definitely varies and he's strongly anti-helmet. No matter what a helmet does in a crash Frank will trot out his statistics about traumatic brain injuries. A number of years ago I crashed with such force that my head bounced twice on the asphalt. Funny thing though, I didn't get any scrapes or any other injuries to my head. I was wearing a helmet that day and I'k glad I did. I don't give a flying f*** what people say about MY accident. the simple fact is that I was able to pick up my bicycle, check it for damage and then continue my ride without even needing first aid for head cuts/scrapes. If people want to wear a helmet then that should be up to them not some person thousands of mile/kilometers away.

I'm glad you weren't injured worse.

BTW, another reason I like a helmet is because the mirror on it lets me ride with or without sunglasses and I have the mirror with me no which of my bicycles I ride. Ditto for external battery light versus dynamo lights. What works for one may NOT meet the needs/wants of others.

I use eyeglass mirrors that fit on my normal glasses. My glasses darken
in sunlight, so I don't bother with sunglasses.

I've made my own mirrors since the 1970s, each one from a few inches of
wire plus about two square cm of plastic mirror material. They weigh
about 2 grams, according to the electronic scale I was recently given. I
keep one in each handlebar bag.


Doesn't the change in focus from looking down the road to looking at a
mirror close to your eye bother you? I made one of those wire and
mirror devices and the change in focus from watching the road to
looking in the mirror about drove me crazy so I went back to looking
over my shoulder.


Cheers,
John B.

On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 14:50:47 -0800 (PST), Zen Cycle
wrote:

On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 6:25:05 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 12:07:50 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot

I'm beginning to see bikes over here with what appear to be 4 inch, or
maybe larger, tires. They look much like a hard tail MTB but with much
wider forks.

Fatbikes have been out for a while now. The only thing that irritates me about them is that they bitch about 'skinny' MTBs riding on "their" trails and leaving ruts - ignoring the fact that the trails they ride are usually multi-use, and get beat to **** by walkers, snowshoes, xc skis, and horses. I call them "fatbike fashionistas".


As I don't ride "in the bush" I only see the so called "fat bikes" on
the road, but they certainly look cumbersome.



Cheers,
John B.

On Wednesday, January 23, 2019 at 6:23:46 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
Snipped

Doesn't the change in focus from looking down the road to looking at a
mirror close to your eye bother you? I made one of those wire and
mirror devices and the change in focus from watching the road to
looking in the mirror about drove me crazy so I went back to looking
over my shoulder.


Cheers,
John B.

I have no problem at all using the helmet mirror or the eyeglass mirror. I prefer the helmet mirror because my eyeglasses do NOT darken as Frank's do. If I put an eyeglass mirror on my sunglasses over my regular eyeglasses then I have problems seeing into the mirror. I prefer the helmet mirror because of that.

Cheers

On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 18:15:43 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/23/2019 5:14 PM, jbeattie wrote:
... I liked fast-back stays, although some of his weren't all that well
executed, IMO. At the time, my index frame for awesome was the
California Masi.
https://belle-macchine.com/2014/03/1...gc-california/ Then I ran
into a Bruce Gordon
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA...lman-Jones.htm
That renewed my interest in fast-back stays. Caylor's fast-back stays were nice, too.

I started riding avidly in a community where no other adults rode bikes.
Our first ten (count 'em - ten!) speeds were some generic imports from
Europe. When we upgraded to "good" bikes they were lower end Raleighs.

In those days, I drooled whenever I saw a real racing bike. I loved the
light weight, the thin tires, the minimalism, although I didn't feel I
could afford one. And back then, I was also enamored of racing motorcycles.

Over the years, my tastes have changed. The classic art of a racing Masi
has been replaced by carbon fiber sculptures that jar me aesthetically;
and besides, there's just not much to look at in a racing bike. I'm more
interested in the touring bikes that arrive at our Warm Showers house,
where I can examine the gearing choice, the racks, the fenders, the
lighting systems, the packs, etc. etc.

I'm now the same way with motorcycles. I like to see ones that look as
if they've been really used, and have actually been somewhere. Somewhere
far.

I remember the first "10 speed English Racer" (as it was called) I
saw. Skinny frame, our bikes were much stronger with a double top
tube, and skinny tires that the guy was inflating with a long hand
pump - we inflated our tires at the local gas station air hose.

But the rider ( a Dartmouth Collage student) had ridden all the way
from the collage, a seven mile trip, so we were suitably impressed.
In fact the idea that one could actually go somewhere on a bicycle
influenced us to do the same and we actually made a 15 mile out and
back ride a number of times.

Then, of course, I turned sixteen and started driving a car :-)


Cheers,
John B.

On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 15:40:11 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Wednesday, January 23, 2019 at 6:23:46 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
Snipped

Doesn't the change in focus from looking down the road to looking at a
mirror close to your eye bother you? I made one of those wire and
mirror devices and the change in focus from watching the road to
looking in the mirror about drove me crazy so I went back to looking
over my shoulder.


Cheers,
John B.

I have no problem at all using the helmet mirror or the eyeglass mirror. I prefer the helmet mirror because my eyeglasses do NOT darken as Frank's do. If I put an eyeglass mirror on my sunglasses over my regular eyeglasses then I have problems seeing into the mirror. I prefer the helmet mirror because of that.

Cheers

Interesting. I shall have to try the helmet/eyeglass mirror again. I
don't find that looking back over my shoulder is difficult but the
"looking glass" might be easier... if I can focus on it.
As I had cataracts removed from both eyes, my eyes are now pretty much
fixed focus - one close, one long.


Cheers,
John B.

On 1/23/2019 6:23 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 16:45:01 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/23/2019 3:23 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, January 23, 2019 at 1:10:29 PM UTC-5, wrote:

When it comes to helmets Frank's mileage most definitely varies and he's strongly anti-helmet. No matter what a helmet does in a crash Frank will trot out his statistics about traumatic brain injuries. A number of years ago I crashed with such force that my head bounced twice on the asphalt. Funny thing though, I didn't get any scrapes or any other injuries to my head. I was wearing a helmet that day and I'k glad I did. I don't give a flying f*** what people say about MY accident. the simple fact is that I was able to pick up my bicycle, check it for damage and then continue my ride without even needing first aid for head cuts/scrapes. If people want to wear a helmet then that should be up to them not some person thousands of mile/kilometers away.

I'm glad you weren't injured worse.

BTW, another reason I like a helmet is because the mirror on it lets me ride with or without sunglasses and I have the mirror with me no which of my bicycles I ride. Ditto for external battery light versus dynamo lights. What works for one may NOT meet the needs/wants of others.

I use eyeglass mirrors that fit on my normal glasses. My glasses darken
in sunlight, so I don't bother with sunglasses.

I've made my own mirrors since the 1970s, each one from a few inches of
wire plus about two square cm of plastic mirror material. They weigh
about 2 grams, according to the electronic scale I was recently given. I
keep one in each handlebar bag.


Doesn't the change in focus from looking down the road to looking at a
mirror close to your eye bother you? I made one of those wire and
mirror devices and the change in focus from watching the road to
looking in the mirror about drove me crazy so I went back to looking
over my shoulder.

Assuming a flat mirror (which is what I use), looking in the mirror
doesn't require a change in focus, in the sense of adjusting the focal
length of a lens system. Objects in the mirror are at the same distance
they would be if you turned around.

What's required is aiming your eye at the object in the mirror, and more
crucially, getting your brain to pay attention to just that eye. I think
the latter is the bigger problem for most people in the U.S., where the
mirror goes on the left, but most people are right-eye dominant.

I had to learn to temporarily ignore my right eye's image back when I
first used an eyeglass mirror, and IIRC it took a few days to be
comfortable.

It wasn't until years later that I realized I had a habit of blinking as
I shifted my gaze to the mirror. Perhaps that gives my brain a needed
disconnect, allowing the left eye to gain temporary dominance.
--
- Frank Krygowski

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, January 23, 2019 at 6:23:46 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
Snipped

Doesn't the change in focus from looking down the road to looking at a
mirror close to your eye bother you? I made one of those wire and
mirror devices and the change in focus from watching the road to
looking in the mirror about drove me crazy so I went back to looking
over my shoulder.


Cheers,
John B.

I have no problem at all using the helmet mirror or the eyeglass mirror.
I prefer the helmet mirror because my eyeglasses do NOT darken as Frank's
do. If I put an eyeglass mirror on my sunglasses over my regular
eyeglasses then I have problems seeing into the mirror. I prefer the
helmet mirror because of that.

Cheers


I tried a couple of helmet mirrors and while they work for seeing behind I
found that they presented a blind spot when coming to intersections. Now I
use a bar end mirror on my drop bars that seems to work well enough.
Useful especially when commuting in traffic.

--
duane