Disk brakes might be useful

On 2/6/19 1:59 AM, Mark J. wrote:
On 2/5/2019 3:27 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:

snip

That is because you use those cheap and dirty aluminum rims. Switch to
proper chrome plated steel rims and they will last practically for
ever :-)

That's 'cause after a short while, the rider gives up entirely on
braking in the wet.Â*

There you go, exaggerating again. 'Round my way any parked car,
lamppost or tree was a perfectly good brake substitute in inclement
weather. I did know some tree huggers that used bits of cow skin to
replace the synthetic rubber in a bit to save the planet planet, but I
figured it's going to hell in a hand basket anyway so proper rubber all
round for me.

On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 07:15:43 +0100, Tosspot
wrote:

On 2/6/19 12:27 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 05 Feb 2019 10:06:40 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-02-05 09:51, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 11:24:20 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-05 07:21, Radey Shouman wrote:

[...]


When I got home I looked at the rims. They were coated in white
frosty stuff that looked a lot like snow, but stuck much more
resolutely. Not normally much for washing bicycles, I spent a
few minutes cleaning off the frost and salt.

To be clear, the brakes are not modern equipment, but Weinmann
Vainqueur centerpulls, albeit with Kool Stop cartridge pads. I
do find them more than adequate ordinarily.

If I ever buy a new bicycle, I believe I'll favor those
fashionable disk brakes.


Try them out on a friend bike or a rental. You'll never look back.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

CRIKEY! What am I doing WRONG? I ride all year round and I don't have
problems with my rim brakes stopping any of my bicycles. That is even
true for my ancient long out of production Shimano Adamas AX brakes
and my Shimano Dura Ace AX brakes. Grant the Dura Ace AX bicycle is
kept for nicer weather but I have got caught out in the rain with it
and never had a problem. Not have i ever worn out a rim because of
brake wear. I ride thousands of miles every year too.

I just don't get how some people have such drastic problems with rims
wearing out.


Well, the rims on my 1st MTB were nearly shot after the first 1000mi of
foul weather riding. Most of the time I reached on on soggy winter trail
rides there was this goose bump eliciting sandpaper noise.

Needless to say, the next MTB had disc brakes and none of this is
happening now. Why should people put up with inferior components if
there are better ones that even reduce cost per mile over the years?


That is because you use those cheap and dirty aluminum rims. Switch to
proper chrome plated steel rims and they will last practically for
ever :-)

There you go, aluminum rims, another example of churning pushed on us by
the bicycle industry, an inferior product that doesn't solve any
problems at all at even more expense to the beleaguered cyclist.


Yup. Just like plastic bicycles :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 07:19:38 +0100, Tosspot
wrote:

On 2/6/19 1:59 AM, Mark J. wrote:
On 2/5/2019 3:27 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:

snip

That is because you use those cheap and dirty aluminum rims. Switch to
proper chrome plated steel rims and they will last practically for
ever :-)

That's 'cause after a short while, the rider gives up entirely on
braking in the wet.*

There you go, exaggerating again. 'Round my way any parked car,
lamppost or tree was a perfectly good brake substitute in inclement
weather. I did know some tree huggers that used bits of cow skin to
replace the synthetic rubber in a bit to save the planet planet, but I
figured it's going to hell in a hand basket anyway so proper rubber all
round for me.

But aren't bicycle tires made of butyl rubber? A synthetic made from
crude oil?

--

Cheers,

John B.

Radey Shouman wrote:
Sir Ridesalot writes:

On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 2:09:28 PM UTC-5, Radey Shouman wrote:
Sir Ridesalot writes:

Snipped
What causes you to eventually discard rims? Do they just last forever?
Truly we must live in different worlds.

I just don't get how some people have such drastic problems with rims
wearing out.

Not sure what you mean by "drastic". Rims are a wear item.

--

If I get rid of a rim it's usually because it's been bent.

What I mean by "drastic" is people like Joerg who have to replace a
rim because it was worn through by rim brakes withing 1000
miles. Based on MY experience riding on dirt roads, touring with 40
pounds of gear on logging roads for 2 weeks at a time, and riding in
the rain and riding through the winter 1000 miles seems quite a low
number of miles for a pair of rims. I wonder if Joerg rides the
brakes?

I agree that 1000 miles seems a very short life for a rim. But I didn't
say that, and Joerg didn't bring it up, why did you?

As I recall

�Well, the rims on my 1st MTB were nearly shot after the first 1000mi of
foul weather riding. Most of the time I reached on on soggy winter trail
rides there was this goose bump eliciting sandpaper noise.�



--
duane

Frank Krygowski writes:

On 2/5/2019 8:48 PM, AMuzi wrote:


[raised eyebrow] 1000 miles? every year? yikes!

I also consider rims a consumable, but due to heart-shape format or
too many eyelets pulled through. I've never worn out a rim's brake
surface.

I'm glad you said that. I was feeling inadequate because I don't think
I've ever worn out a rim's brake surface.

I've replaced rims mostly when potholes have damaged them so badly
that I can't jack the dents back out (and I've jacked out several bad
dents). Also when switching from 27" to 700c.

Is there a rule of thumb for how thin I can let a braking surface get?
I'm talking about ancient rims that have no indicator groove.

I can offer a cautionary tale, but not a shining example, having
completely worn out a set of rims:

I had noticed that the brake track was ground into the rims, at least a
mm deep, with well-defined shoulders. Being lazy and unreasonably
optimistic, I continued to use them until one day getting a flat with a
large tear in the tire sidewall.

After walking home I found that the rim shape was a bit distorted, and
that the wall was thin enough that I could poke a screwdriver through
without trying too hard. That's too thin.

Not accumulating the mileages frequently described here, I imagined that
this kind of thing was commonplace. Perhaps I brake too much.

--

Duane writes:

Radey Shouman wrote:
Sir Ridesalot writes:

On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 2:09:28 PM UTC-5, Radey Shouman wrote:
Sir Ridesalot writes:

Snipped
What causes you to eventually discard rims? Do they just last forever?
Truly we must live in different worlds.

I just don't get how some people have such drastic problems with rims
wearing out.

Not sure what you mean by "drastic". Rims are a wear item.

--

If I get rid of a rim it's usually because it's been bent.

What I mean by "drastic" is people like Joerg who have to replace a
rim because it was worn through by rim brakes withing 1000
miles. Based on MY experience riding on dirt roads, touring with 40
pounds of gear on logging roads for 2 weeks at a time, and riding in
the rain and riding through the winter 1000 miles seems quite a low
number of miles for a pair of rims. I wonder if Joerg rides the
brakes?

I agree that 1000 miles seems a very short life for a rim. But I didn't
say that, and Joerg didn't bring it up, why did you?

As I recall

�Well, the rims on my 1st MTB were nearly shot after the first 1000mi of
foul weather riding. Most of the time I reached on on soggy winter trail
rides there was this goose bump eliciting sandpaper noise.�

Sorry, that wasn't in the message to which I replied. I thought
Ridesalot was responding to something that Joerg was *just* about to
say, saving him the trouble of actually saying it.


--

On 2019-02-05 22:13, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/5/19 8:53 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-05 10:43, Tosspot wrote:

snip

For me, Shimano mineral oil disc brakes have been maintenance free
for years now.


Does this mean no bleeding either? I have to "burp" mine about once a
year or about every 2000mi but it's a mountain bike where I am in
the brakes all the time.

Nope. They just sit there and work. The second year I checked the oil
level, and didn't bother after that. It's not like it evaporates or is
hygroscopic. I'll probably have another look over the summer mind.


Thanks. One rider in Germany recommended the Shimano SLX BR-M675 brakes
once my Promax brakes are up. Amazingly these Promax Decipher last and last.


Mine use DOT-4 fluid so it's a bit of a messy job.
Open reservoir, squeeze lever over and over again until no more
bubbles show and the pressure point becomes hard, top off, close,
wipe clean. That takes only a few minutes but DOT-4 can be nasty on
clothes. So maybe my next set of brakes should be Shimano.


... Was looking at the front disc over the weekend and it might be
due for replacement after some 8,000 miles. Given it's a
centerlock, that's going to be a 2 minute job!


With the six screws it's five minutes because there is usually a set
of fresh ones with Loctite already applied. Torqueing as usual via
the digital suitcase scale.

It isn't a big job at all, but relacing a wheel to a new rim is! If of
course rims wore out, which they don't.


I have used up some rims over my riding years. Back as a student when I
did 6000 miles per year I "solved" the problem of having to spoke in by
buying another used beater bike every year. After I bought my first
custom road bike I had it done at the LBS because I am not that good in
trueing a wheel.

Waiting too long can be risky and not all rims have good indicators when
they are about to go. My sister had a violent rim blow-out on a mountain
bike. Luckily it was the rear wheel. Of course, according to Sir, our
family must be a bunch of carnivores and rim eaters.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2/5/2019 9:34 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/5/2019 8:48 PM, AMuzi wrote:


[raised eyebrow] 1000 miles? every year? yikes!

I also consider rims a consumable, but due to heart-shape
format or too many eyelets pulled through. I've never worn
out a rim's brake surface.

I'm glad you said that. I was feeling inadequate because I
don't think I've ever worn out a rim's brake surface.

I've replaced rims mostly when potholes have damaged them so
badly that I can't jack the dents back out (and I've jacked
out several bad dents). Also when switching from 27" to 700c.

Is there a rule of thumb for how thin I can let a braking
surface get? I'm talking about ancient rims that have no
indicator groove.


A straightedge will give a good idea of the wear. Brake
surface starts out flat, ends up concave:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/wornrim.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 2/5/2019 10:13 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 5 Feb 2019 16:59:50 -0800, "Mark J."
wrote:

On 2/5/2019 3:27 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 05 Feb 2019 10:06:40 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-02-05 09:51, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 11:24:20 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-05 07:21, Radey Shouman wrote:

[...]


When I got home I looked at the rims. They were coated in white
frosty stuff that looked a lot like snow, but stuck much more
resolutely. Not normally much for washing bicycles, I spent a
few minutes cleaning off the frost and salt.

To be clear, the brakes are not modern equipment, but Weinmann
Vainqueur centerpulls, albeit with Kool Stop cartridge pads. I
do find them more than adequate ordinarily.

If I ever buy a new bicycle, I believe I'll favor those
fashionable disk brakes.


Try them out on a friend bike or a rental. You'll never look back.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

CRIKEY! What am I doing WRONG? I ride all year round and I don't have
problems with my rim brakes stopping any of my bicycles. That is even
true for my ancient long out of production Shimano Adamas AX brakes
and my Shimano Dura Ace AX brakes. Grant the Dura Ace AX bicycle is
kept for nicer weather but I have got caught out in the rain with it
and never had a problem. Not have i ever worn out a rim because of
brake wear. I ride thousands of miles every year too.

I just don't get how some people have such drastic problems with rims
wearing out.


Well, the rims on my 1st MTB were nearly shot after the first 1000mi of
foul weather riding. Most of the time I reached on on soggy winter trail
rides there was this goose bump eliciting sandpaper noise.

Needless to say, the next MTB had disc brakes and none of this is
happening now. Why should people put up with inferior components if
there are better ones that even reduce cost per mile over the years?


That is because you use those cheap and dirty aluminum rims. Switch to
proper chrome plated steel rims and they will last practically for
ever :-)

That's 'cause after a short while, the rider gives up entirely on
braking in the wet.

Mark J.

If you had a bicycle with a proper
coaster brake there wouldn;t be all these problems :-)



If you actually meant to write 'fixed gear' I would agree

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 2/6/2019 12:15 AM, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/6/19 12:27 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 05 Feb 2019 10:06:40 -0800, Joerg

wrote:

On 2019-02-05 09:51, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 11:24:20 AM UTC-5, Joerg
wrote:
On 2019-02-05 07:21, Radey Shouman wrote:

[...]


When I got home I looked at the rims. They were
coated in white
frosty stuff that looked a lot like snow, but stuck
much more
resolutely. Not normally much for washing bicycles, I
spent a
few minutes cleaning off the frost and salt.

To be clear, the brakes are not modern equipment, but
Weinmann
Vainqueur centerpulls, albeit with Kool Stop cartridge
pads. I
do find them more than adequate ordinarily.

If I ever buy a new bicycle, I believe I'll favor those
fashionable disk brakes.


Try them out on a friend bike or a rental. You'll never
look back.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

CRIKEY! What am I doing WRONG? I ride all year round and
I don't have
problems with my rim brakes stopping any of my bicycles.
That is even
true for my ancient long out of production Shimano
Adamas AX brakes
and my Shimano Dura Ace AX brakes. Grant the Dura Ace AX
bicycle is
kept for nicer weather but I have got caught out in the
rain with it
and never had a problem. Not have i ever worn out a rim
because of
brake wear. I ride thousands of miles every year too.

I just don't get how some people have such drastic
problems with rims
wearing out.


Well, the rims on my 1st MTB were nearly shot after the
first 1000mi of
foul weather riding. Most of the time I reached on on
soggy winter trail
rides there was this goose bump eliciting sandpaper noise.

Needless to say, the next MTB had disc brakes and none of
this is
happening now. Why should people put up with inferior
components if
there are better ones that even reduce cost per mile over
the years?


That is because you use those cheap and dirty aluminum
rims. Switch to
proper chrome plated steel rims and they will last
practically for
ever :-)

There you go, aluminum rims, another example of churning
pushed on us by the bicycle industry, an inferior product
that doesn't solve any problems at all at even more expense
to the beleaguered cyclist.



Our grandfathers had steel-clad wooden rims and mostly died
of not-bicycle events.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971