Bad Bike Shop Manners??

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 06:28:53 -0800, Qui si parla
Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com wrote:

No. It does seem that most bike shops are filled with either dolts or
surly putzes that are there to prove something...some sort of a power trip
about the 'knowledgeable vs the not' or something. Even in Boulder we hear
stories about some shops, and why they'll never go in 'there' again. I
think great bike shops or stores, kinda by definition, don't do well in
'talking', I think sometimes from pressure to sell, sell, sell.

Well, the good ones do both well, but people with that combination
of skills can make more money almost anywhere else.

These days the quality of bike shop staff, like coffeehouse staff, may be
explained by the "bad barista index":

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=5073210

Matt O.

In article .com,
"NYC XYZ" wrote:

WTF?!

Are my expectations out of order?

In this instance, a meta-analysis based on the dimensions of a) message size
and b) explicitly naming the LBS's and owners is sufficient to approximate
an answer: yes.

Dial your time machine to 1979*, travel back to score a bucket of 'luudes.
return, take some and revisit the shops in question. Theory predicts a more
satisfactory outcome.

..max
*i lost my TGIF soundtrack album, if you could bring me a copy i'd be
grateful

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 08:35:28 -0700, Steve Katona
wrote:



For anyone who can manage the travel, if required, there is no one like
Kelvin Clark of Angletech in Woodland Park, CO
http://www.angletechcycles.com/index.html
I have purchased 2 bents from him. I have spent many hours--more than
12--at his shop riding and talking, dozens of phone conversations and
dozens of emails. Satisfaction guaranteed. Highest quality. No churning.
Always alternative suggestions for highest end components when
suggested. I could go on and on but 'nuff said.' And I live 400 miles
from him.

If you really like Kevin, you will think twice about recommending
NYC??? to him.

This guy shows up every few months, causes a commotion, does some
trolling, and gone again. I think last time it was boats swamping, and
mistreatment. As others have said, when bad things constantly happen
to one person, you have to consider the person.


Life is Good!
Jeff

NYC XYZ wrote:
Whatever happened to the friendly neighborhood bike dealer?

Actually, I've never known one myself, but somehow I get the feeling
that these guys are at least supposed to care where you spend your
money.

I contacted Peter Stull, "The Bicycleman," and though I found him
friendly at first, after a long ten or thirteen-minute telephone
conversation he hangs up on me 'cause a customer suddenly walked in the
door. He never answered 90% of my questions -- very basic ones like
"how much does it cost?" -- though it was an interesting enough
conversation otherwise where he told me about his bike races, his
customer from Australia, the guy who works for him that specializes in
recumbents....

Before he excused himself with the near-equivalent of French Leave, I
asked him whether I might wrap things up via e-mail. I could almost
see him shrug casually -- "sure," he said.

Three weeks now and no response.

So I get in touch with another dealer, Northeast Recumbents. E-mailed,
phoned, left messages...nothing. Finally got through to him last
weekend, set up a look-see tomorrow. But there's rain in the forecast,
and now this dealer is incommunicado.

WTF?!

Are my expectations out of order?

The LBS on the next block from me where I got my Trek 1000c, the Bike
Stop in Astoria, was another crazy place. The owner himself insisted
on selling me the display model. It was in good condition, far as I
can tell (though by the time I'd noticed some marks and scratches, a
week had gone by and I couldn't be totally sure they weren't caused by
me somehow), but apparently all bike shops insist you pay "new" prices
for "good as new" bikes.

Small matter that, sure enough -- but then the headset wasn't quite
right. Turned out to be defective. But Gus, the owner, tried to
convince me that its being loose was nothing to worry about! And
indeed, I could ride the bike fine...but it just didn't feel right that
I had a moving part where things are tight on other bikes.

Maybe it's your city, the folks at Bayview Cycle, here in Toronto, seem
to be nice enough, and I didn't buy my bike there (long story)... I
have bought a couple of other things there... More expensive then
buying accessories at Mountain Equipment Co-op downtown, but then they
are only a 20 minute ride away, where as M.E.C. is a 1 hour
bus/subway/streetcar away....

I may take my bike to Bayview in the spring, the BB needs to be cleaned
and lubed, and they say they will do it as part of a tuneup for $40.

I think the real issue, is to find an LBS that is close enough to where
you live, that you can and do go there on a regular basis, even if it's
just to see what's new. If your regular enough that the guy working
there, sees you come in, and calls you by name, then you are a regular,
and regulars always get better service, then walk in customers, it's the
way things are....

W

Jeff Starr wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 08:35:28 -0700, Steve Katona
wrote:


For anyone who can manage the travel, if required, there is no one like
Kelvin Clark of Angletech in Woodland Park, CO
http://www.angletechcycles.com/index.html
I have purchased 2 bents from him. I have spent many hours--more than
12--at his shop riding and talking, dozens of phone conversations and
dozens of emails. Satisfaction guaranteed. Highest quality. No churning.
Always alternative suggestions for highest end components when
suggested. I could go on and on but 'nuff said.' And I live 400 miles
from him.

If you really like Kevin, you will think twice about recommending
NYC??? to him.

This guy shows up every few months, causes a commotion, does some
trolling, and gone again. I think last time it was boats swamping, and
mistreatment. As others have said, when bad things constantly happen
to one person, you have to consider the person.


Life is Good!
Jeff
I doubted NYC would travel to Woodland Park but I just wanted to get
this good word out on Angletech. Here in Albuquerque we have both kinds
of bike shop employees--the pierced, tattooed (btw, I have 36 and both
ears but no eye brows pierced) bleached in high heeled doc martins with
attitude and the shop guy or girl who will deal with you without
judgemental b.s. and a desire to help. Some folks don't realize that
help without a purchase should be requested in small doses and
graciously received. When a potential purchase amounts to = than $2000
the customer does have a right to a little more time than what it takes
to show a few pairs of shoes.
Will you still need me, will you still feed me, when I'm 64?
Steve

The converstion in a retail place should in ALL cases be ended by the
'customer', not the employee. A bike shop is supposed to be the expert,
the person that listens and then, perhaps, sells. Sometimes it IS a
chat room, and that's how you grow your biz. If a person is comfy just
talking, then he will be comfy later giving you money. Pretty simple.
NOTHING is so important in a toy store, that the employee shuts a
person down, in order to talk to another, even if they have a $20 bill
stuck in their nose, waiting to buy. The surly attitude displayed by
some in this thread is WHY many bike shops go under. They commit
suicide, they don't go outta biz.

Would be nice if that could always be the case, but... there are times when
a conversation goes from "customer" mode to "chat" and, realistically, the
customer whose needs haven't been served take precedence over someone in
"chat" mode. It really shouldn't be that big a deal either; it's not that
difficult to gracefully disconnect yourself from such a conversation by
letting the person know that you'd like to hear more about it later, but
right now you've got to take care of another customer. I don't think that's
rude, and I'll bet the majority of people (who you might have to cut a bit
short) would respect that, since they've been in the shoes of the person who
has to wait... and wait... and wait... while someone is having a friendly
conversation that appears to have little to do with business.

In all seriousness, there are very few things that can be resolved over the
phone better in a 15-minute conversation than 5. In most cases, anything
that detailed needs to be dealt with in-person, in the store.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" wrote in
message oups.com...

Rich wrote:
NYC XYZ wrote:

Whatever happened to the friendly neighborhood bike dealer?

Maybe he went out of business talking to people that weren't buying
stuff.


I contacted Peter Stull, "The Bicycleman," and though I found him
friendly at first, after a long ten or thirteen-minute telephone
conversation he hangs up on me 'cause a customer suddenly walked in the
door.

How much of his time did you expect? He's in business, and his first
priority should be the people that made the effort to get to his store.
He sounds friendly enough to me.

The converstion in a retail place should in ALL cases be ended by the
'customer', not the employee. A bike shop is supposed to be the expert,
the person that listens and then, perhaps, sells. Sometimes it IS a
chat room, and that's how you grow your biz. If a person is comfy just
talking, then he will be comfy later giving you money. Pretty simple.
NOTHING is so important in a toy store, that the employee shuts a
person down, in order to talk to another, even if they have a $20 bill
stuck in their nose, waiting to buy. The surly attitude displayed by
some in this thread is WHY many bike shops go under. They commit
suicide, they don't go outta biz.


So I get in touch with another dealer, Northeast Recumbents. E-mailed,
phoned, left messages...nothing. Finally got through to him last
weekend, set up a look-see tomorrow. But there's rain in the forecast,
and now this dealer is incommunicado.

WTF?!

They're running a business, not a chat room.

Are my expectations out of order?

I think so.

Rich

"NYC XYZ" wrote in message
oups.com...

Whatever happened to the friendly neighborhood bike dealer?

Actually, I've never known one myself, but somehow I get the feeling
that these guys are at least supposed to care where you spend your
money.

I contacted Peter Stull, "The Bicycleman," and though I found him
friendly at first, after a long ten or thirteen-minute telephone
conversation he hangs up on me 'cause a customer suddenly walked in the
door. He never answered 90% of my questions -- very basic ones like
"how much does it cost?" -- though it was an interesting enough
conversation otherwise where he told me about his bike races, his
customer from Australia, the guy who works for him that specializes in
recumbents....

Before he excused himself with the near-equivalent of French Leave, I
asked him whether I might wrap things up via e-mail. I could almost
see him shrug casually -- "sure," he said.

Three weeks now and no response.

So I get in touch with another dealer, Northeast Recumbents. E-mailed,
phoned, left messages...nothing. Finally got through to him last
weekend, set up a look-see tomorrow. But there's rain in the forecast,
and now this dealer is incommunicado.

WTF?!

Are my expectations out of order?

The LBS on the next block from me where I got my Trek 1000c, the Bike
Stop in Astoria, was another crazy place. The owner himself insisted
on selling me the display model. It was in good condition, far as I
can tell (though by the time I'd noticed some marks and scratches, a
week had gone by and I couldn't be totally sure they weren't caused by
me somehow), but apparently all bike shops insist you pay "new" prices
for "good as new" bikes.

Small matter that, sure enough -- but then the headset wasn't quite
right. Turned out to be defective. But Gus, the owner, tried to
convince me that its being loose was nothing to worry about! And
indeed, I could ride the bike fine...but it just didn't feel right that
I had a moving part where things are tight on other bikes.

Or another LBS, in Manhattan, the Pedal Pushers...Evan over there is a
nutcase. He's very charming and talkative like Peter Stull, but he's
got a weird switch which somehow gets flipped and he'll go schizo on
you with his passive-agressive act. One day I came in for a flat fix.
While he was ringing up the sale, I noticed that my tire cap was gone
and asked him where it was. He told me he put it outside the shop --
??? I asked him what he meant. He nodded incredulously at me and
repeated that he left my tire cap outside. Not only was it a bizzare
enough thing if true, but doubly strange was the fact that it wasn't
true, he never touched my bike until I brought it in. So I asked him
how could that be...he responded that, duh, how? I used my hands, you
know, hands, and unscrewed it and gently placed it on the sidewalk. So
I'm just really mystified at what's going on -- him swiping my card and
all all this time -- and I ask him why would he do that.

He goes, well, where do you put your TV in your place? I'm like, what?
Where do you put your TV, he repeated. I asked him why. He said that
just as I have my reasons for placing things in my apartment, so he has
his reasons for organizing his shop the way he does (actually, it's
owned by a sour old fart, Roger, who's absent half the time -- another
neurotic cat).

Now I ask you all; does that sound crazy or what?

What's even more bizzare is that there was a line of customers behind
me, every one non-plussed by the brief conversation.

Tell me, is there some bike shop etiquette I didn't observe? Is there
some kind of secret bike shop salute or handshake I should have
employed? Did I bother them somehow by smiling?

Honestly, I don't get it. Now I'll have to contact the fella over in
State College, PA, for the Velotechnik SMGTe. I am not awarding ~$3K
(maybe even more, if I don't contain my newfound lust of Rohloff
gearboxes and other exotica) to folks who don't care enough for it to
return a goddamned phone call or e-mail!



Thirteen minute conversation? The longest I've ever talked to a bike shop
on the phone was a minute. A bike shop owner is not a bartender.

"Do you have this in stock? OK, good."
"How much?"
"What time you open until?"
"Thanks. See ya."

I buy lot of stuff online and do all my own work.

"NYC XYZ" writes:

Whatever happened to the friendly neighborhood bike dealer?

Actually, I've never known one myself, but somehow I get the feeling
that these guys are at least supposed to care where you spend your
money.

Once in a while I get irritated with my favorite bike shop. So
then I go to the one across the street. Or the one down the
street half a mile. Or the one down the street a couple of miles
the other way. Or the one down the street a couple of miles
past that one.

Sounds like you just need to find a shop you're comfortable with.
--
Ben Pfaff
email:
web: http://benpfaff.org

NYC XYZ wrote:
Whatever happened to the friendly neighborhood bike dealer?

I just came from there -- it's Bicycle Station on Vanderbilt
Ave. in Brooklyn. The owner, Mike, is friendly, knowledgeable
and refreshingly competent. Prices are even very reasonable.

(I'm not related, just a satisfied customer.)

Here's the info in Google local:
http://bicyclestation.notlong.com

--
Steven O'Neill
Brooklyn, NY

"NYC XYZ" wrote in message
oups.com...

I contacted Peter Stull, "The Bicycleman," and though I found him
friendly at first, after a long ten or thirteen-minute telephone
conversation he hangs up on me 'cause a customer suddenly walked in the
door.

Well, my feeling is, I'd always deal with a customer in the shop before I
dealt with one on the phone. The person in the shop has made the effort to
at least come in, and is more likely to buy.

Also, I confess, I am not much of a phone person. I want to see and handle
the merchandise. Also, I appreciate the f2f interaction with the people in
the shop. Maybe you're more of a phone/email type?

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
Sponsor me for the Big Climb! See: www.active.com/donate/cpetersky06
See the books I've set free at:
http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky