Open letter to Carl Fogel

On 22 May 2006 20:11:44 -0700, "Ozark Bicycle"
wrote:


wrote:
On 22 May 2006 19:35:38 -0700, "Ozark Bicycle"
wrote:


wrote:
On 22 May 2006 16:26:59 -0700, wrote:


Ozark Bicycle wrote:
Dear Carl,

It is apparent from reading RBT today that you have breached certain
confidences contained in my private reply to your sole private email to
me.

So, here's the deal: the next time I see a smarmy insult from you,
directed toward *anyone*, I will post a link to the underhanded, back
stabbing, gossipy email you sent to me. This will not only embarrass
you, but also "RA" (as Kubrick might put it ;- ).

You decide.

Cheers,
Ozark

While I'm not privy to exactly what Carl did to **** you off, it's just
as bad that you chose to berate him publicly without first bringing up
with him directly, first.

Your post above is just as egregious as anything he may have done to
you. Sounds like you two need to share apologies and get over
yourselves.

Fred

Dear Fred,

I'm baffled, since I haven't mentioned the email that I sent Oz, which
was about a completely unrelated thread.

He thanked me for warning him about a potential problem, but now he
apparently thinks that I've mentioned the matter on the newsgroup,
which I haven't.


No, Carl, not "on the newsgroup", but behind the scenes, via private
email, in what I now understand may be your SOP.


It's odd to receive blackmail threats in public,

"Blackmail"? Hardly. Just a poblic warning shot across the bow of your
sleazy, backhanded methods. I prefer to operate out in the open, not in
the shadows.



but Oz may just be so
confused that he doesn't know what he's doing.

Trust me, I know exactly what I'm doing: exposing a behind-the-scenes
sleazebag.



If he wants to publish
my email and his reply, I can't complain.


I am not ashamed of my reply, Carl, it was made in earnest, thinking
your email was a genuine attempt to be helpful, not the behind the
scenes character assassination it really was. Are you issusing me an
invitation to post a link to the email?

But I hope that he either explains what's going on enough for me to
figure out why he's upset, or else figures out that he's grossly
mistaken.

In any case, I hope that he considers the two other people involved,
just as I did.


The "other two people involved" are the only factors that have stayed
my hand to this point.


If nothing else, we're entertaining everyone.


Are you "entertained", Carl?

Dear Oz,

You wrote:

"It is apparent from reading RBT today that you have breached certain
confidences contained in my private reply to your sole private email
to me."

(Then you issued a bizarre public blackmail threat.)

What did you read on RBT today--from anyone--that made it "apparent"
that I breached whatever "confidences" you imagine were contained in
your private reply?

Here's your private reply in full, barring a name. You thanked me for
taking the trouble to warn you about a problem that another bicycle
dealer had revealed to me. I didn't like doing it, but I'd have felt
bad if I'd said nothing and let you go through the same miserable
experience:

Hi Carl,

It was always obvious that X "marched to his own drummer", but I
just naively assumed it was his way of having fun. Now, it is apparent
something very different is afoot. How sad. Seriously disturbed people
have miserable lives and more often than not, inflict that misery on
those around them.

Thanks for the head's up.

Richard

What on earth did you feel you were confiding in me when you thanked
me for giving you a private warning about a wretched problem?

And where did you see your "confidences" being "breached" today on
RBT?

Incidentally, a public blackmail letter is amusing, but not terribly
effective.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel


Dear Carl,

Since you continue to try to BS your way through this, here is a link
to the email you sent to me:

http://tinyurl.com/edfxs

They say a liitle sunlight eliminates maggots, what do you think?

Cheers,
Oz

Dear Oz,

The link appears to be as incoherent as your posts.

It asks for the yahoo id and password to ozarkbicycleservice.com.

Here's the email that you're apparently incompetent to post, with
names removed:

Dear Oz,

Sorry to bother you off-line, but I hope that you'll understand after
you read what [bike dealer] wrote to me last month about X, who
mysteriously wrote me out of a clear blue sky about being ripped off
by [bike dealer].

If you're happy dealing with X, then ignore me as well-meaning
busybody and accept my apologies. If the following messages help you
avoid problems, then everyone's happy.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

-------------- Forwarded Message: --------------
From: [bike dealer]
To:
Subject: mystifying email from datakoll
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 16:37:35 +0000
At 5:12 AM +0000 4/20/06, wrote:
Dear [bike dealer],

Shortly after I began infesting RBT again,

Welcome back! We've missed you!

X sent me this mystifying email:

From: X@somewhere
To: "
Subject: Water tires experiment/need contributions

Cheers, Carl Fogel

[bike dealer] ripped me off!

[pseudonym]

We have a long history with X. I'm afraid he is seriously
mentally ill. He has placed lots of small orders with us over the
years, and he always complains that mysterious people have stolen
parts of the contents from his mailbox or whatever. When we used to
take phone orders he would bend our ears unendingly about this sort
of thing, and he sends deliberately incomprehensible emails (he
signs them "[pseudonym]" or some variation of that) I
have taken to ignoring his emails, it's a no-win situation.

All the best,

[bike dealer]

My post was just a silly link to a farm equipment page selling
adaptors to fill tractor tires with water--absolutely nothing to do
with [bike dealer], as far as I can see.

X may just be replying to the voices in his head, or perhaps
trying to make some unfathomable joke and signing himself as "[pseudonym]."

I plan to ignore X, but I thought that you might want to know, in
case he has some unhappy mail-order dispute with [bike dealer]. I
hope that it makes no more sense to you than it does to me.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

wrote:
On 22 May 2006 20:11:44 -0700, "Ozark Bicycle"
wrote:


wrote:
On 22 May 2006 19:35:38 -0700, "Ozark Bicycle"
wrote:


wrote:
On 22 May 2006 16:26:59 -0700, wrote:


Ozark Bicycle wrote:
Dear Carl,

It is apparent from reading RBT today that you have breached certain
confidences contained in my private reply to your sole private email to
me.

So, here's the deal: the next time I see a smarmy insult from you,
directed toward *anyone*, I will post a link to the underhanded, back
stabbing, gossipy email you sent to me. This will not only embarrass
you, but also "RA" (as Kubrick might put it ;- ).

You decide.

Cheers,
Ozark

While I'm not privy to exactly what Carl did to **** you off, it's just
as bad that you chose to berate him publicly without first bringing up
with him directly, first.

Your post above is just as egregious as anything he may have done to
you. Sounds like you two need to share apologies and get over
yourselves.

Fred

Dear Fred,

I'm baffled, since I haven't mentioned the email that I sent Oz, which
was about a completely unrelated thread.

He thanked me for warning him about a potential problem, but now he
apparently thinks that I've mentioned the matter on the newsgroup,
which I haven't.


No, Carl, not "on the newsgroup", but behind the scenes, via private
email, in what I now understand may be your SOP.


It's odd to receive blackmail threats in public,

"Blackmail"? Hardly. Just a poblic warning shot across the bow of your
sleazy, backhanded methods. I prefer to operate out in the open, not in
the shadows.



but Oz may just be so
confused that he doesn't know what he's doing.

Trust me, I know exactly what I'm doing: exposing a behind-the-scenes
sleazebag.



If he wants to publish
my email and his reply, I can't complain.


I am not ashamed of my reply, Carl, it was made in earnest, thinking
your email was a genuine attempt to be helpful, not the behind the
scenes character assassination it really was. Are you issusing me an
invitation to post a link to the email?

But I hope that he either explains what's going on enough for me to
figure out why he's upset, or else figures out that he's grossly
mistaken.

In any case, I hope that he considers the two other people involved,
just as I did.


The "other two people involved" are the only factors that have stayed
my hand to this point.


If nothing else, we're entertaining everyone.


Are you "entertained", Carl?

Dear Oz,

You wrote:

"It is apparent from reading RBT today that you have breached certain
confidences contained in my private reply to your sole private email
to me."

(Then you issued a bizarre public blackmail threat.)

What did you read on RBT today--from anyone--that made it "apparent"
that I breached whatever "confidences" you imagine were contained in
your private reply?

Here's your private reply in full, barring a name. You thanked me for
taking the trouble to warn you about a problem that another bicycle
dealer had revealed to me. I didn't like doing it, but I'd have felt
bad if I'd said nothing and let you go through the same miserable
experience:

Hi Carl,

It was always obvious that X "marched to his own drummer", but I
just naively assumed it was his way of having fun. Now, it is apparent
something very different is afoot. How sad. Seriously disturbed people
have miserable lives and more often than not, inflict that misery on
those around them.

Thanks for the head's up.

Richard

What on earth did you feel you were confiding in me when you thanked
me for giving you a private warning about a wretched problem?

And where did you see your "confidences" being "breached" today on
RBT?

Incidentally, a public blackmail letter is amusing, but not terribly
effective.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel


Dear Carl,

Since you continue to try to BS your way through this, here is a link
to the email you sent to me:

http://tinyurl.com/edfxs

They say a liitle sunlight eliminates maggots, what do you think?

Cheers,
Oz

Dear Oz,

The link appears to be as incoherent as your posts.


Try this, Carl:

http://ozarkbicycleservice.com/fogelemail.txt

Is that better, sleazeball?

Ozark,

You rock. You seem so reasonable and wise.

JT

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wrote in message
...

Dear Oz,

You wrote:

"It is apparent from reading RBT today that you have breached certain
confidences contained in my private reply to your sole private email
to me."

(Then you issued a bizarre public blackmail threat.)

What did you read on RBT today--from anyone--that made it "apparent"
that I breached whatever "confidences" you imagine were contained in
your private reply?

Here's your private reply in full, barring a name.

Carl, don't worry.

Copyright law says that you have the full and complete control of
re-publication of anything you write. This includes letters and email.

While the recipient has ownership of the copy he or she receives,
intellectual property rights remain vested in you; and should you wish to
counter threats of blackmail (nomatter how deranged), if full disclosure
will reveal that you are blameless while a party who has in the recent past
relentlessly attacked your positions (and person) is not, your course is not
only clear, but honourable.

wrote in message
...


Are you abandoning your original public blackmail threat in favor of
incoherence?


Hey Carl, the incoherence comes as a free extra, ok?

On Tue, 23 May 2006 02:52:01 -0400, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:

Ozark,

You rock. You seem so reasonable and wise.

JT

You know what is sad, when they first made reference of someone with
mental problems, I thought they meant you.

There are no winners in this mess. I do think that Carl owes Sheldon
an apology, for forwarding a private email, to a third party.

I'm reading this on RBT, where none of this nonsense belongs. I guess,
in reality, it doesn't belong anywhere.

Jeff

Jeff Starr wrote:

There are no winners in this mess. I do think that Carl owes Sheldon
an apology, for forwarding a private email, to a third party.

Huh? Whazzat?

I don't have any beef with Carl that I know of. I always look forward
to his postings.

Sheldon "Puzzled" Brown
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| The art of public life consists to a great extent of |
| knowing exactly where to stop and going a bit further. |
| --Al Franken |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

On Tue, 23 May 2006 14:07:59 GMT, Jeff Starr
wrote:

[about me -- JFT] when they
first made reference of
someone with mental problems
I thought they meant you.

For some reason I have this visceral feeling of plearure upon reading
your comment.

I know mental illness is no joke, but having some guy, or even better,
some chump *think* I have mental problems (problems that manifest
themselves in ways he can't understand or deal with) sort of pleases
me.

I do think that Carl owes Sheldon
an apology, for forwarding a
private email, to a third party.

From my reading of the emails I think you're way off base there. But
what do I know? I don't think normally.

JT


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Visit http://www.jt10000.com
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http://www.stevepavlina.com/articles...orum-usage.htm

wrote:
that's the Iraqi me on the front page of the NYT may 22 see the chair?
two good friends at joshua tree in MSR 2006
and and ..
butbutbut is ozark actually carl fogrill? or is...

And you sat on this information for TWO DAYS before telling us?!?!?
Fer crap's sake, Gene, we can't read your mind.

dkl