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Trumped Up Charges. When is a "Race" a "Race" and what needs a permit?
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Trumped Up Charges. When is a "Race" a "Race" and what needs a permit?
On 11 Jul 2006 06:19:03 -0700, "bill" wrote:
http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=e5a...1-1d80108e6f39 What a disgusting dogpile of officious jerks. Who do these jerks think they are. "That which is not permitted is forbidden." Ron |
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Trumped Up Charges. When is a "Race" a "Race" and what needs a permit?
bill wrote: http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=e5a...1-1d80108e6f39 ------------------------------------------- According to the article: Police have shut down the Pequot Cyclists weekly time trial race in the Wheeler Road area after receiving a complaint from a driver and discovering the club never obtained the required permit for the event....Brian Sheffer, the club member in charge of the time trials, said the club was not aware it needed a permit. "We hold rides all over the area in a bunch of towns, and this is the first time this has happened," he said. ------------------------------------------ I'm not a lawyer, but it sure seems to me that they should not need a permit! I'm assuming that in Connecticut (as in all other states AFAIK) cyclists have a right to use the road, and I'm assuming that there is no specific state law banning ... what? Riding fast? Assuming the "racers" are not exceeding the speed limit, they are doing nothing that is not legally permissible. As an analogy, if 15 members of the local Studebaker club decided to meet at a drive-in in Pequot and drive their Studebakers to Hartford, would they need a permit? No - if they don't ask to have the traffic restricted, then from the standpoint of the law, they are just legal vehicles traveling on the roads. It doesn't matter if the vehicles are a bit unusual, and it doesn't matter if the club members think of it as a club event. By law, it's just people traveling. IIRC, time trials were the dominant (perhaps only) form of racing for decades in England, specifically because mass-start races were prohibited. But there's no practical way to ban time trialing. You can't ticket a lone bicyclist just for riding "fast" - that is, 25 mph. You can't ticket two bicyclists separated by a minute for riding "fast." So you can't outlaw a time trial. At least, that's how it seems to me. I'm curious about others' opinions, and about how this will shake out. - Frank Krygowski |
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Trumped Up Charges. When is a "Race" a "Race" and what needs a permit?
On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:06:35 GMT, Kristian M Zoerhoff
wrote: It depends. If the ride is an officially sanctioned event (as it would seem to be), CT state law may have specific regulations on it. IL state law certainly does (625 ILCS 5/11-1514 for the morbidly curious). In Maryland it is enough that an event effects the safe and normal activities on a state road. You need a permit, I think through the SHA. If they decide that you need State Police, you may end up out of business before you start. A time trial might manage the critical mass tactic of no organizer, no responsible person, but I wouldn't want to be the guy with the stop watches at the start/finish. Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels... |
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Trumped Up Charges. When is a "Race" a "Race" and what needs a permit?
Kristian M Zoerhoff wrote: In article . com, says... I'm not a lawyer, but it sure seems to me that they should not need a permit! I'm assuming that in Connecticut (as in all other states AFAIK) cyclists have a right to use the road, and I'm assuming that there is no specific state law banning ... what? Riding fast? Assuming the "racers" are not exceeding the speed limit, they are doing nothing that is not legally permissible. It depends. If the ride is an officially sanctioned event (as it would seem to be), CT state law may have specific regulations on it. IL state law certainly does (625 ILCS 5/11-1514 for the morbidly curious). Someone with better knowledge of the CT vehicle code should probably jump in -- __o Kristian Zoerhoff _'\(,_ When I lived in New Haven, CT our club sponsored weekly USCF sanctioned time trials on an open road course. This went on for years and there was never a problem. There wwere also weekly group rides that sometimes had over 100 riders and as they were "unofficial races" they caused much more traffic disruption than the TT's. But no one sponsored them so it really was nothing more than a large group of individual cyclists. |
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Trumped Up Charges. When is a "Race" a "Race" and what needs a permit?
Cyclists are safe and normal users of the road. And cars disrupt my
safe and normal bicycling all the time. Sounds arbitrary and similar to the NYC and LA Critical Mass crackdowns, as well as the Alameda County (California) permit process. In other words it is possibly illegal to require a permit, but requires a court action to overturn any police chief decision. You may have better luck with a sit-down meeting with the police to figure out how they would like you to proceed safely and try and work together. That approach has worked on occasion with the Saturday morning ride in Palos Verdes, CA. Curtis L. Russell wrote: On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:06:35 GMT, Kristian M Zoerhoff wrote: It depends. If the ride is an officially sanctioned event (as it would seem to be), CT state law may have specific regulations on it. IL state law certainly does (625 ILCS 5/11-1514 for the morbidly curious). In Maryland it is enough that an event effects the safe and normal activities on a state road. You need a permit, I think through the SHA. If they decide that you need State Police, you may end up out of business before you start. A time trial might manage the critical mass tactic of no organizer, no responsible person, but I wouldn't want to be the guy with the stop watches at the start/finish. Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels... |
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Trumped Up Charges. When is a "Race" a "Race" and what needs a permit?
As an analogy, if 15 members of the local Studebaker club decided to meet at a drive-in in Pequot and drive their Studebakers to Hartford, would they need a permit? No - if they don't ask to have the traffic restricted, then from the standpoint of the law, they are just legal vehicles traveling on the roads. It doesn't matter if the vehicles are a bit unusual, and it doesn't matter if the club members think of it as a club event. By law, it's just people traveling. If the cyclists decide to ride as fast as they can at 30 second intervals, then no, it isn't necessarily a race. But they are then obligated to obey all relevant traffic laws. The article mentions 4 right turns, but doesn't tell us whether there are stop signs or lights. If there aren't, then it seems to me that they can do this ride at top speed without breaking any laws, and the police would have no reason to interfere. But if there are lights or stop signs, then the police would be justified in stepping in - presumably the riders are not coming to a full stop before making their turns. (I'll bet any amount they are not.) The analogy of the Studebakers falls apart if they decide to see who can get to Hartford fastest, and then don't obey the laws. Mort |
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Trumped Up Charges. When is a "Race" a "Race" and what needs a permit?
On 11 Jul 2006 17:30:52 -0700, "mort" wrote:
As an analogy, if 15 members of the local Studebaker club decided to meet at a drive-in in Pequot and drive their Studebakers to Hartford, would they need a permit? No - if they don't ask to have the traffic restricted, then from the standpoint of the law, they are just legal vehicles traveling on the roads. It doesn't matter if the vehicles are a bit unusual, and it doesn't matter if the club members think of it as a club event. By law, it's just people traveling. If the cyclists decide to ride as fast as they can at 30 second intervals, then no, it isn't necessarily a race. But they are then obligated to obey all relevant traffic laws. The article mentions 4 right turns, but doesn't tell us whether there are stop signs or lights. If there aren't, then it seems to me that they can do this ride at top speed without breaking any laws, and the police would have no reason to interfere. But if there are lights or stop signs, then the police would be justified in stepping in - presumably the riders are not coming to a full stop before making their turns. (I'll bet any amount they are not.) The analogy of the Studebakers falls apart if they decide to see who can get to Hartford fastest, and then don't obey the laws. Or if the Barney Fife Brigade declares that what is actually taking place is a parade without a permit. "For the law to be respected the law must be respectable." Frederic Bastiat Ron |
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Trumped Up Charges. When is a "Race" a "Race" and what needs a permit?
If the cyclists decide to ride as fast as they can at 30 second
intervals, then no, it isn't necessarily a race. But they are then obligated to obey all relevant traffic laws. The article mentions 4 right turns, but doesn't tell us whether there are stop signs or lights. If there aren't, then it seems to me that they can do this ride at top speed without breaking any laws, and the police would have no reason to interfere. But if there are lights or stop signs, then the police would be justified in stepping in - presumably the riders are not coming to a full stop before making their turns. (I'll bet any amount they are not.) The analogy of the Studebakers falls apart if they decide to see who can get to Hartford fastest, and then don't obey the laws. Or if the Barney Fife Brigade declares that what is actually taking place is a parade without a permit. At least in Alameda Country, California, one of the prerequisites for something to be termed a "parade" is that traffic laws must be suspended. Chris Neary "We will teach our twisted speech to the young believers" -- The Clash |
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