14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...

On Tue, 09 May 2017 13:49:46 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-05-08 19:16, wrote:
On Mon, 08 May 2017 14:45:24 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 5/8/2017 2:37 PM, Duane wrote:
On 08/05/2017 3:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/8/2017 1:33 PM, wrote:
On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 9:06:57 AM UTC-5,
wrote:



It's no surprise that not only have they survived but
they still work
almost as well as new.


The problem is even when new, the old stuff did not work
nearly as
well as any of the new stuff today. Kind of like a fool
saying the
drum brakes and carburetor on his 65 Pontiac was better
than the new
fancy dandy computer cars today.


Agreed, dependable/repairable/cheap is not the same as
best performance.
People have personal preferences based on various
not-shared criteria.

That said, after the Chinese run their high altitude EMP
device, my
no-electronics cars will run and yours won't.


You have a crank on the front of that model A Andrew?
Unless you mean your bike and then I'm all in with that idea.

12V electrical system without semiconductors, EPROMS or ICs.

p.s. Model T had a crank (at first anyway through 1919),
model A are electric start. I own neither.

No electronics on my bikes either.
The crank came as standard equipment right up to about 1948 in north
america and well into the 60s in britain. (Anflias, Prefects,) I know
a lot of the mid 60's BMC stuff still had cranks in the boot - the MG
right up untill the end of the MGA.


I had a Citroen 2CV and it came standard with a crank. Which I used a
lot because as a student I couldn't bring myself to spend the equivalent
of half a dozen crates of beer on a 6V battery. This tupe of car:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%...0288067%29.jpg

AFAIK they delivered them with crank until production ended around 1980.

No electronic components whatsoever, not even a diode, so it was
EMP-proof. One could fix just about anything with a minimum amount of tools.
My '49 beetle didn't come with a crank, but when a new 6 volt battery
was worth a month's pay, it didn't take me long to graft a crank nut
from a "landy" to the VW crank bolt, punch a hole in the rear sheet
metal., and bolt a "crank guide" to the rear bumper to make it
crankable!!! Pop the engine cover, slap the distributor back to full
retard, pull the crank, slap the didtrubutor to full advance, pull the
crank, slam the engine cover and GO. Forget to slap the distributor
to retard and it would attempt to tear your hand off at the wrist.

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 3:03:22 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-09 11:52, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 11:01:57 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-09 06:23, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 1:06:01 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 8 May 2017 19:27:20 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:10:59 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Mon, 08 May 2017 11:52:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-05-08 10:55, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

[...]

At some point in time either you or a shop did
something that knackered your top nut on your 600EX
headset.


I am not the only one who has that problem. Except the
others eventually didn't have the bikes anymore, which
"fixed" it for them. I keep technical things for a long
time.

Anyhow, the hose clamp fixes it for me. When I get around
to it I'll put in a new non-600 headset.

I wonder if someone over tightened Joerg's 600EX headset top
nut and stripped it? Or if he has the right top nut on it?
ANyhow, lots of them were sold and lots of them were used
without Joerg's problem showing up. Joerg seems to think that
he's the ONLY ONE who rides a road bike on trails.

Cheers

Actually I have had the same problem that Joerg has. Adjust
and tighten the steering bearings and in a few days the
bearings would be loose.

A little investigation showed that the top nut instead of
bottoming out on the upper bearing race and locking it, it was
bottoming out on a very slightly too long steerer tube. I added
a washer, perhaps 3/32" thick so the top nut actually
tightened against the bearing race and have had no more
problems in the last couple of years :-)

-- Cheers,

John B.

I'll bet that this is what Joerg's problem is. It's almost
impossible to tell a steering tube that's fractionally too long.
Like yours it will appear to tighten up because it will bend just
enough to appear to be tight. Then the extra pressure will cause
it to loosen up.

Got that Joerg? Try a small washer and see if that doesn't solve
your problem.


I took it apart to make sure there wasn't any other gremlin causing
this and everything was alright. The lock nut does push down as
it's supposed to do but that just isn't good enough for rides that
include dirt paths or dirt roads. Which is almost inevitable where
I live.

As I wrote I was not the only one. Back in the 80's many of the
more serious riders had Shimano 600 or 600EX. I lived in the
Netherlands but close to Germany and Belgium. The riders who only
did fitness rounds in Zuid Limburg (Dutch side) didn't have
problems with the headset. Belgians and riders like me who ventured
out into Belgium had them come loose a lot. Regardless of whether
they had Gazelle, Merckx or other frames. The roads over there were
often in bad shape, especially in the Wallonie (French-speaking
area). Those guys also broke spokes as often as I do.

Full confession: I often rode in Belgium because I loved their pubs
and the Abbey Ales. Still do. That's why I have a Belgian Tripel
carbonating right now and another set of ingredients ready to
brew.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Do you have the required star wrench to tighten it properly?


No but a large adjustable wrench fits. It scuffs the scallops of the nut
a little but I do not care about such aesthetics.


... Do you
also have the stock spacer between the race and the lockbolt?


Yup.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

GOOD GRIEF! Do you use a SECOND wrench to hold the upper bearing cup as you tighten the top lock nut? As Andrew said, you CAN tighten thosewith REGULAR headset wrenches.

Gads! To think that someone uses a large adjustavble wrench on a nice headset likethat. it's obvious you don't care aboutthe appearance or the proper use of your equipment. No wonder you have such problems with things breaking.

Cheers

On 5/9/2017 1:52 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 11:01:57 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-09 06:23, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 1:06:01 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 8 May 2017 19:27:20 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:10:59 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Mon, 08 May 2017 11:52:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-05-08 10:55, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

[...]

At some point in time either you or a shop did something
that knackered your top nut on your 600EX headset.


I am not the only one who has that problem. Except the others
eventually didn't have the bikes anymore, which "fixed" it
for them. I keep technical things for a long time.

Anyhow, the hose clamp fixes it for me. When I get around to
it I'll put in a new non-600 headset.

I wonder if someone over tightened Joerg's 600EX headset top nut
and stripped it? Or if he has the right top nut on it? ANyhow,
lots of them were sold and lots of them were used without Joerg's
problem showing up. Joerg seems to think that he's the ONLY ONE
who rides a road bike on trails.

Cheers

Actually I have had the same problem that Joerg has. Adjust and
tighten the steering bearings and in a few days the bearings would
be loose.

A little investigation showed that the top nut instead of
bottoming out on the upper bearing race and locking it, it was
bottoming out on a very slightly too long steerer tube. I added a
washer, perhaps 3/32" thick so the top nut actually tightened
against the bearing race and have had no more problems in the last
couple of years :-)

-- Cheers,

John B.

I'll bet that this is what Joerg's problem is. It's almost impossible
to tell a steering tube that's fractionally too long. Like yours it
will appear to tighten up because it will bend just enough to appear
to be tight. Then the extra pressure will cause it to loosen up.

Got that Joerg? Try a small washer and see if that doesn't solve your
problem.


I took it apart to make sure there wasn't any other gremlin causing this
and everything was alright. The lock nut does push down as it's supposed
to do but that just isn't good enough for rides that include dirt paths
or dirt roads. Which is almost inevitable where I live.

As I wrote I was not the only one. Back in the 80's many of the more
serious riders had Shimano 600 or 600EX. I lived in the Netherlands but
close to Germany and Belgium. The riders who only did fitness rounds in
Zuid Limburg (Dutch side) didn't have problems with the headset.
Belgians and riders like me who ventured out into Belgium had them come
loose a lot. Regardless of whether they had Gazelle, Merckx or other
frames. The roads over there were often in bad shape, especially in the
Wallonie (French-speaking area). Those guys also broke spokes as often
as I do.

Full confession: I often rode in Belgium because I loved their pubs and
the Abbey Ales. Still do. That's why I have a Belgian Tripel carbonating
right now and another set of ingredients ready to brew.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Do you have the required star wrench to tighten it properly? Do you also have the stock spacer between the race and the lockbolt?


Not essential. They accept a regular 32mm (Campagnolo
preferred) headset wrench, or just a BFW on the locknut.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 1:49:45 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:

I had a Citroen 2CV and it came standard with a crank. Which I used a
lot because as a student I couldn't bring myself to spend the equivalent
of half a dozen crates of beer on a 6V battery. This tupe of car:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%...0288067%29.jpg

AFAIK they delivered them with crank until production ended around 1980.

No electronic components whatsoever, not even a diode, so it was
EMP-proof. One could fix just about anything with a minimum amount of tools.

And you had a top speed of about 45-50 mph. They made a VW bug look like a rocket ship.

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 3:18:48 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/9/2017 1:52 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 11:01:57 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-09 06:23, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 1:06:01 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 8 May 2017 19:27:20 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:10:59 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Mon, 08 May 2017 11:52:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-05-08 10:55, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

[...]

At some point in time either you or a shop did something
that knackered your top nut on your 600EX headset.


I am not the only one who has that problem. Except the others
eventually didn't have the bikes anymore, which "fixed" it
for them. I keep technical things for a long time.

Anyhow, the hose clamp fixes it for me. When I get around to
it I'll put in a new non-600 headset.

I wonder if someone over tightened Joerg's 600EX headset top nut
and stripped it? Or if he has the right top nut on it? ANyhow,
lots of them were sold and lots of them were used without Joerg's
problem showing up. Joerg seems to think that he's the ONLY ONE
who rides a road bike on trails.

Cheers

Actually I have had the same problem that Joerg has. Adjust and
tighten the steering bearings and in a few days the bearings would
be loose.

A little investigation showed that the top nut instead of
bottoming out on the upper bearing race and locking it, it was
bottoming out on a very slightly too long steerer tube. I added a
washer, perhaps 3/32" thick so the top nut actually tightened
against the bearing race and have had no more problems in the last
couple of years :-)

-- Cheers,

John B.

I'll bet that this is what Joerg's problem is. It's almost impossible
to tell a steering tube that's fractionally too long. Like yours it
will appear to tighten up because it will bend just enough to appear
to be tight. Then the extra pressure will cause it to loosen up.

Got that Joerg? Try a small washer and see if that doesn't solve your
problem.


I took it apart to make sure there wasn't any other gremlin causing this
and everything was alright. The lock nut does push down as it's supposed
to do but that just isn't good enough for rides that include dirt paths
or dirt roads. Which is almost inevitable where I live.

As I wrote I was not the only one. Back in the 80's many of the more
serious riders had Shimano 600 or 600EX. I lived in the Netherlands but
close to Germany and Belgium. The riders who only did fitness rounds in
Zuid Limburg (Dutch side) didn't have problems with the headset.
Belgians and riders like me who ventured out into Belgium had them come
loose a lot. Regardless of whether they had Gazelle, Merckx or other
frames. The roads over there were often in bad shape, especially in the
Wallonie (French-speaking area). Those guys also broke spokes as often
as I do.

Full confession: I often rode in Belgium because I loved their pubs and
the Abbey Ales. Still do. That's why I have a Belgian Tripel carbonating
right now and another set of ingredients ready to brew.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Do you have the required star wrench to tighten it properly? Do you also have the stock spacer between the race and the lockbolt?


Not essential. They accept a regular 32mm (Campagnolo
preferred) headset wrench, or just a BFW on the locknut.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I remember rounding off the ends of the lock that way.

On 2017-05-09 14:03, wrote:
On Tue, 09 May 2017 13:49:46 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-05-08 19:16, wrote:
On Mon, 08 May 2017 14:45:24 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 5/8/2017 2:37 PM, Duane wrote:
On 08/05/2017 3:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/8/2017 1:33 PM, wrote:
On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 9:06:57 AM UTC-5,
wrote:



It's no surprise that not only have they survived but
they still work
almost as well as new.


The problem is even when new, the old stuff did not work
nearly as
well as any of the new stuff today. Kind of like a fool
saying the
drum brakes and carburetor on his 65 Pontiac was better
than the new
fancy dandy computer cars today.


Agreed, dependable/repairable/cheap is not the same as
best performance.
People have personal preferences based on various
not-shared criteria.

That said, after the Chinese run their high altitude EMP
device, my
no-electronics cars will run and yours won't.


You have a crank on the front of that model A Andrew?
Unless you mean your bike and then I'm all in with that idea.

12V electrical system without semiconductors, EPROMS or ICs.

p.s. Model T had a crank (at first anyway through 1919),
model A are electric start. I own neither.

No electronics on my bikes either.
The crank came as standard equipment right up to about 1948 in north
america and well into the 60s in britain. (Anflias, Prefects,) I know
a lot of the mid 60's BMC stuff still had cranks in the boot - the MG
right up untill the end of the MGA.


I had a Citroen 2CV and it came standard with a crank. Which I used a
lot because as a student I couldn't bring myself to spend the equivalent
of half a dozen crates of beer on a 6V battery. This tupe of car:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%...0288067%29.jpg

AFAIK they delivered them with crank until production ended around 1980.

No electronic components whatsoever, not even a diode, so it was
EMP-proof. One could fix just about anything with a minimum amount of tools.
My '49 beetle didn't come with a crank, but when a new 6 volt battery
was worth a month's pay, it didn't take me long to graft a crank nut
from a "landy" to the VW crank bolt, punch a hole in the rear sheet
metal., and bolt a "crank guide" to the rear bumper to make it
crankable!!! Pop the engine cover, slap the distributor back to full
retard, pull the crank, slap the didtrubutor to full advance, pull the
crank, slam the engine cover and GO. Forget to slap the distributor
to retard and it would attempt to tear your hand off at the wrist.


The Citroen 2CV was special in that they left anything off that was not
absolutely needed. Such as a distributor. It simply had none. The coil
had a secondary that was insulated at both ends. One end went to spark
plug #1, the other to spark plug #2. Meaning there would always be a
spark in both cylinders and thus also during the exhaust phase. The
crank could really wreck the thumb joint if not careful. Also, you had
to make sure that no clean white car or well-dressed pretty woman was
standing behind the Citroen because sometimes the car "cleared its
throat" with an impressive soot plume. Big embarrassment one fine day.
Phutah .. phutah .. phutah ... POOF .. *BAM* ... chingalingaling ... and
the 2nd muffler pot was rolling down the street. It had blown clear off
the pipes. However, the engine was running except now it sounded like a
helicopter.

No distributor also meant that retarding the point contact timing was
not really an option because that required disassembly of the fan plus
the generator, both of which were riding on the crankshaft. Because they
(rightfully) figured that a car without belts is more reliable than a
car with belts. Around 1971 they switched to 12V and an alternator on a
belt. Not surprisingly that failed at times.

The routine in winter was:

Lift hood. Pop lid of regulator (mine was off most of the time anyhow).
Place wood piece under one of the solenoids inside of it. Connect a
stack of four D-cells to a plugs under the dash. Run around and start
cranking. After start pull off the D-cells, pull out the little wood
stick and all was well.

And then people think a wee hose clamp on a headset is odd :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-05-09 15:52, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 1:49:45 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:

I had a Citroen 2CV and it came standard with a crank. Which I used a
lot because as a student I couldn't bring myself to spend the equivalent
of half a dozen crates of beer on a 6V battery. This tupe of car:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%...0288067%29.jpg

AFAIK they delivered them with crank until production ended around 1980.

No electronic components whatsoever, not even a diode, so it was
EMP-proof. One could fix just about anything with a minimum amount of tools.

And you had a top speed of about 45-50 mph. They made a VW bug look like a rocket ship.


It could do 55mph. With a tail wind even 60mph. But woe to anyone who
was behind me on a hill because it only had 16 horses. There were "other
editions" though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjQCXkCkPeQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3hPmq65FM

A local Citroen dealer in the city of Aachen had a version with a
Citroen GS engine in there, street-leagl and registered. He would show
up in the fast lane on the autobahn behind BMWs and flash the
headlights, then roar past and watch the jaws drop.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-05-09 14:37, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 3:03:22 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-09 11:52, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 11:01:57 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-09 06:23, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 1:06:01 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 8 May 2017 19:27:20 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:10:59 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Mon, 08 May 2017 11:52:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-05-08 10:55, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

[...]

At some point in time either you or a shop did
something that knackered your top nut on your
600EX headset.


I am not the only one who has that problem. Except
the others eventually didn't have the bikes anymore,
which "fixed" it for them. I keep technical things
for a long time.

Anyhow, the hose clamp fixes it for me. When I get
around to it I'll put in a new non-600 headset.

I wonder if someone over tightened Joerg's 600EX headset
top nut and stripped it? Or if he has the right top nut
on it? ANyhow, lots of them were sold and lots of them
were used without Joerg's problem showing up. Joerg seems
to think that he's the ONLY ONE who rides a road bike on
trails.

Cheers

Actually I have had the same problem that Joerg has.
Adjust and tighten the steering bearings and in a few days
the bearings would be loose.

A little investigation showed that the top nut instead of
bottoming out on the upper bearing race and locking it, it
was bottoming out on a very slightly too long steerer tube.
I added a washer, perhaps 3/32" thick so the top nut
actually tightened against the bearing race and have had no
more problems in the last couple of years :-)

-- Cheers,

John B.

I'll bet that this is what Joerg's problem is. It's almost
impossible to tell a steering tube that's fractionally too
long. Like yours it will appear to tighten up because it will
bend just enough to appear to be tight. Then the extra
pressure will cause it to loosen up.

Got that Joerg? Try a small washer and see if that doesn't
solve your problem.


I took it apart to make sure there wasn't any other gremlin
causing this and everything was alright. The lock nut does push
down as it's supposed to do but that just isn't good enough for
rides that include dirt paths or dirt roads. Which is almost
inevitable where I live.

As I wrote I was not the only one. Back in the 80's many of
the more serious riders had Shimano 600 or 600EX. I lived in
the Netherlands but close to Germany and Belgium. The riders
who only did fitness rounds in Zuid Limburg (Dutch side) didn't
have problems with the headset. Belgians and riders like me who
ventured out into Belgium had them come loose a lot. Regardless
of whether they had Gazelle, Merckx or other frames. The roads
over there were often in bad shape, especially in the Wallonie
(French-speaking area). Those guys also broke spokes as often
as I do.

Full confession: I often rode in Belgium because I loved their
pubs and the Abbey Ales. Still do. That's why I have a Belgian
Tripel carbonating right now and another set of ingredients
ready to brew.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Do you have the required star wrench to tighten it properly?


No but a large adjustable wrench fits. It scuffs the scallops of
the nut a little but I do not care about such aesthetics.


... Do you also have the stock spacer between the race and the
lockbolt?


Yup.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

GOOD GRIEF! Do you use a SECOND wrench to hold the upper bearing cup
as you tighten the top lock nut? As Andrew said, you CAN tighten
thosewith REGULAR headset wrenches.


Don't read stuff into text that isn't there. Of course I use a 2nd
wrench to hold the other. I believe the spacer has a lock but I wouldn't
trust that. Anyhow, I don't care anymore because that problem is fixed.


Gads! To think that someone uses a large adjustavble wrench on a nice
headset likethat. it's obvious you don't care aboutthe appearance or
the proper use of your equipment. No wonder you have such problems
with things breaking.


In case it hasn't occurred to you there are very nice and accurate
adjustable wrenches. Ones that are actually more precise that a "real"
wrench. I inherited two from my grandpa. You can even adjust the play in
the worm gear. Each weighs at least 2lbs.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-05-09 16:31, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-09 14:37, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 3:03:22 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-09 11:52, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 11:01:57 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-09 06:23, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 1:06:01 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 8 May 2017 19:27:20 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:10:59 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Mon, 08 May 2017 11:52:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-05-08 10:55, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

[...]

At some point in time either you or a shop did
something that knackered your top nut on your
600EX headset.


I am not the only one who has that problem. Except
the others eventually didn't have the bikes anymore,
which "fixed" it for them. I keep technical things
for a long time.

Anyhow, the hose clamp fixes it for me. When I get
around to it I'll put in a new non-600 headset.

I wonder if someone over tightened Joerg's 600EX headset
top nut and stripped it? Or if he has the right top nut
on it? ANyhow, lots of them were sold and lots of them
were used without Joerg's problem showing up. Joerg seems
to think that he's the ONLY ONE who rides a road bike on
trails.

Cheers

Actually I have had the same problem that Joerg has.
Adjust and tighten the steering bearings and in a few days
the bearings would be loose.

A little investigation showed that the top nut instead of
bottoming out on the upper bearing race and locking it, it
was bottoming out on a very slightly too long steerer tube.
I added a washer, perhaps 3/32" thick so the top nut
actually tightened against the bearing race and have had no
more problems in the last couple of years :-)

-- Cheers,

John B.

I'll bet that this is what Joerg's problem is. It's almost
impossible to tell a steering tube that's fractionally too
long. Like yours it will appear to tighten up because it will
bend just enough to appear to be tight. Then the extra
pressure will cause it to loosen up.

Got that Joerg? Try a small washer and see if that doesn't
solve your problem.


I took it apart to make sure there wasn't any other gremlin
causing this and everything was alright. The lock nut does push
down as it's supposed to do but that just isn't good enough for
rides that include dirt paths or dirt roads. Which is almost
inevitable where I live.

As I wrote I was not the only one. Back in the 80's many of
the more serious riders had Shimano 600 or 600EX. I lived in
the Netherlands but close to Germany and Belgium. The riders
who only did fitness rounds in Zuid Limburg (Dutch side) didn't
have problems with the headset. Belgians and riders like me who
ventured out into Belgium had them come loose a lot. Regardless
of whether they had Gazelle, Merckx or other frames. The roads
over there were often in bad shape, especially in the Wallonie
(French-speaking area). Those guys also broke spokes as often
as I do.

Full confession: I often rode in Belgium because I loved their
pubs and the Abbey Ales. Still do. That's why I have a Belgian
Tripel carbonating right now and another set of ingredients
ready to brew.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Do you have the required star wrench to tighten it properly?


No but a large adjustable wrench fits. It scuffs the scallops of
the nut a little but I do not care about such aesthetics.


... Do you also have the stock spacer between the race and the
lockbolt?


Yup.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

GOOD GRIEF! Do you use a SECOND wrench to hold the upper bearing cup
as you tighten the top lock nut? As Andrew said, you CAN tighten
thosewith REGULAR headset wrenches.


Don't read stuff into text that isn't there. Of course I use a 2nd
wrench to hold the other. I believe the spacer has a lock but I wouldn't
trust that. Anyhow, I don't care anymore because that problem is fixed.


Gads! To think that someone uses a large adjustavble wrench on a nice
headset likethat. it's obvious you don't care aboutthe appearance or
the proper use of your equipment. No wonder you have such problems
with things breaking.


In case it hasn't occurred to you there are very nice and accurate
adjustable wrenches. Ones that are actually more precise that a "real"
wrench. I inherited two from my grandpa. You can even adjust the play in
the worm gear. Each weighs at least 2lbs.


Oh, and from the way you worded the last paragraph I think you don't
know this trick either: Stick a clean layer of Kapton tape to the
insides of the adjustable wrenches and it will protect whatever surface
it touches. Life can be very simple. One only has to see it.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-05-09 15:54, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 3:18:48 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/9/2017 1:52 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 11:01:57 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-09 06:23, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 1:06:01 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 8 May 2017 19:27:20 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:10:59 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Mon, 08 May 2017 11:52:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-05-08 10:55, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

[...]

At some point in time either you or a shop did something
that knackered your top nut on your 600EX headset.


I am not the only one who has that problem. Except the others
eventually didn't have the bikes anymore, which "fixed" it
for them. I keep technical things for a long time.

Anyhow, the hose clamp fixes it for me. When I get around to
it I'll put in a new non-600 headset.

I wonder if someone over tightened Joerg's 600EX headset top nut
and stripped it? Or if he has the right top nut on it? ANyhow,
lots of them were sold and lots of them were used without Joerg's
problem showing up. Joerg seems to think that he's the ONLY ONE
who rides a road bike on trails.

Cheers

Actually I have had the same problem that Joerg has. Adjust and
tighten the steering bearings and in a few days the bearings would
be loose.

A little investigation showed that the top nut instead of
bottoming out on the upper bearing race and locking it, it was
bottoming out on a very slightly too long steerer tube. I added a
washer, perhaps 3/32" thick so the top nut actually tightened
against the bearing race and have had no more problems in the last
couple of years :-)

-- Cheers,

John B.

I'll bet that this is what Joerg's problem is. It's almost impossible
to tell a steering tube that's fractionally too long. Like yours it
will appear to tighten up because it will bend just enough to appear
to be tight. Then the extra pressure will cause it to loosen up.

Got that Joerg? Try a small washer and see if that doesn't solve your
problem.


I took it apart to make sure there wasn't any other gremlin causing this
and everything was alright. The lock nut does push down as it's supposed
to do but that just isn't good enough for rides that include dirt paths
or dirt roads. Which is almost inevitable where I live.

As I wrote I was not the only one. Back in the 80's many of the more
serious riders had Shimano 600 or 600EX. I lived in the Netherlands but
close to Germany and Belgium. The riders who only did fitness rounds in
Zuid Limburg (Dutch side) didn't have problems with the headset.
Belgians and riders like me who ventured out into Belgium had them come
loose a lot. Regardless of whether they had Gazelle, Merckx or other
frames. The roads over there were often in bad shape, especially in the
Wallonie (French-speaking area). Those guys also broke spokes as often
as I do.

Full confession: I often rode in Belgium because I loved their pubs and
the Abbey Ales. Still do. That's why I have a Belgian Tripel carbonating
right now and another set of ingredients ready to brew.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Do you have the required star wrench to tighten it properly? Do you also have the stock spacer between the race and the lockbolt?


Not essential. They accept a regular 32mm (Campagnolo
preferred) headset wrench, or just a BFW on the locknut.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I remember rounding off the ends of the lock that way.


Sometimes a high-end adjustable wrench is better for that because nuts
and other stuff are always slightly smaller than the stated wrench size.
So if it is 31.7mm the adjustable wrench can snugly be set to 31.7mm,
not 32mm. Just don't use cheap wrenches.

Mine look like this (often called a French Key) but all metal and with a
more precise worm gear and alignment.:
https://d2ydh70d4b5xgv.cloudfront.ne...a226bb3b44.jpg

You can actually clamp the nut tightly before turning it.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/