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LETTER - Southampton's transport plan will benefit everyone



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 25th 20, 02:05 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Simon Mason[_6_]
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Posts: 1,511
Default LETTER - Southampton's transport plan will benefit everyone

QUOTE:
As quoted in last Saturday’s Echo I am very happy that new cycle paths around Southampton are being marked out meaning an increased amount of space for cyclists, I must remark though, sad as it is I am not an elected councillor.

It is great that so many letters have been printed giving differing opinions on cycling and I am hoping that the city's transport plans now coming to fruition will overall benefit everyone.

It is incredible that the two wheeled traveller can cause such a stir and not just be helped along the way with more encouragement.
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The latest suggestion from Bernie Pearce is that cyclists should be mandated to use cycle lanes if they are provided.

Being an older cyclist I can probably stomach this one; I ride along at a sluggish pace and tend to be going at the correct speed to take those sharp inside turns dotted around the city.

And at around 12mph I have time to brake for pedestrians that seem to just ignore you on those left hand turns; even if your left hand is jutting out far enough to make half your body look like a scarecrow, all while your other hand is braking and ringing the bell.

The truth is there are still plenty of shared pedestrian and cycle paths and I hope that cyclists and pedestrians can have mutual respect.

No doubt there will be at least one cycle club member reading this thinking ‘why sacrifice some of the road space just on Bernie Pearce’s proposal?’.

And ‘am I not aware that most of the cycle lanes in the city are not designed to ride at 20mph, which is the more realistic speed a fit cyclist will be riding at?

Well I think that there should be give and take and that if motorists are prepared to stop parking/crawling along cycle lanes, stop pulling up in the cycle lane boxes at traffic lights and refrain from pulling out in front of cyclists (knowing a cyclist is the most vulnerable in the situation), and ultimately pushing cyclists too close to the kerb; well then it might just be a fair sacrifice to make within the city.

Outside the city the law of the jungle will still apply and cyclists will have to continue to assume that almost every driver is out to kill them.

Oh and let us not forget, the real danger for cyclists and pedestrians are the motor vehicles where 99% of pedestrians killed in the EU were killed by a motor vehicle.

If the road traffic can successfully keep out of the cycle lanes then there is a good chance it won’t make it onto the pavement.

Joe Cox

Southampton

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/185...efit-everyone/
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  #2  
Old June 26th 20, 10:57 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
JNugent[_12_]
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Posts: 201
Default LETTER - Southampton's transport plan will benefit everyone

On 25/06/2020 14:05, Simon Mason wrote:

QUOTE:
As quoted in last Saturday’s Echo I am very happy that new cycle paths around Southampton are being marked out meaning an increased amount of space for cyclists, I must remark though, sad as it is I am not an elected councillor.
It is great that so many letters have been printed giving differing opinions on cycling and I am hoping that the city's transport plans now coming to fruition will overall benefit everyone.
It is incredible that the two wheeled traveller can cause such a stir and not just be helped along the way with more encouragement.
The latest suggestion from Bernie Pearce is that cyclists should be mandated to use cycle lanes if they are provided.
Being an older cyclist I can probably stomach this one; I ride along at a sluggish pace and tend to be going at the correct speed to take those sharp inside turns dotted around the city.
And at around 12mph I have time to brake for pedestrians that seem to just ignore you on those left hand turns; even if your left hand is jutting out far enough to make half your body look like a scarecrow, all while your other hand is braking and ringing the bell.
The truth is there are still plenty of shared pedestrian and cycle paths and I hope that cyclists and pedestrians can have mutual respect.
No doubt there will be at least one cycle club member reading this thinking ‘why sacrifice some of the road space just on Bernie Pearce’s proposal?’.
And ‘am I not aware that most of the cycle lanes in the city are not designed to ride at 20mph, which is the more realistic speed a fit cyclist will be riding at?
Well I think that there should be give and take and that if motorists are prepared to stop parking/crawling along cycle lanes, stop pulling up in the cycle lane boxes at traffic lights and refrain from pulling out in front of cyclists (knowing a cyclist is the most vulnerable in the situation), and ultimately pushing cyclists too close to the kerb; well then it might just be a fair sacrifice to make within the city.
Outside the city the law of the jungle will still apply and cyclists will have to continue to assume that almost every driver is out to kill them.
Oh and let us not forget, the real danger for cyclists and pedestrians are the motor vehicles where 99% of pedestrians killed in the EU were killed by a motor vehicle.
If the road traffic can successfully keep out of the cycle lanes then there is a good chance it won’t make it onto the pavement.
Joe Cox


Southampton


https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/185...efit-everyone/


QUOTE:
And at around 12mph I have time to brake for pedestrians that seem to
just ignore you on those left hand turns
ENDQUOTE

A clear indication that the writer does not know the law concerning
turning traffic and pedestrians.

Traffic turning from one street into another MUST give way to a
pedestrian already crossing the street into which the vehicle is
turning. Failing to do so is an offence.

"Street" is simply used here as a synonym for "thoroughfare" - a turn
from any thoroughfare into any other thoroughfare. "Traffic" includes
bicycles, whose riders are subject to far more legal restrictions than
they want to admit, including the duty to give way to a pedestrian who
is crossing a street into which the cyclist wishes to turn. In other
words - shock! horror! oh, the humanity! - the cyclist must *stop* and
*wait* for the pedestrian(s) to finish crossing.

QUOTE:
If the road traffic can successfully keep out of the cycle lanes then
there is a good chance it won’t make it onto the pavement.
ENDQUOTE

Motor traffic hurtling along city footways ("pavements"), eh?

Yeah, right.
  #3  
Old June 28th 20, 11:34 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
TMS320
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Posts: 3,548
Default LETTER - Southampton's transport plan will benefit everyone

On 26/06/2020 10:57, JNugent wrote:
On 25/06/2020 14:05, Simon Mason wrote:

QUOTE: And at around 12mph I have time to brake for pedestrians that
seem to just ignore you on those left hand turns ENDQUOTE

A clear indication that the writer does not know the law concerning
turning traffic and pedestrians...


....but knows the overriding directive not to run them over.

It's not a law.
#170 Take extra care at junctions. You should ... give way.

It's not difficult to notice most drivers don't have a clue.

A few months ago, I was behind another cyclist that I knew and we were
about to turn left. There was a pedestrian on the pavement and he (the
cyclist) slowed to let the pedestrian pass.

I thought to myself "well done, someone that understands the rules".
Moments later he spoke to me saying that he slowed down because the
pedestrian didn't seem to be paying attention.

I told him that he was supposed to give way when turning. He genuinely
thought he had been the hero.
  #4  
Old June 28th 20, 01:21 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Simon Mason[_6_]
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Posts: 1,511
Default LETTER - Southampton's transport plan will benefit everyone

On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 11:34:29 AM UTC+1, TMS320 wrote:

#170 Take extra care at junctions. You should ... give way.

It's not difficult to notice most drivers don't have a clue.


Indeed.
I have lost count of the number of drivers who have come hurtling around a corner into a road that I am already crossing, foaming at the mouth, horns blaring and fist waving at me for having to slow down for a mere pedestrian in the road.
  #5  
Old June 28th 20, 03:29 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
JNugent[_12_]
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Posts: 201
Default LETTER - Southampton's transport plan will benefit everyone

On 28/06/2020 11:34, TMS320 wrote:
On 26/06/2020 10:57, JNugent wrote:
On 25/06/2020 14:05, Simon Mason wrote:

QUOTE: And at around 12mph I have time to brake for pedestrians that
seem to just ignore you on those left hand turns ENDQUOTE

A clear indication that the writer does not know the law concerning
turning traffic and pedestrians...


...but knows the overriding directive not to run them over.


Frightening pedestrians by riding straight at them or remonstrating with
them when they have the right of way (but the cyclist at best appears
not to know that) is unacceptable. I'm sure you will agree. At least, I
hope you will.

It's not a law.
#170 Take extra care at junctions. You should ... give way.

It's not difficult to notice most drivers don't have a clue.


Even if that were true (it isn't), it wouild not be relevant. The "big
boys do it" defence is not valid.

A few months ago, I was behind another cyclist that I knew and we were
about to turn left. There was a pedestrian on the pavement and he (the
cyclist) slowed to let the pedestrian pass.

I thought to myself "well done, someone that understands the rules".
Moments later he spoke to me saying that he slowed down because the
pedestrian didn't seem to be paying attention.

I told him that he was supposed to give way when turning. He genuinely
thought he had been the hero.


Thanks for reinforcing my point.
  #6  
Old June 28th 20, 03:29 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
JNugent[_12_]
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Posts: 201
Default LETTER - Southampton's transport plan will benefit everyone

On 28/06/2020 13:21, Simon Mason wrote:
On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 11:34:29 AM UTC+1, TMS320 wrote:

#170 Take extra care at junctions. You should ... give way.

It's not difficult to notice most drivers don't have a clue.


Indeed.
I have lost count of the number of drivers who have come hurtling around a corner into a road that I am already crossing, foaming at the mouth, horns blaring and fist waving at me for having to slow down for a mere pedestrian in the road.


Of course you have. ;-)
  #7  
Old June 28th 20, 05:14 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Kerr-Mudd,John[_2_]
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Posts: 359
Default LETTER - Southampton's transport plan will benefit everyone

On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 14:29:43 GMT, JNugent
wrote:

On 28/06/2020 13:21, Simon Mason wrote:
On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 11:34:29 AM UTC+1, TMS320 wrote:

#170 Take extra care at junctions. You should ... give way.

It's not difficult to notice most drivers don't have a clue.


Indeed.
I have lost count of the number of drivers who have come hurtling
around a corner into a road that I am already crossing, foaming at
the mouth, horns blaring and fist waving at me for having to slow
down for a mere pedestrian in the road.


Of course you have. ;-)

Are you saying a fully qualified driver would never do such a thing?


--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
  #8  
Old June 28th 20, 05:27 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
JNugent[_12_]
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Posts: 201
Default LETTER - Southampton's transport plan will benefit everyone

On 28/06/2020 17:14, Kerr-Mudd,John wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 14:29:43 GMT, JNugent
wrote:

On 28/06/2020 13:21, Simon Mason wrote:
On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 11:34:29 AM UTC+1, TMS320 wrote:

#170 Take extra care at junctions. You should ... give way.

It's not difficult to notice most drivers don't have a clue.

Indeed.
I have lost count of the number of drivers who have come hurtling
around a corner into a road that I am already crossing, foaming at
the mouth, horns blaring and fist waving at me for having to slow
down for a mere pedestrian in the road.


Of course you have. ;-)

Are you saying a fully qualified driver would never do such a thing?


I cannot say that because I don't have sufficient data on which to base
such an assertion.

But it is notable that some people claim and seem to get into a lot of
altercations with other road-users. One wonders whether it can possibly
be only the fault of those disparate "others". Or, indeed, whether
imagination plays a part in those tales.
  #9  
Old June 28th 20, 06:01 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Simon Mason[_6_]
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Posts: 1,511
Default LETTER - Southampton's transport plan will benefit everyone

On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 1:21:02 PM UTC+1, Simon Mason wrote:
On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 11:34:29 AM UTC+1, TMS320 wrote:

#170 Take extra care at junctions. You should ... give way.

It's not difficult to notice most drivers don't have a clue.


Indeed.
I have lost count of the number of drivers who have come hurtling around a corner into a road that I am already crossing, foaming at the mouth, horns blaring and fist waving at me for having to slow down for a mere pedestrian in the road.


Of course, none of them actually INDICATED their turn either!
  #10  
Old June 29th 20, 07:47 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
TMS320
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Posts: 3,548
Default LETTER - Southampton's transport plan will benefit everyone

On 28/06/2020 15:29, JNugent wrote:
On 28/06/2020 11:34, TMS320 wrote:
On 26/06/2020 10:57, JNugent wrote:
On 25/06/2020 14:05, Simon Mason wrote:

QUOTE: And at around 12mph I have time to brake for pedestrians
that seem to just ignore you on those left hand turns ENDQUOTE

A clear indication that the writer does not know the law
concerning turning traffic and pedestrians...


...but knows the overriding directive not to run them over.


Frightening pedestrians by riding straight at them or remonstrating
with them when they have the right of way (but the cyclist at best
appears not to know that) is unacceptable. I'm sure you will agree.
At least, I hope you will.


You're right. It is not acceptable to frighten pedestrians by driving
one and a half tonnes or more at them.

It's not a law. #170 Take extra care at junctions. You should ...
give way.

It's not difficult to notice most drivers don't have a clue.


Even if that were true (it isn't), it wouild not be relevant.


Don't be stupid.

The "big boys do it" defence is not valid.


Then you admit the big boys do it. Then big boys shouldn't point their
finger.

A few months ago, I was behind another cyclist that I knew and we
were about to turn left. There was a pedestrian on the pavement and
he (the cyclist) slowed to let the pedestrian pass.

I thought to myself "well done, someone that understands the
rules". Moments later he spoke to me saying that he slowed down
because the pedestrian didn't seem to be paying attention.

I told him that he was supposed to give way when turning. He
genuinely thought he had been the hero.


Thanks for reinforcing my point.


You didn't make a point.
 




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