Old School tech group members? McNammara, Brandt, Holtman, Muzi,Vecchio, Tomlinson...?

Dunning-Kruger ? I looked not aware of the study. Brutally cold at Cornell.

Here we are butt deep in empowered low aptitude and pathological types...Florida has the highest rate of violence and lowest intelligence levels of the 50.

PITA*10

OTOH, had a conversation with an overseas educator who did not understand auto mechanics are ipso facto capable, that their inarticulate nature did not support a low intelligence level observation.

sms wrote:
On 3/29/2014 3:35 PM, jbeattie wrote:

I don't know if bicycle shops have changed -- or I have changed -- but I
couldn't imagine hanging around at a shop and gabbing, like I did 30-40
years ago. In fact, I spent so much time at one shop that I ended up
working there, mostly building wheels and working on my own frames (the
shop was owned by a frame builder but he did have a small amount of stock for the locals).

I also hung out at another shop and went on a shop ride two or three
times a week, which is what got me in to racing since the shop rides
were basically races and were frequented by some of the Norcal riders
who pop up in Jobst's photos. Some of the riders worked for Phil Wood or
Mike Sinyard at the fledgling Specialized Bicycle Components or other
local shops, so there was always a lot of tech talk, much of which would
have driven Jobst crazy (magical wheel building theories, tying and soldering, etc.)

I don't know if shops like that still exist or if owners are
particularly interested in having a bunch of goofy guys hanging around
jaw-boning. Recreating my experience these days would be like moving a
pot-bellied stove and a pickle barrel into a WalMart. My LBSs are just
a little too high-gloss to be much of a hang-out for anyone other than
the staff. Cycling has changed in ways that are hard to explain except
to say that it has lost a lot of its charm, but that could just be me growing old.

Those shops seem to be long gone around here. I knew a couple of them
back in the 20th century. To survive these days you need to have a lean
staff and be selling a lot of high-end carbon-fiber bikes. No time for gabfests.

Now the shops that have added pubs and coffee bars, they probably want
people gabbing, but buying drinks while they talk.

The shop I deal with now opened about 5 years ago. They have a sofa and
chairs for hanging out and the coffee is free. You can hang out in the
shop area while they work on your bike. They are a rarity though.
--
duane

On Saturday, March 29, 2014 4:44:48 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

snip

Oh, yeah. I recall loaning one shop employee my copy of Bicycling
Science, so he could learn at least a little basic physics. He returned
it with notes "rebutting" what the author (David Gordon Wilson, PhD
engineering professor at MIT) had written.


DGW : "... The book was quite successful, attaining an almost cult-like status. In the early 90's, we desired for many changes in the original for a second edition, and we needed his help. Unfortunately, by the time Satlow asked us to think about writing the second edition, Frank Whitt was no longer around. He had a massive stroke soon after we began writing the sequel. That sad loss led me to promulgate several myths and inaccuracies... "

snip

Duane wrote:
:sms wrote:
: On 3/29/2014 3:35 PM, jbeattie wrote:
:
: Now the shops that have added pubs and coffee bars, they probably want
: people gabbing, but buying drinks while they talk.

:The shop I deal with now opened about 5 years ago. They have a sofa and
:chairs for hanging out and the coffee is free. You can hang out in the
:shop area while they work on your bike. They are a rarity though.

The bike shops I've liked dealing with have been the ones where you
could talk to the people working, or the other customers. Say "I"m
doing this" and see what they recommend, stuff like that. I've never
wanted to spend hours in a bike shop, but you learn things there. Get you in
nad out places don't apeal to me, but they're much more common.

--
sig 125

On 3/29/2014 6:48 PM, Dan O wrote:
On Saturday, March 29, 2014 4:44:48 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

snip

Oh, yeah. I recall loaning one shop employee my copy of Bicycling
Science, so he could learn at least a little basic physics. He returned
it with notes "rebutting" what the author (David Gordon Wilson, PhD
engineering professor at MIT) had written.


DGW : "... The book was quite successful, attaining an almost cult-like status. In the early 90's, we desired for many changes in the original for a second edition, and we needed his help. Unfortunately, by the time Satlow asked us to think about writing the second edition, Frank Whitt was no longer around. He had a massive stroke soon after we began writing the sequel. That sad loss led me to promulgate several myths and inaccuracies... "

snip

I lent someone my copy of Effective Cycling and fortunately he didn't
write in it. But between each two pages were type-written sheets
explaining the errors. Unfortunately, the corrections never made it into
a subsequent edition.

On Saturday, March 29, 2014 4:44:48 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/29/2014 6:35 PM, jbeattie wrote:





I don't know if bicycle shops have changed -- or I have changed -- but I couldn't imagine

hanging around at a shop and gabbing, like I did 30-40 years ago...



I did only a little hanging around at bike shops. That's because by the

time I had a fairly nice bike and was really getting into riding, I had

a kid. Then I had another. Kids tend to anchor you at home.



But even so, it was a wonderful place to visit and daydream, even if I

couldn't afford much of what they sold.



... there was always a lot of tech talk, much of which would have driven Jobst crazy

(magical wheel building theories, tying and soldering, etc.)



Oh, yeah. I recall loaning one shop employee my copy of Bicycling

Science, so he could learn at least a little basic physics. He returned

it with notes "rebutting" what the author (David Gordon Wilson, PhD

engineering professor at MIT) had written.



That was before the Dunning-Kruger Effect was publicized, but it was

already working in high gear.

I loan the local shops my credit card.