Plastic coated cables

On Sat, 07 May 2016 06:44:17 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 5/6/2016 8:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2016 07:07:34 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 5/5/2016 9:05 PM, John B. wrote:

All of my bikes have plastic lined brake and shift cable housings
(casings?). I have seen plastic coated cables and wonder whether one
could use a plastic coated cable in a plastic lined cable housing with
the hope of reducing friction.

Generally a plain bearing, which in essence is what a bicycle cable
and housing are, is a hard surface moving on a softer surface and I am
wondering what the results of running a relatively soft plastic coated
cable in a relatively soft plastic lines housing would be.

Does it work? Is it better?


In our experience modern smooth drawn wires in PTFE liners
are the smoothest and most durable combination. Despite
printed instructions to the contrary, a wipe of the wire
with oily fingers at installation is our usual technique.

Gad Sir! Oily fingers? Don't your people wear those pretty blue work
gloves that I see on Youtube?


Are you kidding? How would anyone know you had honest work
without those permanent grey lines in your hands?

Ah, come on there. them there gray lines make the McDonalds taste
funny. Better, by far, to wash one hands :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 7 May 2016 13:26:59 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt
wrote:

John B. wrote:
:On Sat, 07 May 2016 02:53:18 +0100, Phil W Lee
:wrote:

:AMuzi considered Fri, 06 May 2016 07:07:34 -0500
:the perfect time to write:
:
:On 5/5/2016 9:05 PM, John B. wrote:
:
: All of my bikes have plastic lined brake and shift cable housings
: (casings?). I have seen plastic coated cables and wonder whether one
: could use a plastic coated cable in a plastic lined cable housing with
: the hope of reducing friction.
:
: Generally a plain bearing, which in essence is what a bicycle cable
: and housing are, is a hard surface moving on a softer surface and I am
: wondering what the results of running a relatively soft plastic coated
: cable in a relatively soft plastic lines housing would be.
:
: Does it work? Is it better?
:
:
:In our experience modern smooth drawn wires in PTFE liners
:are the smoothest and most durable combination. Despite
:printed instructions to the contrary, a wipe of the wire
:with oily fingers at installation is our usual technique.
:
:Oil, grease, or wax on the cable do help repel water, with it's
:accompanying problems.
:So I wouldn't skip that step either.

:Aren't most cables stainless these days? I ride in the rain
ccasionally and my cables never get rusty.

Good ones are. Galvanized are available, and are cheaper. (but if
you're paying someone to do the work, the cost difference is swamped
by the price of labor).

Well, I am retired so I rarely pay someone else to do it :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 7 May 2016 10:18:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/7/2016 9:26 AM, David Scheidt wrote:
John B. wrote:


:Aren't most cables stainless these days? I ride in the rain
ccasionally and my cables never get rusty.

Good ones are. Galvanized are available, and are cheaper. (but if
you're paying someone to do the work, the cost difference is swamped
by the price of labor).

Galvanized seem way easier to solder before cutting. I do like that.

If you are talking about soldering the end you are poking through the
casing I find that Magic Glue works well.

But I do remember changing the cables on my British Royal Enfield
motorcycle and having to solder the end fitting to the wire and after
you had the cable installed there was a little prayer that you said
just before you squeezed the lever the first time, "Please don't
break" :-)
..
--

Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 7 May 2016 23:25:48 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/7/2016 10:29 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 5/7/2016 1:54 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
: Frank Krygowski wrote:
:
:
: Galvanized seem way easier to solder before cutting. I do like that.
:
:
:
: You prefer galvanized cables because of that? Weird. Solder? Also weird.

:Nope, didn't say I preferred galvanized. I said I like that I can
:solder them.

:Solder (before cutting) is AFAICT the best way of finishing a cable end,
:by far.

Silver solder the stainless ones, then.

I haven't tried that. Has anyone else? Any tips?

Well, you will need to use the stainless flux and then get the cable
red hot and then after you solder it you need to clean all the
solidified flux off/out of the cable. :-)

Plus... silver solder is not cheap.



--

Cheers,

John B.

On 8/05/2016 1:2d5 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/7/2016 10:29 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 5/7/2016 1:54 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
: Frank Krygowski wrote:
:
:
: Galvanized seem way easier to solder before cutting. I do like that.
:
:
:
: You prefer galvanized cables because of that? Weird. Solder? Also
weird.

:Nope, didn't say I preferred galvanized. I said I like that I can
:solder them.

:Solder (before cutting) is AFAICT the best way of finishing a cable end,
:by far.

Silver solder the stainless ones, then.

I haven't tried that. Has anyone else? Any tips?


Clean any oil or grease residue off area of stainless steel cable to be
soldered. Boil in water and detergent to be really sure then rinse in
clean water and dry with hot air.

Wear safety goggles and have fume extraction or do it in the open air.

Dip cable in phosphoric acid of the sort used as a rust converter in
auto body repair. Coca-cola is unfortunately not concentrated enough.

Solder with a high wattage (80-120W) electric or gas soldering iron. One
with a substantial soldering bit. Use rosin core 60/40 solder (more than
50% tin). Its good to have an iron with a broad face so the cable can be
submerged and worked around in a glob of molted solder. Have one of
those short bristled acid brushes handy to brush on more phosphoric acid
as needed. Clean the job up afterwards with water and a brillo pad.
It works for me ;-)
PH

Op 8-5-2016 om 7:45 schreef Peter Howard:
On 8/05/2016 1:2d5 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/7/2016 10:29 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 5/7/2016 1:54 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
: Frank Krygowski wrote:
:
:
: Galvanized seem way easier to solder before cutting. I do like
that.
:
:
:
: You prefer galvanized cables because of that? Weird. Solder? Also
weird.

:Nope, didn't say I preferred galvanized. I said I like that I can
:solder them.

:Solder (before cutting) is AFAICT the best way of finishing a cable
end,
:by far.

Silver solder the stainless ones, then.

I haven't tried that. Has anyone else? Any tips?


Clean any oil or grease residue off area of stainless steel cable to be
soldered. Boil in water and detergent to be really sure then rinse in
clean water and dry with hot air.

Wear safety goggles and have fume extraction or do it in the open air.

Dip cable in phosphoric acid of the sort used as a rust converter in
auto body repair. Coca-cola is unfortunately not concentrated enough.

Solder with a high wattage (80-120W) electric or gas soldering iron. One
with a substantial soldering bit. Use rosin core 60/40 solder (more than
50% tin). Its good to have an iron with a broad face so the cable can be
submerged and worked around in a glob of molted solder. Have one of
those short bristled acid brushes handy to brush on more phosphoric acid
as needed. Clean the job up afterwards with water and a brillo pad.
It works for me ;-)
PH


Why goiing through all that trouble?

On 8/05/2016 4:55 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 8-5-2016 om 7:45 schreef Peter Howard:
On 8/05/2016 1:2d5 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/7/2016 10:29 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 5/7/2016 1:54 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
: Frank Krygowski wrote:
:
:
: Galvanized seem way easier to solder before cutting. I do like
that.
:
:
:
: You prefer galvanized cables because of that? Weird. Solder? Also
weird.

:Nope, didn't say I preferred galvanized. I said I like that I can
:solder them.

:Solder (before cutting) is AFAICT the best way of finishing a cable
end,
:by far.

Silver solder the stainless ones, then.

I haven't tried that. Has anyone else? Any tips?


Clean any oil or grease residue off area of stainless steel cable to be
soldered. Boil in water and detergent to be really sure then rinse in
clean water and dry with hot air.

Wear safety goggles and have fume extraction or do it in the open air.

Dip cable in phosphoric acid of the sort used as a rust converter in
auto body repair. Coca-cola is unfortunately not concentrated enough.

Solder with a high wattage (80-120W) electric or gas soldering iron. One
with a substantial soldering bit. Use rosin core 60/40 solder (more than
50% tin). Its good to have an iron with a broad face so the cable can be
submerged and worked around in a glob of molted solder. Have one of
those short bristled acid brushes handy to brush on more phosphoric acid
as needed. Clean the job up afterwards with water and a brillo pad.
It works for me ;-)
PH


Why goiing through all that trouble?


Because it is possible?
PH

On Sun, 8 May 2016 15:45:27 +1000, Peter Howard
wrote:

On 8/05/2016 1:2d5 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/7/2016 10:29 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 5/7/2016 1:54 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
: Frank Krygowski wrote:
:
:
: Galvanized seem way easier to solder before cutting. I do like that.
:
:
:
: You prefer galvanized cables because of that? Weird. Solder? Also
weird.

:Nope, didn't say I preferred galvanized. I said I like that I can
:solder them.

:Solder (before cutting) is AFAICT the best way of finishing a cable end,
:by far.

Silver solder the stainless ones, then.

I haven't tried that. Has anyone else? Any tips?


Clean any oil or grease residue off area of stainless steel cable to be
soldered. Boil in water and detergent to be really sure then rinse in
clean water and dry with hot air.

Wear safety goggles and have fume extraction or do it in the open air.

Dip cable in phosphoric acid of the sort used as a rust converter in
auto body repair. Coca-cola is unfortunately not concentrated enough.

Solder with a high wattage (80-120W) electric or gas soldering iron. One
with a substantial soldering bit. Use rosin core 60/40 solder (more than
50% tin). Its good to have an iron with a broad face so the cable can be
submerged and worked around in a glob of molted solder. Have one of
those short bristled acid brushes handy to brush on more phosphoric acid
as needed. Clean the job up afterwards with water and a brillo pad.
It works for me ;-)
PH

Errr.... I think that the guy was talking about "silver soldering, or
more correctly "silver brazing", which is done in the 1145 to 1650ºF
temperature range.
--
cheers,

John B.

On 5/8/2016 1:41 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 7 May 2016 10:18:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/7/2016 9:26 AM, David Scheidt wrote:
John B. wrote:


:Aren't most cables stainless these days? I ride in the rain
ccasionally and my cables never get rusty.

Good ones are. Galvanized are available, and are cheaper. (but if
you're paying someone to do the work, the cost difference is swamped
by the price of labor).

Galvanized seem way easier to solder before cutting. I do like that.

If you are talking about soldering the end you are poking through the
casing I find that Magic Glue works well.

But I do remember changing the cables on my British Royal Enfield
motorcycle and having to solder the end fitting to the wire and after
you had the cable installed there was a little prayer that you said
just before you squeezed the lever the first time, "Please don't
break" :-)

I recall making a custom straddle cable for a rear center pull brake on
my wife's mixte, many years ago. I wanted to put the brake at the mixte
tubes and behind the seat tube, since that gives a perfect alignment for
the brake cable. It required a very long straddle cable that would pass
around the front of the seat tube. I cut the end buttons out of a steel
rod, drilled them, and soldered the cable with (IIRC) ordinary solder.
It worked fine, and the current owner still uses that setup.

I also recall fabricating a clutch cable for a motorcycle using the same
technique. One tip: The transverse hole through the button should be
countersunk on one end. The cable is inserted in the non-countersunk
end, and the cable wires get un-twisted and splayed out before
soldering, so they're spread out in the countersunk hole. It supposedly
increases the strength of the joint tremendously.

(I've seen that technique used to anchor the ends of cables before
placing in a tension testing machine, for testing cables to failure.)


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 7:05:42 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
All of my bikes have plastic lined brake and shift cable housings
(casings?). I have seen plastic coated cables and wonder whether one
could use a plastic coated cable in a plastic lined cable housing with
the hope of reducing friction.

Generally a plain bearing, which in essence is what a bicycle cable
and housing are, is a hard surface moving on a softer surface and I am
wondering what the results of running a relatively soft plastic coated
cable in a relatively soft plastic lines housing would be.

Does it work? Is it better?
--

Cheers,

John B.

superior flux #71- the way to go with stainless cable- Pat