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The sweet spot in biking



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 21st 04, 11:54 AM
Badger_South
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Default The sweet spot in biking

A few folks here have mentioned getting into cycling directly or incidently
after having problems with jogging, a great activity, but problematic for
quite a few after years or even sooner.

The problem I found is that you just don't get that runner's high, which
for me involved moving into a higher plane of activity, with more demand on
the body at the 6-7 min/mile threshold (ymmv), with cycling like you do
with jogging. (not to say biking doesn't make you high, John Denver).

I've hoped that this higher plane would be available on the bike, but
wasn't sure. But for me, when in this state while jogging was as clear as
night and day. Biking can be a bit too mild - even when you're highly
trained and moving at 20mph easily, you're not really in the 'zone'
(whereas a beginner would be).

I'm now beginning to think that there is a comperable, if not enhanced
version of this runner's high on the bike, and it lies in the area of
spinning up, and continuous climbing. I really felt this sensation strongly
yesterday on the 2 mile climb at 4-5%, and felt as though I could keep this
high demand output for extended periods. (of course the more advanced
riders would be going faster, but the analogy is similar). There was a nice
sensation of tightness in the lower body, which felt like when you stand
and tense your muscles to 'make a muscle' in the mirror, but obviously the
quads were contracting and relaxing - it's hard to describe, I guess.

In addition, I felt like I needed to stay at this output level and not drop
off to coast or even hit the flats, or I'd move out of the zone or
metabolic 'sweet spot'. It was -really- disappointing to have to coast
slowly to the bottom after turning around at the summit, and wait that long
to do a repeat. Obviously, I need to increase the warmup. The two to three
miles to the park from my house will include some shorter but steeper
sections. But the neat thing is that this 'mistake' highlighted an
interesting illumination (for me).

What's also nice is that on the bike you can fine tune this sweet spot much
easier using gearing than when running where your adjustments are coarse.

I also found that I had to push to get into this zone. I.e. at the first
urge to gear down, I upped the cadence, and would try to hold it for
another 100yds. With this method I felt the -body- shift gears internally,
which is pretty cool.

Anyway, early morning raving. Imagination or not, I'm having fun... ;-D

-B


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  #2  
Old October 21st 04, 02:00 PM
Paul Cassel
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Badger_South wrote:
A few folks here have mentioned getting into cycling directly or incidently
after having problems with jogging, a great activity, but problematic for
quite a few after years or even sooner.

The problem I found is that you just don't get that runner's high, which
for me involved moving into a higher plane of activity, with more demand on
the body at the 6-7 min/mile threshold (ymmv), with cycling like you do
with jogging. (not to say biking doesn't make you high, John Denver).


I came into cycling after running for years too. IMO, the reason we
can't get similarly 'high' is that in most cycling we are distracted
often by the need to navigate traffic or other breaks in our flow.
Running was an activity where I could just put myself on auto and float
along where cycling, for the most part, isn't similar due to the need to
do it in multi use areas where we are either much faster than walkers or
slower than cages.

We have a bike path near me. If I can get there when few others are
there then can get into the same flow as running. Unfortunately, the
others on the path are often walkers or even families with baby
strollers so usually I have to keep alert enough to give them way.

My guess is you found your high not due to the slope, but that you were
able to produce significant wattage without interruption. But I could be
wrong.

-paul
  #3  
Old October 21st 04, 02:17 PM
Badger_South
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On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 07:00:19 -0600, Paul Cassel wrote:

My guess is you found your high not due to the slope, but that you were
able to produce significant wattage without interruption. But I could be
wrong.

-paul


Yes, this is my feeling. It explains why cyclists like to go ride in the
mountains, with that uninterrupted wattage opportunity. Serously that
hadn't occured to me in just this way until now (duh). ;-)

-B
(Mostly it's that they are freaks of nature, though, and enjoy pain,
dontcha think?g)

  #4  
Old October 21st 04, 02:18 PM
Claire Petersky
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"Badger_South" wrote in message
...

I'm now beginning to think that there is a comperable, if not enhanced
version of this runner's high on the bike, and it lies in the area of
spinning up, and continuous climbing.


I wrote about this tangentally, a few years back -- see:
http://tinyurl.com/6zkpd. The post was entitled, "riding like drinking
schnapps?"


--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
please substitute yahoo for mousepotato to reply
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky


  #5  
Old October 21st 04, 02:44 PM
Badger_South
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Default

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:18:27 GMT, "Claire Petersky"
wrote:

"Badger_South" wrote in message
.. .

I'm now beginning to think that there is a comperable, if not enhanced
version of this runner's high on the bike, and it lies in the area of
spinning up, and continuous climbing.


I wrote about this tangentally, a few years back -- see:
http://tinyurl.com/6zkpd. The post was entitled, "riding like drinking
schnapps?"


Yes, I'm in the 'honeymoon' phase of this, and knowing that I'm intending
to enjoy the heck outta it.

When I read about your century and double century rides I get this glazed
over feeling and wish I was at that level. But the truth is 'you'll get
there soon enough...don't wish your life away, etc.', and you've
highlighted this admirably. (funny post, that).

I only wish I had been at this point when the Shenandoah ride came up in
Sept. (missed it by -that- much..., lol). If I can get the cue sheet from
them, I may go ride it as a preview in November. It's only about 80 miles
from here by car...thinking aloud.

-B


  #6  
Old October 21st 04, 04:01 PM
amh
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Badger_South wrote in message . ..
A few folks here have mentioned getting into cycling directly or incidently
after having problems with jogging, a great activity, but problematic for
quite a few after years or even sooner.


How so? I've been running since 1979. No major problems that prevent
me from anything. Running does no damage if done properly (warm up,
down, stretch) with good shoes.


The problem I found is that you just don't get that runner's high, which
for me involved moving into a higher plane of activity, with more demand on
the body at the 6-7 min/mile threshold (ymmv), with cycling like you do
with jogging. (not to say biking doesn't make you high, John Denver).


I find that runner's high occurs more with time than it does with
effort. There have been long runs I've done where I have little
recollection of them when I'm done.


I've hoped that this higher plane would be available on the bike, but
wasn't sure. But for me, when in this state while jogging was as clear as
night and day. Biking can be a bit too mild - even when you're highly
trained and moving at 20mph easily, you're not really in the 'zone'
(whereas a beginner would be).


I tend to think that there is more going on while riding a bicycle.
When I'm running for 90 minutes + I can zone out. I just have to be
mindful of my surroundings to a small degree. The rest is automatic.
Cycling I'm changing grears, trying to keep upright, looking for
potholes all at a higher speed. Running is a highly repetative motion,
while cycling there are many different positions (3 on the bars and on
or off the saddle).


I'm now beginning to think that there is a comperable, if not enhanced
version of this runner's high on the bike, and it lies in the area of
spinning up, and continuous climbing. I really felt this sensation strongly
yesterday on the 2 mile climb at 4-5%, and felt as though I could keep this
high demand output for extended periods. (of course the more advanced
riders would be going faster, but the analogy is similar). There was a nice
sensation of tightness in the lower body, which felt like when you stand
and tense your muscles to 'make a muscle' in the mirror, but obviously the
quads were contracting and relaxing - it's hard to describe, I guess.


This situation you describe is a lot to do with high levels of
concentration. It may almost become a yoga like situation. But I see
your point and can identify with it.

I think that I've gotten more of a cyclist's high while touring
someplace quiet. I just soak in the surroundings and it seems I don't
notice my legs moving.


Anyway, early morning raving. Imagination or not, I'm having fun... ;-D


To paraphrase Duke Ellington "If it feels like fun it is fun."

Andy


-B

  #7  
Old October 21st 04, 04:10 PM
neil0502
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Default

amh wrote:

Badger_South wrote
A few folks here have mentioned getting into cycling directly or
incidently after having problems with jogging, a great activity, but
problematic for quite a few after years or even sooner.


How so? I've been running since 1979. No major problems that prevent
me from anything. Running does no damage if done properly (warm up,
down, stretch) with good shoes.


Count yourself very, very fortunate.

Running can be very, very tough on the knees (and shins and ligaments and
tendons), proper technique, good shoes, forgiving surfaces, low BMI, and
best intentions notwithstanding.


  #8  
Old October 21st 04, 04:20 PM
gds
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Default

Badger_South wrote in message . ..
A few folks here have mentioned getting into cycling directly or incidently
after having problems with jogging, a great activity, but problematic for
quite a few after years or even sooner.

The problem I found is that you just don't get that runner's high, which
for me involved moving into a higher plane of activity, with more demand on
the body at the 6-7 min/mile threshold (ymmv), with cycling like you do
with jogging. (not to say biking doesn't make you high, John Denver).

I've hoped that this higher plane would be available on the bike, but
wasn't sure. But for me, when in this state while jogging was as clear as
night and day. Biking can be a bit too mild - even when you're highly
trained and moving at 20mph easily, you're not really in the 'zone'
(whereas a beginner would be).

I'm now beginning to think that there is a comperable, if not enhanced
version of this runner's high on the bike, and it lies in the area of
spinning up, and continuous climbing. I really felt this sensation strongly
yesterday on the 2 mile climb at 4-5%, and felt as though I could keep this
high demand output for extended periods. (of course the more advanced
riders would be going faster, but the analogy is similar). There was a nice
sensation of tightness in the lower body, which felt like when you stand
and tense your muscles to 'make a muscle' in the mirror, but obviously the
quads were contracting and relaxing - it's hard to describe, I guess.

In addition, I felt like I needed to stay at this output level and not drop
off to coast or even hit the flats, or I'd move out of the zone or
metabolic 'sweet spot'. It was -really- disappointing to have to coast
slowly to the bottom after turning around at the summit, and wait that long
to do a repeat. Obviously, I need to increase the warmup. The two to three
miles to the park from my house will include some shorter but steeper
sections. But the neat thing is that this 'mistake' highlighted an
interesting illumination (for me).

What's also nice is that on the bike you can fine tune this sweet spot much
easier using gearing than when running where your adjustments are coarse.

I also found that I had to push to get into this zone. I.e. at the first
urge to gear down, I upped the cadence, and would try to hold it for
another 100yds. With this method I felt the -body- shift gears internally,
which is pretty cool.

Anyway, early morning raving. Imagination or not, I'm having fun... ;-D

-B

Agreed! You need to work hard to get those endorphins going. Cycling
allows yu to break up the continuus hard work of running. Runners
don't coast and runners work hard going downhill as well as up. On a
bike it is easy to just sit up for a while and that will slow down
endorphin production.
On longer rides I use a HR meter. Mostly so that I won't blow up
chasing better riders for long periods of time. However, when the
group isn't hammering I'm sometimes surprised to see that I am riding
comnfortably in the pack at 20 mph but my HR is only ~65% of LTHL.
When I run my HR never goes much below 85%.
  #9  
Old October 21st 04, 04:20 PM
David Reuteler
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Claire Petersky wrote:

"Badger_South" wrote in message
...

I'm now beginning to think that there is a comperable, if not enhanced
version of this runner's high on the bike, and it lies in the area of
spinning up, and continuous climbing.


I wrote about this tangentally, a few years back -- see:
http://tinyurl.com/6zkpd. The post was entitled, "riding like drinking
schnapps?"


time for you to start touring, claire. 90+ mile days, lots of climbing.
every night the sleep of angels.
--
david reuteler

  #10  
Old October 21st 04, 09:09 PM
David L. Johnson
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On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:20:41 -0700, gds wrote:

Agreed! You need to work hard to get those endorphins going. Cycling
allows yu to break up the continuus hard work of running. Runners don't
coast and runners work hard going downhill as well as up.


Sounds like an argument for a fixed gear.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | When you are up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember
_`\(,_ | that your initial objective was to drain the swamp. -- LBJ
(_)/ (_) |


 




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