Which rims for Big Apple?

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 06:48:42 -0500, Tom Sherman
wrote:

I often had comments from roadies

Where are you riding? On trails? In fields?

On paved roads (mostly) on a bicycle that looks a lot like this:
http://www.icehouse.net/jim_d/gifs/rocket.jpg.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 08:43:49 -0500, Tom Sherman
wrote:

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 06:48:42 -0500, Tom Sherman
wrote:

I often had comments from roadies

Where are you riding? On trails? In fields?

On paved roads (mostly) on a bicycle that looks a lot like this:
http://www.icehouse.net/jim_d/gifs/rocket.jpg.

LOL

On Jul 6, 4:03*am, Ned Mantei wrote:
In article
,
*Andre Jute wrote:

Anyone with experience of Scwalbe's Big Apple tyre?

1.Is it true that the Big Apple is a good substitute for a suspension
fork and a suspended setpost?

My every day/commute bike has 2-inch (50-559) Schwalbe Marathon tires,
which are similar to the Big Apple. *

There are many Schwalbe tires called "Marathon", but the most popular
of them are stiffer tires than the Big Apple that have more rolling
resistance when run at very low pressure. And low pressure is key to
a tire's suspension effects.

Although fine on unpaved roads,
there is still much more vibration/shaking compared to my mountain bike
with front suspension fork.

A suspension fork usually has constant-spring-rate travel of between 2
and 7 inches. Stiction (the fork's initial resistance to movement)
can be insignificant or bothersome depending on the specifics
characteristics of the fork. Bottoming a suspension fork is
uncomfortable but not usually damaging.

A tire has, in effect, sharply rising spring rate and travel that
maxes out at the height of the sidewall (in the case of the Big Apple,
about 2 inches). In fork terms, the suspension travel even less than
that-- it is the difference between the tire's sidewall height and the
height of the tire that would otherwise be used. Tires do not have
stiction, but tires with very stiff sidewalls can display a sort of
resistance to being squashed that is comparable to a small amount of
stiction. Bottoming a tire usually flats the tire and sometimes
damages the wheel.

For these reasons, the suspension action of a fat tire is more
comparable to that of a very short-travel suspension such as the
Cannondale Silk Road fork or the Moots YBB rear wishbone. And a fat
tire offers this much suspension along with the benefits of low added
weight, high reliability, increased traction, increased tire wear
life, and longer intervals between tire top-up.

Chalo

Chalo

¿Big Apples similar to Marathons? Yes, they're both round. ;-)

El domingo, 6 de julio de 2008 a las 11:03:52 UTC+2, Ned Mantei escribió:
In article
,
Andre Jute wrote:
Anyone with experience of Scwalbe's Big Apple tyre?

1.Is it true that the Big Apple is a good substitute for a suspension
fork and a suspended setpost?


My every day/commute bike has 2-inch (50-559) Schwalbe Marathon tires,
which are similar to the Big Apple. Although fine on unpaved roads,
there is still much more vibration/shaking compared to my mountain bike
with front suspension fork. But compared to my old commute bike with
700x28C, the wider tires are far more comfortable (and also safer, I
think), and in the city I don't worry about potholes or a tire getting
caught in tram tracks. Any difference in speed or rolling resistance is
so minor that I don't notice it.
So 25 years later I have overcome my indoctrination by Eugene Sloan's
"Complete Book of Bicycling".
Ned

It was fun reading again this old thread which Santiago has revived. Since I asked the question, I had a decade and more of experience on 60x622 Big Apples, and I don't even consider other tyres. My replacement Big Apples already stand on top of my bookshelf. On another forum I published an extended set of experiences and opinions on the Big Apples:
In praise of riding low pressure tyres fast
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....16360#msg16360

Andre Jute
Chalo Colina is one smart cookie

On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 10:16:32 AM UTC+1, Santiago Perez wrote:
¿Big Apples similar to Marathons? Yes, they're both round. ;-)

Andre Jute wrote:
It was fun reading again this old thread which Santiago has revived.
Since I asked the question, I had a decade and more of experience on
60x622 Big Apples, and I don't even consider other tyres. My replacement
Big Apples already stand on top of my bookshelf. On another forum I
published an extended set of experiences and opinions on the Big Apples:
In praise of riding low pressure tyres fast
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....16360#msg16360

Andre Jute
Chalo Colina is one smart cookie

On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 10:16:32 AM UTC+1, Santiago Perez wrote:
¿Big Apples similar to Marathons? Yes, they're both round. ;-)


I rate them as well, on my commute bike, a older MTB with panniers and so
on.

Do have a lovely ride quality for what is a hard wearing/glass shrugging
off tyre, and makes what is a heavy bike feel lively and fun to ride.

Would a MTB XC tyres give similar feel grip? Yes but it would also be
threadbare in under 4 months with the miles i clock up, and in probability
would get got by some glass/thorns etc.

It does though slide somewhat as my routes become wetter, even more than
things like Marathon plus Touring and the like, still passable but does
drift a bit, and yes MTB XC/Gravel tyres can just rail that stuff.

But they are as dependable as the Marathon plus touring, probably does wear
a bit faster but still fairly okay at 5k generally commute tyres don’t wear
out but reach a point of having too many war scars for me to trust anymore!

Roger Merriman

On Saturday, October 17, 2020 at 4:44:21 PM UTC+1, Roger Merriman wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
It was fun reading again this old thread which Santiago has revived.
Since I asked the question, I had a decade and more of experience on
60x622 Big Apples, and I don't even consider other tyres. My replacement
Big Apples already stand on top of my bookshelf. On another forum I
published an extended set of experiences and opinions on the Big Apples:
In praise of riding low pressure tyres fast
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....16360#msg16360

Andre Jute
Chalo Colina is one smart cookie

On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 10:16:32 AM UTC+1, Santiago Perez wrote:
¿Big Apples similar to Marathons? Yes, they're both round. ;-)

I rate them as well, on my commute bike, a older MTB with panniers and so
on.

Do have a lovely ride quality for what is a hard wearing/glass shrugging
off tyre, and makes what is a heavy bike feel lively and fun to ride.

Would a MTB XC tyres give similar feel grip? Yes but it would also be
threadbare in under 4 months with the miles i clock up, and in probability
would get got by some glass/thorns etc.

It does though slide somewhat as my routes become wetter, even more than
things like Marathon plus Touring and the like, still passable but does
drift a bit, and yes MTB XC/Gravel tyres can just rail that stuff.

But they are as dependable as the Marathon plus touring, probably does wear
a bit faster but still fairly okay at 5k generally commute tyres don’t wear
out but reach a point of having too many war scars for me to trust anymore!

Roger Merriman

Mine made 8500km, c5000m, with the rear tire worn smooth and the front still having tread all round. Schwalbe says one can wear the Big Apples until the anti-puncture strip of rubber shows all round. I don't doubt that is right, but I was unifying the differential service intervals between components, so I fitted a new pair.

Andre Jute
Schwalbe, patron saint of cyclists

On 17/10/2020 17:44, Roger Merriman wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
It was fun reading again this old thread which Santiago has revived.
Since I asked the question, I had a decade and more of experience on
60x622 Big Apples, and I don't even consider other tyres. My replacement
Big Apples already stand on top of my bookshelf. On another forum I
published an extended set of experiences and opinions on the Big Apples:
In praise of riding low pressure tyres fast
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....16360#msg16360

Andre Jute
Chalo Colina is one smart cookie

On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 10:16:32 AM UTC+1, Santiago Perez wrote:
¿Big Apples similar to Marathons? Yes, they're both round. ;-)


I rate them as well, on my commute bike, a older MTB with panniers and so
on.

Do have a lovely ride quality for what is a hard wearing/glass shrugging
off tyre, and makes what is a heavy bike feel lively and fun to ride.

Would a MTB XC tyres give similar feel grip? Yes but it would also be
threadbare in under 4 months with the miles i clock up, and in probability
would get got by some glass/thorns etc.

It does though slide somewhat as my routes become wetter, even more than
things like Marathon plus Touring and the like, still passable but does
drift a bit, and yes MTB XC/Gravel tyres can just rail that stuff.

But they are as dependable as the Marathon plus touring, probably does wear
a bit faster but still fairly okay at 5k generally commute tyres don’t wear
out but reach a point of having too many war scars for me to trust anymore!

I'd like to give them a try but on the Surly LHT with mudguards, the M+
Tour 622x47mm *just* fit under the mudguard. I suppose I could build a
559mm to try, but that's excessive :-(

On Sunday, October 18, 2020 at 9:14:00 AM UTC+1, Tosspot wrote:
On 17/10/2020 17:44, Roger Merriman wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
It was fun reading again this old thread which Santiago has revived.
Since I asked the question, I had a decade and more of experience on
60x622 Big Apples, and I don't even consider other tyres. My replacement
Big Apples already stand on top of my bookshelf. On another forum I
published an extended set of experiences and opinions on the Big Apples:
In praise of riding low pressure tyres fast
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....16360#msg16360

Andre Jute
Chalo Colina is one smart cookie

On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 10:16:32 AM UTC+1, Santiago Perez wrote:
¿Big Apples similar to Marathons? Yes, they're both round. ;-)


I rate them as well, on my commute bike, a older MTB with panniers and so
on.

Do have a lovely ride quality for what is a hard wearing/glass shrugging
off tyre, and makes what is a heavy bike feel lively and fun to ride.

Would a MTB XC tyres give similar feel grip? Yes but it would also be
threadbare in under 4 months with the miles i clock up, and in probability
would get got by some glass/thorns etc.

It does though slide somewhat as my routes become wetter, even more than
things like Marathon plus Touring and the like, still passable but does
drift a bit, and yes MTB XC/Gravel tyres can just rail that stuff.

But they are as dependable as the Marathon plus touring, probably does wear
a bit faster but still fairly okay at 5k generally commute tyres don’t wear
out but reach a point of having too many war scars for me to trust anymore!
I'd like to give them a try but on the Surly LHT with mudguards, the M+
Tour 622x47mm *just* fit under the mudguard. I suppose I could build a
559mm to try, but that's excessive :-(

The bigger the rim you fit the Big Apples on in both diameter and width, and the wider the tyre you fit, in short, the more air in you Big Apples, the better they get because the lower the pressure you need to inflate to. Chalo Colina, who pulled the scales north or 350 pounds, rode 60x622 Big Apples at 2bar, about 29psi! The late builder of the most commercially viable Pedersen bike (now built by Utopia), Kalle Kalkhoff thought it so important to fit the 60mm 622 that he built a special bike without mudguards to cram them in. Presumably he rode it only on sunshine days.

You do know that some of the Marathon tyres around the 47mm mark are kissing cousins of the Big Apple, don't you? I don't know which ones -- the whole Marathon scene is a movable feast which even includes the Big Apple -- but some tourers that I hang out with have had agreeable effects from lowing tyre pressure all round in various touring Marathon (something)s. The thread I linked was actually started by me when it became the Thorn official policy to promote lower pressures -- I hadn't mentioned it before because I thought every cyclist who was paying attention was past the "16bar and more if you have the beef to pump more" stage of Neanderthal prestige through suffering stage; I was quite shocked when I found out different here on RBT. (A lot of what braindead but pompous cyclists like Franki-boy and Rideablot see as trolling is simply because I never bothered to become imbued with all that ancient cycling wisdom -- which is neither relevant, nor wise. As a consequence I don't even know that I'm sawing off one of their totem poles at the ankles until they start squawking. Not that knowing would stop me, of course. They're the ones out of step, not me.) You should read that entire thread, and elsewhere on the same forum where we discussed Berto's idea of regulating the correct tyre pressure whatever the load as 15% rim drop. Personally, I pump my Big Apples at the beginning of the month to 2.15bar with an electric pump with a presettable cutout, and ride them until the end of the month when they're down to about 1.6bar and none the worse for it. I don't see the point of riding on Big Apples or whatever pricey tyre floats your boat if it requires you to fuss with the tyre pressure more often than once a month. I've been riding Schwalbe's puncture resisting tyres for about 20 years now, and in another twenty the memory of the crappy, overpriced tyres I rode before will, I hope, start to fade.

Andre Jute
You don't have to be weird to be a cyclist, but it is a good start.

Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, October 17, 2020 at 4:44:21 PM UTC+1, Roger Merriman wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
It was fun reading again this old thread which Santiago has revived.
Since I asked the question, I had a decade and more of experience on
60x622 Big Apples, and I don't even consider other tyres. My replacement
Big Apples already stand on top of my bookshelf. On another forum I
published an extended set of experiences and opinions on the Big Apples:
In praise of riding low pressure tyres fast
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....16360#msg16360

Andre Jute
Chalo Colina is one smart cookie

On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 10:16:32 AM UTC+1, Santiago Perez wrote:
¿Big Apples similar to Marathons? Yes, they're both round. ;-)

I rate them as well, on my commute bike, a older MTB with panniers and so
on.

Do have a lovely ride quality for what is a hard wearing/glass shrugging
off tyre, and makes what is a heavy bike feel lively and fun to ride.

Would a MTB XC tyres give similar feel grip? Yes but it would also be
threadbare in under 4 months with the miles i clock up, and in probability
would get got by some glass/thorns etc.

It does though slide somewhat as my routes become wetter, even more than
things like Marathon plus Touring and the like, still passable but does
drift a bit, and yes MTB XC/Gravel tyres can just rail that stuff.

But they are as dependable as the Marathon plus touring, probably does wear
a bit faster but still fairly okay at 5k generally commute tyres don’t wear
out but reach a point of having too many war scars for me to trust anymore!

Roger Merriman

Mine made 8500km, c5000m, with the rear tire worn smooth and the front
still having tread all round. Schwalbe says one can wear the Big Apples
until the anti-puncture strip of rubber shows all round. I don't doubt
that is right, but I was unifying the differential service intervals
between components, so I fitted a new pair.

Andre Jute
Schwalbe, patron saint of cyclists

I don’t think I’d risk going so low!

The rear still has tread just not as much as when new or even compared to
the front, both are picking up war wounds, seems plenty of life thus far.

I tend to replace as needed and track using Strava oddly one of the things
that goes quite frequently is stuff like seat clamps, front wheel QR etc.

Roger Merriman