Daytime running lights seem more common.....

In the past year or so it seems to me that riders using daytime running lights
are considerably more numerous. Has anybody else noticed the same thing? Last
year at this time I think maybe one bike in ten had them, now it seems close
to one in three or four, at least on some days.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 23:56:08 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

In the past year or so it seems to me that riders using daytime running lights
are considerably more numerous. Has anybody else noticed the same thing? Last
year at this time I think maybe one bike in ten had them, now it seems close
to one in three or four, at least on some days.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

Over here I don't think I've ever seeing anyone with a white front
light but red "tail lights" seem to have become the norm.

But I do believe that anything that makes the bicyclist more
noticeable would be a good thing.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 10/4/2020 8:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 23:56:08 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

In the past year or so it seems to me that riders using daytime running lights
are considerably more numerous. Has anybody else noticed the same thing? Last
year at this time I think maybe one bike in ten had them, now it seems close
to one in three or four, at least on some days.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

Over here I don't think I've ever seeing anyone with a white front
light but red "tail lights" seem to have become the norm.

But I do believe that anything that makes the bicyclist more
noticeable would be a good thing.

Yes, I've noticed more DRLs. For one thing, every e-bike I encounter
seems to be running with its headlight on. But I see a few roadies
running daytime headlights, and more of them running taillights.

But I disagree with John's final sentence. A guy running a headlight
when out on a lonely country road in bright daylight? That's a "good
thing" only for the companies involved in the light sale. It does no
real good for the cyclist.

To this day, I've never seen a DRL that made a _practical_ difference.
In almost every situation, I've seen the bicyclist before the light,
whether headlight or taillight. The very few times I've seen the
headlight first, it was far enough away or in such a situation that it
couldn't have mattered - like when I glimpsed a friend's flashing light
through the trees as she stood on a sidewalk talking to someone.

Related: My article for our club's newsletter this month warned about
(non-StVZO) headlights glaring in people's eyes. I've already had three
people say "THANK YOU for writing that!"

DRLs are just the latest manifestation of "Oh, riding a bike is SO
DANGEROUS!" and the latest way of capitalizing on that baseless fear.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 21:45:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/4/2020 8:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 23:56:08 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

In the past year or so it seems to me that riders using daytime running lights
are considerably more numerous. Has anybody else noticed the same thing? Last
year at this time I think maybe one bike in ten had them, now it seems close
to one in three or four, at least on some days.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

Over here I don't think I've ever seeing anyone with a white front
light but red "tail lights" seem to have become the norm.

But I do believe that anything that makes the bicyclist more
noticeable would be a good thing.

Yes, I've noticed more DRLs. For one thing, every e-bike I encounter
seems to be running with its headlight on. But I see a few roadies
running daytime headlights, and more of them running taillights.

But I disagree with John's final sentence. A guy running a headlight
when out on a lonely country road in bright daylight? That's a "good
thing" only for the companies involved in the light sale. It does no
real good for the cyclist.

You missed the part about "makes the bicyclist more noticeable would
be a good thing"? Obviously if the cyclist is "more noticeable" there
must be those who would notice him/her/it.


To this day, I've never seen a DRL that made a _practical_ difference.
In almost every situation, I've seen the bicyclist before the light,
whether headlight or taillight. The very few times I've seen the
headlight first, it was far enough away or in such a situation that it
couldn't have mattered - like when I glimpsed a friend's flashing light
through the trees as she stood on a sidewalk talking to someone.

Strangely published studies show daylight running lights have reduced
the frequencies of both auto and motorcycle collisions and it must be
mentioned that the famous Odense Study demonstrated that even tiny
magnet powered fore and aft lighting reduced bicycle accidents.


Related: My article for our club's newsletter this month warned about
(non-StVZO) headlights glaring in people's eyes. I've already had three
people say "THANK YOU for writing that!"

DRLs are just the latest manifestation of "Oh, riding a bike is SO
DANGEROUS!" and the latest way of capitalizing on that baseless fear.
--
Cheers,

John B.

Am 05.10.2020 um 04:37 schrieb John B.:
Strangely published studies show daylight running lights have reduced
the frequencies of both auto and motorcycle collisions and it must be
mentioned that the famous Odense Study demonstrated that even tiny
magnet powered fore and aft lighting reduced bicycle accidents.

And other published studies (Germany) have shown "no benefit" for DLR on
cars.

On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 09:27:03 +0200, Rolf Mantel
wrote:

Am 05.10.2020 um 04:37 schrieb John B.:
Strangely published studies show daylight running lights have reduced
the frequencies of both auto and motorcycle collisions and it must be
mentioned that the famous Odense Study demonstrated that even tiny
magnet powered fore and aft lighting reduced bicycle accidents.

And other published studies (Germany) have shown "no benefit" for DLR on
cars.

Interesting. I had assumed that the EU, like many countries had
required always on daylight driving lights. In fact I read somewhere
that it has been a requirement on new cars for some years.
--
Cheers,

John B.

Am 05.10.2020 um 11:47 schrieb John B.:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 09:27:03 +0200, Rolf Mantel
wrote:

Am 05.10.2020 um 04:37 schrieb John B.:
Strangely published studies show daylight running lights have reduced
the frequencies of both auto and motorcycle collisions and it must be
mentioned that the famous Odense Study demonstrated that even tiny
magnet powered fore and aft lighting reduced bicycle accidents.

And other published studies (Germany) have shown "no benefit" for DLR on
cars.

Interesting. I had assumed that the EU, like many countries had
required always on daylight driving lights. In fact I read somewhere
that it has been a requirement on new cars for some years.

Exactly. Before mandating, Germany required a verification test. After
the failed varification test, Germany chose not to have a legal
requirement for DLR (but was forced to allow the usage of DLR; prior to
that, Germany required DLR or permanten lights-on on motorbikes and
disallowed use of lights when not necessary for cars, such as to
maximize the potential contrast between cars and motor bikes).

Europe requires that every new car has DLR fitted but only few countries
(like Sweden) have legally mandated use of lights at daytime if no DLR
is fitted or if DLR is switchable.

On 10/4/2020 10:37 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 21:45:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/4/2020 8:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 23:56:08 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

In the past year or so it seems to me that riders using daytime running lights
are considerably more numerous. Has anybody else noticed the same thing? Last
year at this time I think maybe one bike in ten had them, now it seems close
to one in three or four, at least on some days.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

Over here I don't think I've ever seeing anyone with a white front
light but red "tail lights" seem to have become the norm.

But I do believe that anything that makes the bicyclist more
noticeable would be a good thing.

Yes, I've noticed more DRLs. For one thing, every e-bike I encounter
seems to be running with its headlight on. But I see a few roadies
running daytime headlights, and more of them running taillights.

But I disagree with John's final sentence. A guy running a headlight
when out on a lonely country road in bright daylight? That's a "good
thing" only for the companies involved in the light sale. It does no
real good for the cyclist.

You missed the part about "makes the bicyclist more noticeable would
be a good thing"? Obviously if the cyclist is "more noticeable" there
must be those who would notice him/her/it.

Noticing a cyclist who is two blocks away confers no benefit. As I said,
I've never seen a situation where there was any indication the cyclist
would not have been noticed in plenty of time. We are not invisible.

To this day, I've never seen a DRL that made a _practical_ difference.
In almost every situation, I've seen the bicyclist before the light,
whether headlight or taillight. The very few times I've seen the
headlight first, it was far enough away or in such a situation that it
couldn't have mattered - like when I glimpsed a friend's flashing light
through the trees as she stood on a sidewalk talking to someone.

Strangely published studies show daylight running lights have reduced
the frequencies of both auto and motorcycle collisions and it must be
mentioned that the famous Odense Study demonstrated that even tiny
magnet powered fore and aft lighting reduced bicycle accidents.

Yes, and that study showed that the cyclists who were given those tiny
lights for free, as part of the study, reported even fewer SOLO bike
crashes. IOW, put the tiny light on your bike and you won't slip on wet
trolley tracks! It's magic!

Beware of "research" sponsored by a company selling the product being
"tested," especially if the test cannot be double-blind.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, October 5, 2020 at 12:37:26 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/4/2020 10:37 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 21:45:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/4/2020 8:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 23:56:08 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

In the past year or so it seems to me that riders using daytime running lights
are considerably more numerous. Has anybody else noticed the same thing? Last
year at this time I think maybe one bike in ten had them, now it seems close
to one in three or four, at least on some days.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

Over here I don't think I've ever seeing anyone with a white front
light but red "tail lights" seem to have become the norm.

But I do believe that anything that makes the bicyclist more
noticeable would be a good thing.

Yes, I've noticed more DRLs. For one thing, every e-bike I encounter
seems to be running with its headlight on. But I see a few roadies
running daytime headlights, and more of them running taillights.

But I disagree with John's final sentence. A guy running a headlight
when out on a lonely country road in bright daylight? That's a "good
thing" only for the companies involved in the light sale. It does no
real good for the cyclist.

You missed the part about "makes the bicyclist more noticeable would
be a good thing"? Obviously if the cyclist is "more noticeable" there
must be those who would notice him/her/it.
Noticing a cyclist who is two blocks away confers no benefit. As I said,
I've never seen a situation where there was any indication the cyclist
would not have been noticed in plenty of time. We are not invisible.
To this day, I've never seen a DRL that made a _practical_ difference.
In almost every situation, I've seen the bicyclist before the light,
whether headlight or taillight. The very few times I've seen the
headlight first, it was far enough away or in such a situation that it
couldn't have mattered - like when I glimpsed a friend's flashing light
through the trees as she stood on a sidewalk talking to someone.

Strangely published studies show daylight running lights have reduced
the frequencies of both auto and motorcycle collisions and it must be
mentioned that the famous Odense Study demonstrated that even tiny
magnet powered fore and aft lighting reduced bicycle accidents.
Yes, and that study showed that the cyclists who were given those tiny
lights for free, as part of the study, reported even fewer SOLO bike
crashes. IOW, put the tiny light on your bike and you won't slip on wet
trolley tracks! It's magic!

Beware of "research" sponsored by a company selling the product being
"tested," especially if the test cannot be double-blind.


--
- Frank Krygowski
I see riders all the time in broad daylight with headlights. Now I can see the rear red light but really if it is bright and sunny or daylight I just don't bother with either. I must though admit I am a total helmet mirror freak. i have to have a rear view mirror and I have the third eye on my helmet. I would not ride without it and sometimes I tend to live with my eyes on what is happening behind.

The odd thing about this is I am so used to it that when I walk on the MUP or run on it I wish I had a rear view mirror. I completely feel the need to have one then. In fact just going out for a walk. This could of course be due the to fact that I cannot turn my neck too far and when I do I get a bit dizzy feeling. Could also be because I have developed runner's dystonia and my running form is really erratic and unconventional. Now there is something to get.......runner's dystonia.

Deacon Mark

On 10/5/2020 3:52 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, October 5, 2020 at 12:37:26 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/4/2020 10:37 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 21:45:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/4/2020 8:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 23:56:08 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

In the past year or so it seems to me that riders using daytime running lights
are considerably more numerous. Has anybody else noticed the same thing? Last
year at this time I think maybe one bike in ten had them, now it seems close
to one in three or four, at least on some days.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

Over here I don't think I've ever seeing anyone with a white front
light but red "tail lights" seem to have become the norm.

But I do believe that anything that makes the bicyclist more
noticeable would be a good thing.

Yes, I've noticed more DRLs. For one thing, every e-bike I encounter
seems to be running with its headlight on. But I see a few roadies
running daytime headlights, and more of them running taillights.

But I disagree with John's final sentence. A guy running a headlight
when out on a lonely country road in bright daylight? That's a "good
thing" only for the companies involved in the light sale. It does no
real good for the cyclist.

You missed the part about "makes the bicyclist more noticeable would
be a good thing"? Obviously if the cyclist is "more noticeable" there
must be those who would notice him/her/it.
Noticing a cyclist who is two blocks away confers no benefit. As I said,
I've never seen a situation where there was any indication the cyclist
would not have been noticed in plenty of time. We are not invisible.
To this day, I've never seen a DRL that made a _practical_ difference.
In almost every situation, I've seen the bicyclist before the light,
whether headlight or taillight. The very few times I've seen the
headlight first, it was far enough away or in such a situation that it
couldn't have mattered - like when I glimpsed a friend's flashing light
through the trees as she stood on a sidewalk talking to someone.

Strangely published studies show daylight running lights have reduced
the frequencies of both auto and motorcycle collisions and it must be
mentioned that the famous Odense Study demonstrated that even tiny
magnet powered fore and aft lighting reduced bicycle accidents.
Yes, and that study showed that the cyclists who were given those tiny
lights for free, as part of the study, reported even fewer SOLO bike
crashes. IOW, put the tiny light on your bike and you won't slip on wet
trolley tracks! It's magic!

Beware of "research" sponsored by a company selling the product being
"tested," especially if the test cannot be double-blind.


--
- Frank Krygowski
I see riders all the time in broad daylight with headlights. Now I can see the rear red light but really if it is bright and sunny or daylight I just don't bother with either. I must though admit I am a total helmet mirror freak. i have to have a rear view mirror and I have the third eye on my helmet. I would not ride without it and sometimes I tend to live with my eyes on what is happening behind.

The odd thing about this is I am so used to it that when I walk on the MUP or run on it I wish I had a rear view mirror. I completely feel the need to have one then. In fact just going out for a walk. This could of course be due the to fact that I cannot turn my neck too far and when I do I get a bit dizzy feeling. Could also be because I have developed runner's dystonia and my running form is really erratic and unconventional. Now there is something to get.......runner's dystonia.

I do really like my eyeglass mirrors. I prefer them over helmet mirrors
because they work with any hat, or with none at all. Also, their
position relative to my eye is much more consistent, so they can be
smaller and less obtrusive. (I make my own.)

And I agree about wishing I had one at other times. I sometimes remember
to wear one while kayaking, since it helps me keep track of my wife or
other paddling partners.

As for running - well, maybe if I didn't have bicycles... ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski