Is it possible to weld a bike rim?

On 22 Sep, 13:43, jim beam wrote:
On 09/21/2009 10:46 PM, Chalo wrote:


At my shop, I can't get $80 for a rim-- so I use rims that cost less
and deliver more value. *I may sell to a lot of hipsters, but most of
them still work for a living.

Why should a rim that wholesales for $70 get a smaller markup than a
rim that wholesales for $15? *Just so the manufacturer can take more
of my customer's bike buying dollar than my shop does?

so not only are you a circus clown that doesn't know what they're doing,
you rip people off??? *what a ridiculous individual you are.

By providing the best product he can supply (the wheel) at an agreed
economical price? You're loopy. It does not matter what the
individual components are of the wheel if the end result is as good or
better than the more expensive option. A wheel is a wheel, it must
perform physically before any magical properties are bestowed upon it
by the application of the all important sticker. If a wheel can look
more attractive at the same time as being of the highest functionality
then I'm all for paying a little more, but not paying more for
appearance at a lower or questionable functionality. Most buyers
would do well to accept the decisions of their wheelbuilder as to what
he is happy using. If I was to require wheelbuilding, I would not
wish to economise on the labour, for it is the correct fitting of
components which make the difference between a good and bad wheel, not
any particular component (barring poor component sizing).

Chalo wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
Chalo wrote:
I work in a bike shop now. I look at the wholesale catalogs. Last I
checked, J&B listed the printed pattern sidewall Deep-Vs at $69 and
change, wholesale. At every shop where I have worked, that's a $139
or $140 rim. DT rims are $46 and change if I remember correctly.
That would be a $93 dollar rim at normal retail markup.
If you can get $140 for an aluminum bicycle rim, you're a
better man than I.

At my shop, I can't get $80 for a rim-- so I use rims that cost less
and deliver more value. I may sell to a lot of hipsters, but most of
them still work for a living.

Why should a rim that wholesales for $70 get a smaller markup than a
rim that wholesales for $15? Just so the manufacturer can take more
of my customer's bike buying dollar than my shop does?

Out here in the real world, the Velocity rims with any
volume are $60 to $65, rebuild with rim & spokes $110 to $130.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

AMuzi wrote:

Chalo wrote:

AMuzi wrote:

If you can get $140 for an aluminum bicycle rim, you're a
better man than I.

At my shop, I can't get $80 for a rim-- so I use rims that cost less
and deliver more value. *I may sell to a lot of hipsters, but most of
them still work for a living.

Why should a rim that wholesales for $70 get a smaller markup than a
rim that wholesales for $15? *Just so the manufacturer can take more
of my customer's bike buying dollar than my shop does?

Out here in the real world, the Velocity rims with any
volume are $60 to $65, rebuild with rim & spokes $110 to $130.

The only Velocity rims with any market support here are solid color
powdercoated Deep-Vs, and we sell most of them in the form of stock
wheelsets. But the ones we can buy piecemeal from our suppliers are
not priced such that we can offer them for $60.

I'll try to remember to get more specific numbers at work this
afternoon.

Chalo

On 09/22/2009 12:03 PM, Chalo wrote:
AMuzi wrote:

Chalo wrote:

AMuzi wrote:

If you can get $140 for an aluminum bicycle rim, you're a
better man than I.

At my shop, I can't get $80 for a rim-- so I use rims that cost less
and deliver more value. �I may sell to a lot of hipsters, but most of
them still work for a living.

Why should a rim that wholesales for $70 get a smaller markup than a
rim that wholesales for $15? �Just so the manufacturer can take more
of my customer's bike buying dollar than my shop does?

Out here in the real world, the Velocity rims with any
volume are $60 to $65, rebuild with rim& spokes $110 to $130.

The only Velocity rims with any market support here are solid color
powdercoated Deep-Vs, and we sell most of them in the form of stock
wheelsets. But the ones we can buy piecemeal from our suppliers are
not priced such that we can offer them for $60.

I'll try to remember to get more specific numbers at work this
afternoon.

ready, fire, aim! observe the logic and [lack of] brain operation of
the circus clown.

Chalo wrote:

AMuzi wrote:

Chalo wrote:

AMuzi wrote:

If you can get $140 for an aluminum bicycle rim, you're a
better man than I.

At my shop, I can't get $80 for a rim-- so I use rims that cost less
and deliver more value. *I may sell to a lot of hipsters, but most of
them still work for a living.

Why should a rim that wholesales for $70 get a smaller markup than a
rim that wholesales for $15? *Just so the manufacturer can take more
of my customer's bike buying dollar than my shop does?

Out here in the real world, the Velocity rims with any
volume are $60 to $65, rebuild with rim & spokes $110 to $130.

The only Velocity rims with any market support here are solid color
powdercoated Deep-Vs, and we sell most of them in the form of stock
wheelsets. *But the ones we can buy piecemeal from our suppliers are
not priced such that we can offer them for $60.

I'll try to remember to get more specific numbers at work this
afternoon.

From J&B Importers Sept/Oct 2009 dealer catalog. The following are
dealer cost:

Velocity Deep-V 700c rim
printed colors- digi Camo, teak wood, hippie floral, etc.: 69.99
solid colors- gold, lime green, etc: 44.99
black: 42.99

Velocity B43 700c most colors 56.99

DT 1.1 and 1.2 700c: 55.99

Mavic Open Pro 700c: black 51.99, silver 45.99

Mavic CXP33 700c silver: 46.99

Mavic A719 silver: 47.99

So what would you charge for these rims? At my shop, they would be
marked up the same amount as pretty much everything else.

Lest you simply dismiss J&B Importers as hopelessly overpriced,
compare the following prices for different rims from the very same
catalog.

Sun M13II black or polished: 17.49

Sun CR18 black or silver: 17.49

Sun Rhyno Lite 700c silver: 16.99

Weinmann DP18 (similar to Velocity Deep-V in shape, weight, alloy, and
construction):
silver: 12.99
black: 13.99
polished silver: 17.99

(J&B do not carry Alex rims.)

I'm going to reiterate my earlier assertion that when you buy Mavic,
Velocity, or DT rims, you do not get what you pay for. You might get
good rims (well, from Velocity or DT anyway) but you will pay far more
than you would to get comparably good rims from other manufacturers.

All that extra money buys a lot of marketing, and all that marketing
buys a lot of unfounded belief in the value of the high-priced rims.

Chalo

On 23 Sep, 07:52, Chalo wrote:
Chalo wrote:

AMuzi wrote:

Chalo wrote:

AMuzi wrote:

If you can get $140 for an aluminum bicycle rim, you're a
better man than I.

At my shop, I can't get $80 for a rim-- so I use rims that cost less
and deliver more value. *I may sell to a lot of hipsters, but most of
them still work for a living.

Why should a rim that wholesales for $70 get a smaller markup than a
rim that wholesales for $15? *Just so the manufacturer can take more
of my customer's bike buying dollar than my shop does?

Out here in the real world, the Velocity rims with any
volume are $60 to $65, rebuild with rim & spokes $110 to $130.

The only Velocity rims with any market support here are solid color
powdercoated Deep-Vs, and we sell most of them in the form of stock
wheelsets. *But the ones we can buy piecemeal from our suppliers are
not priced such that we can offer them for $60.

I'll try to remember to get more specific numbers at work this
afternoon.

From J&B Importers Sept/Oct 2009 dealer catalog. *The following are
dealer cost:

Velocity Deep-V 700c rim
printed colors- digi Camo, teak wood, hippie floral, etc.: 69.99
solid colors- gold, lime green, etc: 44.99
black: 42.99

Velocity B43 700c most colors 56.99

DT 1.1 and 1.2 700c: 55.99

Mavic Open Pro 700c: black 51.99, silver 45.99

Mavic CXP33 700c silver: 46.99

Mavic A719 silver: 47.99

So what would you charge for these rims? *At my shop, they would be
marked up the same amount as pretty much everything else.

Lest you simply dismiss J&B Importers as hopelessly overpriced,
compare the following prices for different rims from the very same
catalog.

Sun M13II black or polished: 17.49

Sun CR18 black or silver: 17.49

Sun Rhyno Lite 700c silver: 16.99

Weinmann DP18 (similar to Velocity Deep-V in shape, weight, alloy, and
construction):
silver: 12.99
black: 13.99
polished silver: 17.99

(J&B do not carry Alex rims.)

I'm going to reiterate my earlier assertion that when you buy Mavic,
Velocity, or DT rims, you do not get what you pay for. *You might get
good rims (well, from Velocity or DT anyway) but you will pay far more
than you would to get comparably good rims from other manufacturers.

All that extra money buys a lot of marketing, and all that marketing
buys a lot of unfounded belief in the value of the high-priced rims.

Chalo

I presume you actually sell a few of the DP18. How does the price to
which these are available to you compare to square hollow section
aluminium extrusion of similar dimensions as a small delivery (count
of five).

On Sep 21, 11:37*pm, Chalo wrote:
P. Chisholm wrote:

Chalo wrote:

I work in a bike shop now. *I look at the wholesale catalogs. *Last I
checked, J&B listed the printed pattern sidewall Deep-Vs at $69 and
change, wholesale. *At every shop where I have worked, that's a $139
or $140 rim. *DT rims are $46 and change if I remember correctly.
That would be a $93 dollar rim at normal retail markup.

Altho J&B, who delivers from Denver for free twice per week is great,
their prices are not.

Just checked their catalog..$44.99 for Deep V from J/B..not sure where
you are getting your $69.

That's for solid color powdercoated and anodized rims. *The sillier
colors here will cost you:

http://www.velocityusa.com/default.asp?contentID=550

I think I did specify printed pattern.

BTW, the wholesale price you cited is still $90 retail. *That's for a
non-eyeleted rim made of the weakest alloy commonly used in rims.

Whatever blows yer skirt up but I think DT, for example is the finest
rim made today(1.1, double eyelet). This from a shop that builds about
400 wheels per year, not one or two.

I'm sure the DT 1.1 is a fine rim. *What it does that the Alex R400
(for instance) doesn't do is unclear to me, and I build a lot of
wheels.

Does it make for a wheelset that works? Sure but a DT based wheelset
is 'better' in terms of roundness and flatness when new, which all
else being equal, makes a better wheel in terms of tension, which in
turn, makes a longer lasting wheel.

Umm... no. *It takes very little riding time (a week? a day?) to
"rearrange" spoke tension to the degree that the tiny differences
between a good build on a perfectly flat rim and a good build on an
almost flat rim no longer matter. *And a so-so build on a perfectly
flat rim is bunk compared to a good build on an almost flat rim. *I
think you overestimate the benefits the extra $50 or more buys you.

For my part, I have had "cheap" rims serve me for many years and "top
shelf" rims give up the ghost in weeks-- all else equal! *Same rim
weight and diameter, same riding load, same tension, same spoke count
and pattern. *That was what convinced me. *There is no advantage in a
Mavic rim being perfectly flat, as long as they do everything else
wrong. *There is no disadvantage in a Sun rim being less that
perfectly flat, if they get everything else right.

Small differences I know. I would have a much tougher time selling
Alex or Sun rims here in the republic as well. They aren't expensive
enough, no name recognition.

That's what counts, evidently. *That, and digital camo color
options.

Look, if ya like Sun and Alex, use them, sell them, build with them.

Thanks; I will.

I would rather sell DT or Velocity.

If your customers are happy to pay the cost, I can see why you would
prefer that.

Chalo

And for those customers at the shop you work at that are paying more
than a 'normal' margin, I guess they can live with that.

On 09/22/2009 11:50 PM, RonSonic wrote:
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:56:24 -0700, jim wrote:

On 09/22/2009 12:03 PM, Chalo wrote:
AMuzi wrote:

Chalo wrote:

AMuzi wrote:

If you can get $140 for an aluminum bicycle rim, you're a
better man than I.

At my shop, I can't get $80 for a rim-- so I use rims that cost less
and deliver more value. ?I may sell to a lot of hipsters, but most of
them still work for a living.

Why should a rim that wholesales for $70 get a smaller markup than a
rim that wholesales for $15? ?Just so the manufacturer can take more
of my customer's bike buying dollar than my shop does?

Out here in the real world, the Velocity rims with any
volume are $60 to $65, rebuild with rim& spokes $110 to $130.

The only Velocity rims with any market support here are solid color
powdercoated Deep-Vs, and we sell most of them in the form of stock
wheelsets. But the ones we can buy piecemeal from our suppliers are
not priced such that we can offer them for $60.

I'll try to remember to get more specific numbers at work this
afternoon.

ready, fire, aim! observe the logic and [lack of] brain operation of
the circus clown.

What? That he can't match online prices from a brick and mortar shop?

Gee, guess there's a lot of clowns out there. Like pretty much every retailer on
the planet.

no, he's been quoting bull**** prices he pulled out of his ass, and only
now is bothering to check reality here on planet earth. freakin' circus
clown.

On 09/22/2009 11:52 PM, Chalo wrote:
Chalo wrote:

AMuzi wrote:

Chalo wrote:

AMuzi wrote:

If you can get $140 for an aluminum bicycle rim, you're a
better man than I.

At my shop, I can't get $80 for a rim-- so I use rims that cost less
and deliver more value. �I may sell to a lot of hipsters, but most of
them still work for a living.

Why should a rim that wholesales for $70 get a smaller markup than a
rim that wholesales for $15? �Just so the manufacturer can take more
of my customer's bike buying dollar than my shop does?

Out here in the real world, the Velocity rims with any
volume are $60 to $65, rebuild with rim& spokes $110 to $130.

The only Velocity rims with any market support here are solid color
powdercoated Deep-Vs, and we sell most of them in the form of stock
wheelsets. �But the ones we can buy piecemeal from our suppliers are
not priced such that we can offer them for $60.

I'll try to remember to get more specific numbers at work this
afternoon.

From J&B Importers Sept/Oct 2009 dealer catalog. The following are
dealer cost:

Velocity Deep-V 700c rim
printed colors- digi Camo, teak wood, hippie floral, etc.: 69.99
solid colors- gold, lime green, etc: 44.99
black: 42.99

Velocity B43 700c most colors 56.99

DT 1.1 and 1.2 700c: 55.99

Mavic Open Pro 700c: black 51.99, silver 45.99

Mavic CXP33 700c silver: 46.99

Mavic A719 silver: 47.99

So what would you charge for these rims? At my shop, they would be
marked up the same amount as pretty much everything else.

Lest you simply dismiss J&B Importers as hopelessly overpriced,
compare the following prices for different rims from the very same
catalog.

Sun M13II black or polished: 17.49

Sun CR18 black or silver: 17.49

Sun Rhyno Lite 700c silver: 16.99

Weinmann DP18 (similar to Velocity Deep-V in shape, weight, alloy, and
construction):
silver: 12.99
black: 13.99
polished silver: 17.99

(J&B do not carry Alex rims.)

I'm going to reiterate my earlier assertion that when you buy Mavic,
Velocity, or DT rims, you do not get what you pay for. You might get
good rims (well, from Velocity or DT anyway) but you will pay far more
than you would to get comparably good rims from other manufacturers.

All that extra money buys a lot of marketing, and all that marketing
buys a lot of unfounded belief in the value of the high-priced rims.


that's it circus clown, keep investing in the bull**** like your
reputation depends on it! no reality data allowed to pollute that
zombie circus clown brain! ready, fire, aim!

On Sep 21, 2:52*pm, AMuzi wrote:
Chalo wrote:
P. Chisholm wrote:
Chalo wrote:
My assertion is that subtle differences in "consistency" do not merit
prices of 2x, 3x, 4x or more over functionally equivalent rims. *For
$80-140 retail per rim, you get _something_ perhaps (e.g. superior
flatness, or eyeballs painted on the rim, or European Heritage and
Mystique™), but nothing in proportion to what you pay.
No DT or Velocity is $140 per rim. Rather than DT or Velocity rims
being 'overpriced', I'd say Sun and Alex are artificially priced low.
I build many DT and Velocity rims and the most expensive is $85.

I work in a bike shop now. *I look at the wholesale catalogs. *Last I
checked, J&B listed the printed pattern sidewall Deep-Vs at $69 and
change, wholesale. *At every shop where I have worked, that's a $139
or $140 rim. *DT rims are $46 and change if I remember correctly.
That would be a $93 dollar rim at normal retail markup.

You might get a volume discount from your wholesaler and extend the
savings to your customers. *If so, good for you. *But that doesn't
make a $70 wholesale rim into an $85 retail rim, no matter how you
slice it.

Whatever blows yer skirt up but I think DT, for example is the finest
rim made today(1.1, double eyelet). This from a shop that builds about
400 wheels per year, not one or two.

I'm sure the DT 1.1 is a fine rim. *What it does that the Alex R400
(for instance) doesn't do is unclear to me, and I build a lot of
wheels.

If you can get $140 for an aluminum bicycle rim, you're a
better man than I.
--
Andrew Muzi
* www.yellowjersey.org/
* Open every day since 1 April, 1971- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

http://www.yellowjersey.org/cherchi.html

I see a whole lot of $130-$140 per rim prices on this webpage.

I have a pair of Mavic GEL280 in 32 hole. And one GL330 in 28 hole.
Brand new NOS. Are you doing consignments? I see you are advertising
$299.90 for a pair of GEL280 in 36 spoke.