Landis fails drug test

D'ohBoy wrote:
SSTW wrote, in part:
"The presence of a testosterone (T) to epitestosterone (E) ratio
greater than six (6) to one...

Actually, the threshold was reduced to 4:1 recently.

I thought it was the other way around- raised to 6:1 from 4:1.

wrote:
D'ohBoy wrote:
SSTW wrote, in part:
"The presence of a testosterone (T) to epitestosterone (E) ratio
greater than six (6) to one...

Actually, the threshold was reduced to 4:1 recently.

I thought it was the other way around- raised to 6:1 from 4:1.

Perhaps you're right - I have exhibited a dyslexic memory ;-).

Peter

In article om,
wrote:

D'ohBoy wrote:
SSTW wrote, in part:
"The presence of a testosterone (T) to epitestosterone (E) ratio
greater than six (6) to one...

Actually, the threshold was reduced to 4:1 recently.

I thought it was the other way around- raised to 6:1 from 4:1.

As far as I can make out according to the WADA Web site, the limit has
been 4:1 since 13 August 2004. At least the policy paper has that as
the effective date and refers to a "T/E value of 4." There's lots o'
palaver to wade through but nothing that says "4:1" (see quote below).

http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/d...ids_aug_04.pdf

Here's the bit that caught my eye:

"It is recommended that a urine Sample in which any one of the following
criteria is met during the Screening Procedure, be routinely submitted
to the IRMS analysis:

i) T/E value equal or greater than 4;

ii) concentration of testosterone or epitestosterone (equivalent to the
glucuronide) greater than 200 ng/mL;

iii) concentration of androsterone or etiocholanolone (equivalent to the
glucuronide) greater than 10,000 ng/mL;

iv) concentration of DHEA (equivalent to the glucuronide) greater than
100 ng/mL"

And a nice overview of doping methods and ways to try to beat the tests:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...avoid_positive

According reports from WADA released to the media, in 2005 cycling had
both the highest number of positive tests as well as the highest rate of
positive tests of the sports WADA tests, including track and field,
soccer, etc.

What I still haven't been able to find is whether testosterone provides
an immediate performance benefit. Floyd doesn't seem to have tested
positive in any other doping control at the Tour or before. If he'd
taken testosterone the night after the collapse on stage 16, would that
make a difference in his performance on stage 17? According to reports
in the media, after stage 16 Floyd was found to be quite dehydrated by
the team doc, who basically ordered him to drink tons and pour water
over himself throughout the next day. Would the reported 70 bottles of
fluid he went through on the stage make a difference (e.g., through
diluting his urine) on his test?

Or is he guilty as hell?

41 wrote:
That is, not in charge of checking for doping in cycling. Since he is
in charge of WADA and since the UCI is doing such poor job of it, and
since he can give very specific explanations of exactly what the UCI is
doing and not doing that is so suspicious, does he not have a point?
µ

Yeah, let Pound take over and hire lines of "readers" using secret
testing protocols to find people guilty, and no recourse. That will fix
things.

White socks, blank pants, national colors on jerseys, and wealthy
dilettante participants who (wait for it) take every advantage possible
in service of almighty egos? Which of course will serve up the
occasional victim for Pound, so he can look like he's "doing
something"? Not that anyone much will be watching...

Tell us more about those imaginary days when people participated in
sports purely for the love of participation, "41"! That was a good 'un,
we laughed right out loud. --D-y

Tim McNamara wrote:
In article om,

As far as I can make out according to the WADA Web site, the limit has
been 4:1 since 13 August 2004.

According to news reports, the normal is 1:1, the limit is 4:1, Landis
was 11:1.

According reports from WADA released to the media, in 2005 cycling had
both the highest number of positive tests as well as the highest rate of
positive tests of the sports WADA tests, including track and field,
soccer, etc.

What I still haven't been able to find is whether testosterone provides
an immediate performance benefit.

The first medical research on this was reported about a century and a
quarter ago. A physiologist ate or injected himself with a preparation
made from ground up animal testicles. He reported feeling more vigorous
and youthful, including the famous report that the arc of his urine was
higher.


Would the reported 70 bottles of
fluid he went through on the stage make a difference (e.g., through
diluting his urine) on his test?

No.
i

Tim McNamara wrote:
In article om,
wrote:

D'ohBoy wrote:
SSTW wrote, in part:
"The presence of a testosterone (T) to epitestosterone (E) ratio
greater than six (6) to one...

Actually, the threshold was reduced to 4:1 recently.

I thought it was the other way around- raised to 6:1 from 4:1.

As far as I can make out according to the WADA Web site, the limit has
been 4:1 since 13 August 2004. At least the policy paper has that as
the effective date and refers to a "T/E value of 4." There's lots o'
palaver to wade through but nothing that says "4:1" (see quote below).

http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/d...ids_aug_04.pdf

Here's the bit that caught my eye:

"It is recommended that a urine Sample in which any one of the following
criteria is met during the Screening Procedure, be routinely submitted
to the IRMS analysis:

i) T/E value equal or greater than 4;

ii) concentration of testosterone or epitestosterone (equivalent to the
glucuronide) greater than 200 ng/mL;

iii) concentration of androsterone or etiocholanolone (equivalent to the
glucuronide) greater than 10,000 ng/mL;

iv) concentration of DHEA (equivalent to the glucuronide) greater than
100 ng/mL"

And a nice overview of doping methods and ways to try to beat the tests:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...avoid_positive

According reports from WADA released to the media, in 2005 cycling had
both the highest number of positive tests as well as the highest rate of
positive tests of the sports WADA tests, including track and field,
soccer, etc.

What I still haven't been able to find is whether testosterone provides
an immediate performance benefit. Floyd doesn't seem to have tested
positive in any other doping control at the Tour or before. If he'd
taken testosterone the night after the collapse on stage 16, would that
make a difference in his performance on stage 17? According to reports
in the media, after stage 16 Floyd was found to be quite dehydrated by
the team doc, who basically ordered him to drink tons and pour water
over himself throughout the next day. Would the reported 70 bottles of
fluid he went through on the stage make a difference (e.g., through
diluting his urine) on his test?

Or is he guilty as hell?

This article says the ratio was lowered to 4:1 from 6:1, among other
things:

http://boulderreport.bicycling.com/2...e_specula.html

In article .com,
"41" wrote:

Tim McNamara wrote:
In article om,

As far as I can make out according to the WADA Web site, the limit
has been 4:1 since 13 August 2004.

According to news reports, the normal is 1:1, the limit is 4:1,
Landis was 11:1.

The average is apparently 1:1, but things like this are measured as a
"normal range" due to normal variability from one person to the next.
Generally speaking, one person's T:E ratio is stable unless there is an
underlying pathological condition or the person takes some kind of
testosterone supplementation. T:E ratios above 6:1 are rarely occurring
naturally but apparently can occur in certain pathological conditions.
In puberty- which doesn't apply here as Floyd is an adult- the ratio can
exceed 6:1 without a pathological condition or doping causing it. There
are tests available to differentiate between "physiologically high" and
"pharmaceutically high" ratios.

http://www.asada.gov.au/substances/f...stosterone.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...db=PubMed&list
_uids=8319366&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...db=PubMed&list
_uids=7931008&dopt=Abstract

http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/full/45/2/163

I was not pleased by Floyd stating he'd seek the assistance of a Spanish
doctor who has helped "hundreds" of athletes prove they have a high
natural level of testosterone. I would think that any rational cyclist
would be steering well clear of any Spanish doctors at the moment. I
did not find his statements reassuring.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...l06/jul28news2

On 27 Jul 2006 09:24:31 -0700, "bicycle_disciple"
wrote:

Aaah, finally something interesting. Landis fails a drug test after
stage 17 for abnormally high Testosterone levels. Its all over the news
today.




I have a book called "bringing up books" by Dobson. A gift from my
in-laws, he says in the book, that a person's Testosterone levels
increases significantly as they are 'winning'. In fact one can take a
blood sample of two tennis players before a match, and after, and
based on the level of T, you can figure out who won without ever
getting the score.

Think something like this is place? Just that something sounds very
weird when someone says they have illegally high testosterone levels.
Might fine many of us would be serving time.

later,

tom @ www. NoCostAds.com

Tom The Great wrote:
On 27 Jul 2006 09:24:31 -0700, "bicycle_disciple"
wrote:

Aaah, finally something interesting. Landis fails a drug test after
stage 17 for abnormally high Testosterone levels. Its all over the news
today.




I have a book called "bringing up books" by Dobson. A gift from my
in-laws, he says in the book, that a person's Testosterone levels
increases significantly as they are 'winning'. In fact one can take a
blood sample of two tennis players before a match, and after, and
based on the level of T, you can figure out who won without ever
getting the score.


If that's the case, why didn't any other top cyclists in the tour show
this high ratio? -B.D

Tom The Great wrote:
On 27 Jul 2006 09:24:31 -0700, "bicycle_disciple"
wrote:

Aaah, finally something interesting. Landis fails a drug test after
stage 17 for abnormally high Testosterone levels. Its all over the news
today.




I have a book called "bringing up books" by Dobson. A gift from my
in-laws, he says in the book, that a person's Testosterone levels
increases significantly as they are 'winning'. In fact one can take a
blood sample of two tennis players before a match, and after, and
based on the level of T, you can figure out who won without ever
getting the score.


If that's the case, why didn't any other top cyclists in the tour show
this high ratio? -B.D