Landis fails drug test

Tom The Great wrote:
On 27 Jul 2006 09:24:31 -0700, "bicycle_disciple"
wrote:

Aaah, finally something interesting. Landis fails a drug test after
stage 17 for abnormally high Testosterone levels. Its all over the news
today.




I have a book called "bringing up books" by Dobson. A gift from my
in-laws, he says in the book, that a person's Testosterone levels
increases significantly as they are 'winning'. In fact one can take a
blood sample of two tennis players before a match, and after, and
based on the level of T, you can figure out who won without ever
getting the score.


If that's the case, why didn't any other top cyclists in the tour show
this high ratio? -B.D

On 28 Jul 2006 17:22:59 -0700, "bicycle_disciple"
wrote:

On other instances, he was caught
screaming obscenities at other cyclists during the most crucial periods
of a race. Who knows the rest of his 'rap sheet'.)

What is your source for this?

bicycle_disciple wrote:
pinnah wrote:
"bicycle_disciple" wrote:
How can his glory be greater if he's stripped of his title and money?

If you had even a basic understanding of the Menonite church, you
would understand her comments. She is referring to the glory as
understood from the perspective of the Kingdom of God, not in terms of
human fame. Typically, this refers to rewards in Heaven but it may
also refer to a state of spiritual grace here on Earth.



-- Dave


Dave,

I read a little about the Mennonite church (your spelling seems to be
wrong). I understand that they are very conservative about their style
of clothing, and use of technology, like t.v, radio etc. They're also
against smoking or drinking. Ok ..

Landis loves cycling and he lives for it!

But from what his mother says of all this 'glory' and to what you're
testifying, don't you think all that's just hypocrisy, perhaps a way to
look 'good' on t.v? Landis has basically gone against all priciples of
Mennonite teaching - wearing cycling tights for almost half his life,
drinking alcohol (he supposedly celebrated the 17th stage victory by
downing J.D, and the night before, he drank beer to get rid of his
frustrations after the hills. On other instances, he was caught
screaming obscenities at other cyclists during the most crucial periods
of a race. Who knows the rest of his 'rap sheet'.)

Listen, cycling is one thing, church and religion is another. I wonder
how qualified Landis is for this glory in the 'Kingdom of Heaven' with
the things he has already done, and more importantly, if the B samples
go against him. He is famous, he might be rich, and he's tremendously
under pressure now. I'm sorry for him. -B.D

Clearly you didn't read enough regarding the Mennonites. When
Mennonite children come of age, they must make a conscious decision
whether to remain part of the Mennonite community and "congregation."
They are similar to the Amish in this respect where there is a period
where they get to experience life outside of their communities, ride
cars, use high technology, smoking, drink alcohol, or do whatever to
explore the "outside" world. At the end of this period they must
choose. To put it another way, one isn't "born" a Mennonite (in the
religious sense) just because of their parents, they must choose that
faith and that particular way of life.

It's clear Floyd chose another path when he moved to San Diego. Thus
there is no "contradiction" for him to drink alcohol (or swear) while
still retaining Mennonite core values of his upbringing. To accuse him
of a "rap sheet" to to completely miss the point.

Just because Floyd is a more complex and multi-dimensional individual
than you're capable of understanding doesn't _automatically_ make him
culpable of moral perversion, or some sort of furtive "religious felon"
with a "rap sheet."

And no religion is monolithic anyways. I'm sure you know Jews who eat
pork, Muslims who drink alcohol, etc. These activities don't imply
some sort of "renegade."

In article m,
"damyth" wrote:

And no religion is monolithic anyways. I'm sure you know Jews who eat
pork, Muslims who drink alcohol, etc.

you are talking about two different things: 1- religion 2-
practitioners/followers.
look at the catholic church for example. they have a pretty strict
dogma, on paper, but that doesn't really reflects the reality when it
comes down to the behavior of catholics. and if one religion qualifies
as monolithic, it's certainly catholicism.

41 wrote:
Tim McNamara wrote:

The first medical research on this was reported about a century and a
quarter ago. A physiologist ate or injected himself with a preparation
made from ground up animal testicles. He reported feeling more vigorous
and youthful, including the famous report that the arc of his urine was
higher.


Was this anywhere near the bygone era you were talking about when
sportsmen competeted for the love of sport?

No brifters, that's for sure! And SPOKE PROTECTORS, I bet they were
mostly like, cast iron or something, right? --D-y

Hi,

At Thursday 27 July 2006 09:24 in rec.bicycles.tech bicycle_disciple
wrote:

Aaah, finally something interesting. Landis fails a drug test after
stage 17 for abnormally high Testosterone levels. Its all over the news
today.

The discussion here so far has only addressed an unusually / abnormal /
possibly artificially elevated testosterone level. Since the criteria in
question is a ratio, that ratio being too high could also be caused by a
reduction of the "denominator," i.e., the epitestosterone level.


Randy

In article . com,
wrote:

41 wrote:
Tim McNamara wrote:

The first medical research on this was reported about a century and a
quarter ago. A physiologist ate or injected himself with a preparation
made from ground up animal testicles. He reported feeling more vigorous
and youthful, including the famous report that the arc of his urine was
higher.


Was this anywhere near the bygone era you were talking about when
sportsmen competeted for the love of sport?

Getcher attributions straight, bub, and don't attribute 41's posts to me.

In article ,
Randall Schulz wrote:

Hi,

At Thursday 27 July 2006 09:24 in rec.bicycles.tech bicycle_disciple
wrote:

Aaah, finally something interesting. Landis fails a drug test after
stage 17 for abnormally high Testosterone levels. Its all over the
news today.

The discussion here so far has only addressed an unusually / abnormal
/ possibly artificially elevated testosterone level. Since the
criteria in question is a ratio, that ratio being too high could also
be caused by a reduction of the "denominator," i.e., the
epitestosterone level.

Until the official numbers are released, we don't know. However, except
in the case of taking testosterone or a testosterone precursor, or the
case of a medical pathology, the T:E ratio is stable in individuals.

bicycle_disciple wrote:
On other instances, he was caught
screaming obscenities at other cyclists during the most crucial periods
of a race. Who knows the rest of his 'rap sheet'.)

I tried to find something like this on Google but got nowhere, the
closest being fans screaming obscenities at riders. Do you have a
citation?

Tim McNamara wrote:

I was not pleased by Floyd stating he'd seek the assistance of a Spanish
doctor who has helped "hundreds" of athletes prove they have a high
natural level of testosterone. I would think that any rational cyclist
would be steering well clear of any Spanish doctors at the moment. I
did not find his statements reassuring.

Well, ya gotta go with what works. On the other hand, there is still
the B sample, and the need to check out any possible relation to the
cortisone and other medication Landis was officially allowed, although
that all seems doubtful. It would be hard to tamper with the samples-
or at least one would hope. Lance doesn't have a high opinion of the
lab that did the A test:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jul 29, 9:22 AM EDT

Landis Says He'll Prove His Innocence

By PAUL HAVEN Associated Press Writer

MADRID, Spain (AP) -- His voice steady and his tone defiant, Floyd
Landis vowed he would clear his name of allegations he cheated to win
the Tour de France.

In his first public appearance since a testosterone imbalance showed
up in a urine test and cast his title into doubt, the American cyclist
said his body's natural metabolism - not doping of any kind - caused
the result, and that he would soon have the test results to prove it.

"We will explain to the world why this is not a doping case but a
natural occurrence," Landis said Friday from the Spanish capital.

Wearing a baseball cap turned backward and a white shirt with the name
of his Phonak team, Landis lashed out at the media for characterizing
his plight as a drug scandal and said he wanted to "make absolutely
clear that I am not in any doping process."

Later Friday, Landis' personal physician sought to clarify the nature
of the test result and the possible benefits of the hormone in
question.

"He does not have a high level of testosterone. That's not been
documented. He has a high ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone in
his urine," Dr. Brent Kay said on CNN's "Larry King Live."

Kay said the test could indicate elevated testosterone or low
epitestosterone, or some other factor - including handling or specimen
contamination. Kay, speaking from Los Angeles, also said that using
testosterone would hurt rather than help a cyclist.

"I think everybody needs to take a step back and look at what we're
talking about. Because testosterone is a bodybuilding steroid that
builds mass," Kay said. "It builds mass over long-term use of weeks,
months, and even years.

"And it's crazy to think that a Tour de France professional cyclist
would be using testosterone, particularly in the middle of a race. It's
a joke. Every sports medicine expert, physician, trainer, scientist
that I've talked to in the last day, have really the same opinion, 'No
way. This is a joke.'"

Landis, a native of Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, said he was
shocked when told of the initial result. He said he had been tested six
other times during the tour, and many other times during the year.

The aggressive tack Landis and his supporters took Friday was a
departure from his Thursday teleconference, when he said he expected to
clear his name but not his reputation, and had no idea what might have
caused the test result after the Tour's 17th stage.

Landis is still awaiting results from a backup sample, which would
clear him immediately. But his lawyer, Luis Sanz, said he fully
expected the backup test to come back with the same result, because the
testosterone imbalance was produced naturally by Landis' body.

The 30-year-old cyclist said Friday that he would undergo additional
testing to prove that "the levels that I've had during the Tour and all
my career are natural and produced by my own organism."

Until those tests are conducted, Landis said, "I ask not to be judged,
or much less to be sentenced by anyone."

But Landis saved his most defiant tone for the defense of his title as
Tour de France champion.

"I was the strongest guy. I deserved to win, and I'm proud of it," he
said.

Landis appeared to lose any chance of victory during a disastrous 16th
stage of the Tour, then broke out with one of the greatest performances
in history the next day. After winning the 17th stage, he submitted to
a drug test - standard for a stage winner - that showed an "unusual
level of testosterone/epitestosterone."

Phonak suspended Landis after the International Cycling Union notified
it Wednesday of the result, and he could stripped of his title and
fired from the team if he does not clear his name.

A homecoming parade planned for Landis next week in Ephrata, Pa., has
been put on hold pending more test results, organizer Rich Ruoff said
Friday. As many as 10,000 people and 500 cyclists were expected at the
event.

The news of Landis' test has rocked the cycling world, already under a
cloud following a wide-ranging doping investigation in Spain that led
to the barring of several of the world's leading cyclists from the
Tour.

On the eve of the Tour's start, nine riders - including pre-race
favorites Jan Ullrich and Ivan Basso - were ousted, implicated in a
Spanish doping investigation. Their names turned up on a list of 56
cyclists who allegedly had contact with a Spanish doctor at the center
of the probe. Landis was not implicated in that investigation.

Seven-time Tour winner Lance Armstrong said all he knew about Landis'
case was what has been reported.

"But I will say this," Armstrong told The Associated Press in a phone
interview Friday. "When Floyd was with us, there was never a problem.
We never saw anything even remotely off, never had a reason to suspect
anything. He left our team for a better offer. There was no suspicious
behavior, none. It's that simple.

"Secondly, I can't help but be aware the lab that found this
suspicious reading is the same one that was at the center of the
'L'Equipe affair."

The French newspaper, L'Equipe, said samples taken from Armstrong
during the 1999 Tour de France and then frozen tested positive for the
blood-booster EPO. The International Cycling Union commissioned a
report that later cleared Armstrong of the doping allegations.

"When an independent investigator contacted the lab, they wouldn't
answer the simplest of questions, wouldn't go into their testing
ethics, who did the tests, etc., etc.," Armstrong said. "I don't
personally have a ton of faith in that lab. I think they should lose
their authorization and the report pretty much supports that."

---

AP Sports Columnist Jim Litke in Chicago contributed to this report.o