Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park

Jim Roberts wrote:
Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
wrote:
Mike, your ignorance of wildlife and factless statements become irritating.
True.

While black bear attacks on humans are rather rare, as a carnivore, they can
and do attack humans from time to time. The probability of an attack is
measured in the 1 to 400 million or more (given the number of recreational
visitor days a year in black bear country).

I assume all of that is correct. I don't see it as
significant, one way or another. If you are in bear
country... *do* be concerned.

It isn't. But you don't have them where you live Floyd.

Guess what Dingbat, I grew up 1 mile from where that
particular bear attack happened.

As is common with you, you just stepped into another
pile of stink.

And by 2020 or so you won't have polar bears either.

You didn't read something right. Why are you always
just a little... off. Nobody is saying polar bears will
be gone by 2020.

The motivation for the attack
can range from protecting cubs (and yes I would suggest this is one of the
more common reasons),


Startling them.

That is almost as rare as protecting cubs as a
motivation for an attack (of which there are exactly
ZERO known cases). You need to get is straight, black
bears are not like brown bears.

That is common _only_ for brown bears.

No.

Wanna bet. Try finding *anything* which supports your
line of bull****.

to being startled or surprised by human (usually
hikers on a trail) appearing in their path,
Again, _only_ for brown bears.


No.
to viewing humans as a
competitor (i.e., protecting a food source)
Brown bears!
Black bears aren't anything like brown bears.


Very true, although some 'black bears' are brown.

And jimbat is a Dingbat.

Are you on the sauce again, that's usually why you
post to Usenet.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

On Sep 24, 3:42 pm, (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
Jim Roberts wrote:
Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
wrote:
Mike, your ignorance of wildlife and factless statements become irritating.
True.

While black bear attacks on humans are rather rare, as a carnivore, they can
and do attack humans from time to time. The probability of an attack is
measured in the 1 to 400 million or more (given the number of recreational
visitor days a year in black bear country).

I assume all of that is correct. I don't see it as
significant, one way or another. If you are in bear
country... *do* be concerned.

It isn't. But you don't have them where you live Floyd.

Guess what Dingbat, I grew up 1 mile from where that
particular bear attack happened.

As is common with you, you just stepped into another
pile of stink.

And by 2020 or so you won't have polar bears either.

You didn't read something right. Why are you always
just a little... off. Nobody is saying polar bears will
be gone by 2020.

The motivation for the attack
can range from protecting cubs (and yes I would suggest this is one of the
more common reasons),

Startling them.

That is almost as rare as protecting cubs as a
motivation for an attack (of which there are exactly
ZERO known cases). You need to get is straight, black
bears are not like brown bears.

It's hard to say if it was the sole motivation, but there are known
cases of a black bear sow with cubs attacking people. I'd hardly say
there's ZERO known cases. The following has several incidents,
including several which on the face of it sounds like a sow being
protective of cubs.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/news/issues/be...incidents.html

On Sep 4, 10:27 am, Bruce Jensen wrote:
On Sep 3, 11:00 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:





On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 12:00:50 -0600, "Ist-e Mundus, Furia bundus"

wrote:

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
.. .
What crime did the bear commit, that it deserves to die?! She was only
defending her cubs!

Mike

http://www.komotv.com/news/9538012.html:

Black bear attacks bicyclist in park

Story Published: Sep 2, 2007 at 4:14 PM PDT

Story Updated: Sep 3, 2007 at 7:33 AM PDT

By KOMO Staff

Watch the story
NEAR OLLALA, Wash. -- A man was attacked by a bear while mountain
biking in the Banner Forest Heritage Park just before noon on Sunday,
according to South Kitsap Fire and Rescue officials.

Spokesman Ron Powers said a 51-year-old Port Orchard man was biking
with his two dogs alongside him when the dogs ran ahead and around the
bend, then started barking fiercely. The man turned the bend and saw
the dogs were barking at a bear.

Powers said the bear immediately charged at the man, who tried to use
his bike to shield himself from the animal. But the bear managed to
injure the man's arm, back, neck and ear before he was able to get
back on his bike and ride away.

Down the path, the injured man ran into other mountain bikers, who
called 911.

The man was conscious and alert when he was taken to St. Joseph
Medical Center in Tacoma. The unidentified man is in serious
condition, but is expected to recover.

One of the man's dogs is still missing. It is not known whether the
dog suffered injuries during the attack. The second dog is said to be
OK.

Officials evacuated the park and shut it down in order to search for
the bear. Powers said if the bear is found, officials plan to kill it.
Officials said crews will search through the night until the bear is
found.

Another bicyclist who was at the park on Sunday told authorities he
saw mother bear and two cubs while riding on the trail.

Powers said Sunday's attack is a freak accident, stating black bears
rarely attack humans and, unless provoked or threatened, will run
away. The man or the dogs may have appeared as a threat to the bear,
who may have been protecting her cubs, Powers said.

Area resident Teri Nelson agrees, while bears are not uncommon at the
park, she didn't expect them to be aggressive.

"Attacking somebody would make me have second thoughts about walking
through this forest by myself," she said. "It's pretty scary."
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
fond of!

How do you know it was defending cubs? The article only says "may have
been", and that there was a report of a bear with two cubs. No guarantee it
was the same bear as "bears are not uncommon at the park". There you go
leaping to conclusions again, reaffirming your status as the primo number
one twit-extraordinaire on usenet.

It's a well-known fact that black bears don't attack humans, except to
defend their cubs. Do you think it was offended by the color of his
outfit?!

That bear was probably startled and surprised by the combination of
dogs and human on bicycle. It made a panicked decision to attack
likely based on something it was tryinig to protect. It certainly
does not sound like it was looking for trouble, and it probably would
make some effort to avoid this situation again (bears don't like
confrontation any more than you do).

Black bears, like most bears, will also attack a human (or other
possible competitor) to defend a cache of food, be it natural or
derived from human sources. Nonetheless, in most locations, including
national parks, authorities will rarely, if ever, remove a bear for
defending either cubs or food caches. The reasoning, which I believe
to be valid, is that, unless the bear attacks because he/she
specifically identifies humans as a food source (either because they
carry food or because they could *be* food), the bear then represents
no further danger beyond what would normally be expected. Bears who
behave in this way do not typically repeat attacks, and the original
attack can be boiled down to either stupid human tricks or unfortunate
happenstance. In this case, it counds like the latter occurred, and
it would have been unpreventable.

In this case, Mike is right. Unless there is some evidence that the
bear intended to make a meal of the biker, and based on the story it
certainly does not sound like it, there is no compelling reason to
kill it. It should be left alone. Dogs should be leashed, ample
signs should warn of bear presence, and bikers should do so at their
own risk.

Bruce Jensen- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Humans on bikes are fast and quiet enough to surprise quite a few
critters, as I have discovered. (no bears). Plus, from what I've read
(and seen once) dogs and bears don't get along that well.

On Sep 4, 5:29 pm, Bruce Jensen wrote:
On Sep 4, 1:46 pm, y_p_w wrote:

WTF?

Tell that to the family in Utah whose 11 year old was dragged out of
their tent and killed in June by a male black bear. Male black bears
aren't known for being protective of their cubs. Some are known to
attack cubs, which could include their own young.

Yeah, but we are not at this point talking specfiically about a male
or female bear. There is a reasonable chance that the bear in
question was a female with cubs, based on other testimony. At the
very least, it was surprised.


I'm sure the bear was an immigrant bear who crossed over our
undefended borders in order to steal the identity of a bear who was
born here so he could commit crimes and live on welfare and get the
state to educate his cubs and steal jobs from bears who were born here.

"y_p_w" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 24, 3:42 pm, (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
Jim Roberts wrote:
Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
wrote:
Mike, your ignorance of wildlife and factless statements become
irritating.
True.

While black bear attacks on humans are rather rare, as a carnivore,
they can
and do attack humans from time to time. The probability of an attack
is
measured in the 1 to 400 million or more (given the number of
recreational
visitor days a year in black bear country).

I assume all of that is correct. I don't see it as
significant, one way or another. If you are in bear
country... *do* be concerned.

It isn't. But you don't have them where you live Floyd.

Guess what Dingbat, I grew up 1 mile from where that
particular bear attack happened.

As is common with you, you just stepped into another
pile of stink.

And by 2020 or so you won't have polar bears either.

You didn't read something right. Why are you always
just a little... off. Nobody is saying polar bears will
be gone by 2020.

The motivation for the attack
can range from protecting cubs (and yes I would suggest this is one
of the
more common reasons),

Startling them.

That is almost as rare as protecting cubs as a
motivation for an attack (of which there are exactly
ZERO known cases). You need to get is straight, black
bears are not like brown bears.

It's hard to say if it was the sole motivation, but there are known
cases of a black bear sow with cubs attacking people. I'd hardly say
there's ZERO known cases. The following has several incidents,
including several which on the face of it sounds like a sow being
protective of cubs.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/news/issues/be...incidents.html

Again, there are zero known cases of bears attacking humans in order to
protect cubs. Just because there were cubs present doesn't mean that's why
the mother bear attacked. So no, the cases listed are not known cases of a
mother bear protecting her cubs.

On Sep 25, 4:22 pm, "Ryan Robbins" wrote:
"y_p_w" wrote in message

ups.com...



On Sep 24, 3:42 pm, (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
Jim Roberts wrote:
Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
wrote:
Mike, your ignorance of wildlife and factless statements become
irritating.
True.

While black bear attacks on humans are rather rare, as a carnivore,
they can
and do attack humans from time to time. The probability of an attack
is
measured in the 1 to 400 million or more (given the number of
recreational
visitor days a year in black bear country).

I assume all of that is correct. I don't see it as
significant, one way or another. If you are in bear
country... *do* be concerned.

It isn't. But you don't have them where you live Floyd.

Guess what Dingbat, I grew up 1 mile from where that
particular bear attack happened.

As is common with you, you just stepped into another
pile of stink.

And by 2020 or so you won't have polar bears either.

You didn't read something right. Why are you always
just a little... off. Nobody is saying polar bears will
be gone by 2020.

The motivation for the attack
can range from protecting cubs (and yes I would suggest this is one
of the
more common reasons),

Startling them.

That is almost as rare as protecting cubs as a
motivation for an attack (of which there are exactly
ZERO known cases). You need to get is straight, black
bears are not like brown bears.

It's hard to say if it was the sole motivation, but there are known
cases of a black bear sow with cubs attacking people. I'd hardly say
there's ZERO known cases. The following has several incidents,
including several which on the face of it sounds like a sow being
protective of cubs.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/news/issues/be...incidents.html

Again, there are zero known cases of bears attacking humans in order to
protect cubs. Just because there were cubs present doesn't mean that's why
the mother bear attacked. So no, the cases listed are not known cases of a
mother bear protecting her cubs.

The Jacksonville Zoo doesn't agree with your assessment.

http://www.jaxzoo.org/animals/biofac...nBlackBear.asp

Even Alaska Fish & Game say something about the possibility of a black
bear portecting cubs.

http://www.wc.adfg.state.ak.us/index...=bears.bearfax

"If Attacked · If a bear actually makes contact, you have two choices:
play dead or fight back. The best choice depends on whether the bear
is reacting defensively or is seeking food. Play dead if you are
attacked by a grizzly bear you have surprised, encountered on a
carcass, or any female bear that seems to be protecting cubs."

I'm not saying there's a whole lot to be afraid about black bears
(even with cubs). I came across one last summer and was cautious
without being scared. I've been told that typically they're "pansies"
and have heard of enough instances where black bear sows have
abandoned their cubs when faced with a threat. However - there's been
enough information that there have been occasional attacks when
someone has gotten between a black bear sow and cubs. I do realize
that a grizzly bear with cubs is a far greater danger.

"y_p_w" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 25, 4:22 pm, "Ryan Robbins" wrote:

Again, there are zero known cases of bears attacking humans in order to
protect cubs. Just because there were cubs present doesn't mean that's why
the mother bear attacked. So no, the cases listed are not known cases of a
mother bear protecting her cubs.

The Jacksonville Zoo doesn't agree with your assessment.

http://www.jaxzoo.org/animals/biofac...nBlackBear.asp

The zoo can say anything it wants. The research and anecdotal evidence
doesn't support the theory, though.

However - there's been
enough information that there have been occasional attacks when
someone has gotten between a black bear sow and cubs.

When?

In article . com,
y_p_w wrote:

Even Alaska Fish & Game say something about the possibility of a black
bear portecting cubs.

http://www.wc.adfg.state.ak.us/index...=bears.bearfax

"If Attacked ? If a bear actually makes contact, you have two choices:
play dead or fight back. The best choice depends on whether the bear
is reacting defensively or is seeking food. Play dead if you are
attacked by a grizzly bear you have surprised, encountered on a
carcass, or any female bear that seems to be protecting cubs."

You seem to "Confuse" Black Bears with Brown Bears here. The ADF&G
site you post is SPECIFICALLY talking about Brown Bears, and Female
Brown Bears with Cubs. This is a decidedly different senerio than
Black Bears and Female Black Bears with Cubs. Apple and Oranges,
Sir, Apples and Oranges........

Bruce in alaska who lives with both, as neighbors.......
--
add a 2 before @

On Sep 26, 10:50 am, "Ryan Robbins" wrote:
"y_p_w" wrote in message

ups.com...
On Sep 25, 4:22 pm, "Ryan Robbins" wrote:



Again, there are zero known cases of bears attacking humans in order to
protect cubs. Just because there were cubs present doesn't mean that's why
the mother bear attacked. So no, the cases listed are not known cases of a
mother bear protecting her cubs.
The Jacksonville Zoo doesn't agree with your assessment.
http://www.jaxzoo.org/animals/biofac...nBlackBear.asp

The zoo can say anything it wants. The research and anecdotal evidence
doesn't support the theory, though.

However - there's been
enough information that there have been occasional attacks when
someone has gotten between a black bear sow and cubs.

When?

I said that more than likely a black bear sow will do nothing, but
it's not as if the chances are zero. Excruciatingly rare? Yes.
Zero? No.

Massachusetts Fish & Wildlife:

http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/dfw_b...aqs.htm#prob14

"Black bear sows are extraordinarily tolerant-although uncomfortable-
of people who approach their cubs. A Michigan biologist reported that
only 4 sows chased away researchers during live-trapping and handling
of 300 bears."

Bear attack on a couple of bow hunters in Idaho.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/West....ap/index.html

"POCATELLO, Idaho (AP) -- A man armed with a bow shot and killed a
mother black bear that had attacked his son while she was protecting
her cubs.

Nolan Koller heard his son, Jason Koller, 29, yell for help while the
pair were elk hunting Saturday."

Pennsylvania Fish & Wildlife:

"Bears are mainly nocturnal, but they sometimes feed and travel by
day. Alert and wary, they tend to avoid open areas. Individuals are
solitary. While most bears will run from a human, a female with cubs
should be respected and on rare occasions might actually attack if she
feels her young are in danger."

Colorado Division of Wildlife:

http://wildlife.state.co.us/Wildlife...earCountry.htm

"In contrast to grizzly bears, female black bears do not normally
defend their cubs aggressively; but send them up trees. However, use
extra caution if you encounter a female black bear with cubs. Move
away from the cub; be on the lookout for other cubs."

y_p_w wrote:

I said that more than likely a black bear sow will do nothing, but
it's not as if the chances are zero. Excruciatingly rare? Yes.
Zero? No.

Probably zero.

Massachusetts Fish & Wildlife:

http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/dfw_b...aqs.htm#prob14

"Black bear sows are extraordinarily tolerant-although uncomfortable-
of people who approach their cubs. A Michigan biologist reported that
only 4 sows chased away researchers during live-trapping and handling
of 300 bears."

Interesting, but it does *not* support your claims that
black bears will attack to protect cubs.

Bear attack on a couple of bow hunters in Idaho.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/West....ap/index.html

"POCATELLO, Idaho (AP) -- A man armed with a bow shot and killed a
mother black bear that had attacked his son while she was protecting
her cubs.

Nolan Koller heard his son, Jason Koller, 29, yell for help while the
pair were elk hunting Saturday."

A lot of evidence there... all of it suggesting that
humans will attack bears to protect their offspring, and
none of it indicating the bear was protecting cubs.

Pennsylvania Fish & Wildlife:

"Bears are mainly nocturnal, but they sometimes feed and travel by
day. Alert and wary, they tend to avoid open areas. Individuals are
solitary. While most bears will run from a human, a female with cubs
should be respected and on rare occasions might actually attack if she
feels her young are in danger."

Whatever works to keep the tourons from getting into
trouble. But the *facts* are that the Pennsylvania Fish
& Wildlife have no evidence at all to support that
statement.

Colorado Division of Wildlife:

http://wildlife.state.co.us/Wildlife...earCountry.htm

"In contrast to grizzly bears, female black bears do not normally
defend their cubs aggressively; but send them up trees. However, use
extra caution if you encounter a female black bear with cubs. Move
away from the cub; be on the lookout for other cubs."

So they say it doesn't happen... and to you than means
it might happen. Interesting logic, but false.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)