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#311
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Why do some forks and frames have brake rotor size limits?
On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 08:00:49 -0700, Joerg
wrote: On 2017-11-03 17:47, John B. wrote: On Fri, 03 Nov 2017 07:53:04 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-11-01 19:23, John B. wrote: On Wed, 01 Nov 2017 13:56:24 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-11-01 13:39, wrote: On Wednesday, November 1, 2017 at 12:35:34 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: A lever is never supposed to bottom out before the brake force on respective wheel is maxed. If it did then he'd have faulty brakes and I am sure he'd not have posted this. The guys look like serious cyclists who know this. How old are you again Joerg? With even the old Campy brakes it was possible to bottom out the levers often without locking the wheels. I clearly consider that a faulty brake system. In Germany they would instantly disqualify a motor vehicle with such a flaw and not even let you ride it off the TUEV test site. But Jeorg, you aren't in Germany. So that makes it ok to tool around in traffic with faulty equipment? Goodness! You mean that if it isn't acceptable in Germany it is automatically faulty and absolutely cannot be used in the rest of the world? A vehicle where the brake force is not at absolute max with full actuation is faulty. Always. Somehow, I don't think that you are correct. So you honestly think that a bike where the levers bottom out while the wheels are still not locked up is "safe to go"? If that's true I am glad you are no longer maintaining aircraft. I have a very different philosophy about safety. Ah Joerg, such squirming about. You say that it isn't acceptable in Germany and I remind you that you aren't in Germany. You then argue that "it isn't safe to fool around in traffic with faulty equipment" and I ask you " Goodness! You mean that if it isn't acceptable in Germany it is automatically faulty and absolutely cannot be used in the rest of the world?" Now you are into brake levers and you have never answered the question of whether if it isn't approved in Germany it can't be used anywhere? So lets get back to the basic point. You imply that something that is unacceptable in Germany should not be used in the rest of the world and I say "Somehow, I don't think that you are correct." After we settle the question of German superiority we can get into the brake levers and all the other bumph. Or of course, we could discuss brake levers and ignore the whole question of what is approved in Germany as immaterial. -- Cheers, John B. |
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#312
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Why do some forks and frames have brake rotor size limits?
On 2017-11-04 19:07, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/4/2017 9:01 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, November 4, 2017 at 3:27:28 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-11-04 15:01, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Saturday, November 4, 2017 at 5:02:25 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: On 2017-11-04 13:50, jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, November 4, 2017 at 11:55:18 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-11-04 09:51, jbeattie wrote: [...] It's odd being on rim brakes after being on discs exclusively for the last four months, since my SuperSix bit the dust. I haven't ridden the bike much because its been raining, and I just got it, but I do worry about braking a spoke with the pads running so close to the rim. How can the pads get into the spokes? That could cause a major OTB crash. Poorly written. What I mean is that if you break a spoke and get a wobbly rim, then it's hard to clear the pads -- even with QR cams open. That's not a problem with discs. Yes, that is another reason for having disc brakes on MTB. After the first few hundred miles of serious use the rims wobble like those on Russian trucks. Even the rear rim of my road bike does, can't completely tension it out anymore. It's probably because of too much dirt road use and heavy loads. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ Is that your 600EX equipped road bike? It wasn't designed/intended for carrying loads on dirt roads. Abuse of equipment by doing so. It is designed for heavy use. When I bought it that was one of my requirements and, not surprisingly, the first questions the custom shop owner asked. A reason why it has wider rims than they usually do. If the wheel is knackered it should be replaced or completely respoked with a new rim. But then again, if you did that you won't have something else to complain about when that wheel finally does fail - probably miles into your ride. When have I complained about the rear rim? A vehicle built to travel on roads must be capable to continue travel on typical roads. Dirt roads are a typical part of a route in most parts of the world. Like in our area: https://goo.gl/maps/mDaf5Uv3t6N2 Of course you could say to yourself, well, I am on a bicycle which is an inferior vehicle so I better turn around and use the car instead. For me a bicycle is not just a rolling gym. It is foremost a transportation device. No, what we say is that an 80s Euro sport bike with what, MA2s or something like that and probably 32 spokes and a 600EX hub (just guessing here) is not the best wheel for hauling your 500lb CPUs on a wagon road. Plenty of people ride off road to get from one place to another, usually on more robust equipment -- like a trekking bike or a CX bike. It has 32 spokes and it was specifically equipped with extra-thick spokes after the custom shop inquired about my riding. Wasn't Jobst noted for taking his standard road bike on goat paths few mountain bikers would travel? That shows the standard equipment can handle such duty, if things are done right. The margin of safety is there. Thing was, Jobst was smart enough to travel light, and therefore stay within the margin of safety. Riding with such paltry amounts of water as he did was not smart at all. Much of the load I carry is ... water. Ok, and the occasional thermos with homemade IPA in there. ... I strongly suspect that if he had to schlep heavy equipment on rough terrain, he'd have built wheels that were up to the task. He certainly wouldn't have used wheels intended for light duty, then whined about how bad bicycle technology was. Jobst wasn't much of a whiner. AFAICT he was giving straightdope when he was peeved about something a manufacturer did wrong. So am I. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#313
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Why do some forks and frames have brake rotor size limits?
On 2017-11-04 21:41, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 08:00:49 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-11-03 17:47, John B. wrote: On Fri, 03 Nov 2017 07:53:04 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-11-01 19:23, John B. wrote: On Wed, 01 Nov 2017 13:56:24 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-11-01 13:39, wrote: On Wednesday, November 1, 2017 at 12:35:34 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: A lever is never supposed to bottom out before the brake force on respective wheel is maxed. If it did then he'd have faulty brakes and I am sure he'd not have posted this. The guys look like serious cyclists who know this. How old are you again Joerg? With even the old Campy brakes it was possible to bottom out the levers often without locking the wheels. I clearly consider that a faulty brake system. In Germany they would instantly disqualify a motor vehicle with such a flaw and not even let you ride it off the TUEV test site. But Jeorg, you aren't in Germany. So that makes it ok to tool around in traffic with faulty equipment? Goodness! You mean that if it isn't acceptable in Germany it is automatically faulty and absolutely cannot be used in the rest of the world? A vehicle where the brake force is not at absolute max with full actuation is faulty. Always. Somehow, I don't think that you are correct. So you honestly think that a bike where the levers bottom out while the wheels are still not locked up is "safe to go"? If that's true I am glad you are no longer maintaining aircraft. I have a very different philosophy about safety. Ah Joerg, such squirming about. You say that it isn't acceptable in Germany and I remind you that you aren't in Germany. You then argue that "it isn't safe to fool around in traffic with faulty equipment" and I ask you " Goodness! You mean that if it isn't acceptable in Germany it is automatically faulty and absolutely cannot be used in the rest of the world?" Now you are into brake levers and you have never answered the question of whether if it isn't approved in Germany it can't be used anywhere? So lets get back to the basic point. You imply that something that is unacceptable in Germany should not be used in the rest of the world and I say "Somehow, I don't think that you are correct." After we settle the question of German superiority we can get into the brake levers and all the other bumph. Or of course, we could discuss brake levers and ignore the whole question of what is approved in Germany as immaterial. What nonsense. This is _not_ about countries, this is about riding around on unsafe equipment and endangering self as well as others. It's just that some countries check this sort of stuff for some vehicles while in others they don't give a hoot and let the more careless people crash. Since you either don't understand it or don't want to understand, any further discussion about this with you is useless. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#314
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Why do some forks and frames have brake rotor size limits?
On 2017-11-08 15:17, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-11-04 19:07, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 11/4/2017 9:01 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, November 4, 2017 at 3:27:28 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-11-04 15:01, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Saturday, November 4, 2017 at 5:02:25 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: On 2017-11-04 13:50, jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, November 4, 2017 at 11:55:18 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-11-04 09:51, jbeattie wrote: [...] It's odd being on rim brakes after being on discs exclusively for the last four months, since my SuperSix bit the dust. I haven't ridden the bike much because its been raining, and I just got it, but I do worry about braking a spoke with the pads running so close to the rim. How can the pads get into the spokes? That could cause a major OTB crash. Poorly written. What I mean is that if you break a spoke and get a wobbly rim, then it's hard to clear the pads -- even with QR cams open. That's not a problem with discs. Yes, that is another reason for having disc brakes on MTB. After the first few hundred miles of serious use the rims wobble like those on Russian trucks. Even the rear rim of my road bike does, can't completely tension it out anymore. It's probably because of too much dirt road use and heavy loads. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ Is that your 600EX equipped road bike? It wasn't designed/intended for carrying loads on dirt roads. Abuse of equipment by doing so. It is designed for heavy use. When I bought it that was one of my requirements and, not surprisingly, the first questions the custom shop owner asked. A reason why it has wider rims than they usually do. If the wheel is knackered it should be replaced or completely respoked with a new rim. But then again, if you did that you won't have something else to complain about when that wheel finally does fail - probably miles into your ride. When have I complained about the rear rim? A vehicle built to travel on roads must be capable to continue travel on typical roads. Dirt roads are a typical part of a route in most parts of the world. Like in our area: https://goo.gl/maps/mDaf5Uv3t6N2 Of course you could say to yourself, well, I am on a bicycle which is an inferior vehicle so I better turn around and use the car instead. For me a bicycle is not just a rolling gym. It is foremost a transportation device. No, what we say is that an 80s Euro sport bike with what, MA2s or something like that and probably 32 spokes and a 600EX hub (just guessing here) is not the best wheel for hauling your 500lb CPUs on a wagon road. Plenty of people ride off road to get from one place to another, usually on more robust equipment -- like a trekking bike or a CX bike. It has 32 spokes and it was specifically equipped with extra-thick spokes after the custom shop inquired about my riding. Sorry, I meant to write it has 36 spokes. Wasn't Jobst noted for taking his standard road bike on goat paths few mountain bikers would travel? That shows the standard equipment can handle such duty, if things are done right. The margin of safety is there. Thing was, Jobst was smart enough to travel light, and therefore stay within the margin of safety. Riding with such paltry amounts of water as he did was not smart at all. Much of the load I carry is ... water. Ok, and the occasional thermos with homemade IPA in there. ... I strongly suspect that if he had to schlep heavy equipment on rough terrain, he'd have built wheels that were up to the task. He certainly wouldn't have used wheels intended for light duty, then whined about how bad bicycle technology was. Jobst wasn't much of a whiner. AFAICT he was giving straightdope when he was peeved about something a manufacturer did wrong. So am I. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#315
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Why do some forks and frames have brake rotor size limits?
On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 6:17:07 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-11-04 19:07, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 11/4/2017 9:01 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, November 4, 2017 at 3:27:28 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-11-04 15:01, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Saturday, November 4, 2017 at 5:02:25 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: On 2017-11-04 13:50, jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, November 4, 2017 at 11:55:18 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-11-04 09:51, jbeattie wrote: [...] It's odd being on rim brakes after being on discs exclusively for the last four months, since my SuperSix bit the dust. I haven't ridden the bike much because its been raining, and I just got it, but I do worry about braking a spoke with the pads running so close to the rim. How can the pads get into the spokes? That could cause a major OTB crash. Poorly written. What I mean is that if you break a spoke and get a wobbly rim, then it's hard to clear the pads -- even with QR cams open. That's not a problem with discs. Yes, that is another reason for having disc brakes on MTB. After the first few hundred miles of serious use the rims wobble like those on Russian trucks. Even the rear rim of my road bike does, can't completely tension it out anymore. It's probably because of too much dirt road use and heavy loads. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ Is that your 600EX equipped road bike? It wasn't designed/intended for carrying loads on dirt roads. Abuse of equipment by doing so. It is designed for heavy use. When I bought it that was one of my requirements and, not surprisingly, the first questions the custom shop owner asked. A reason why it has wider rims than they usually do. If the wheel is knackered it should be replaced or completely respoked with a new rim. But then again, if you did that you won't have something else to complain about when that wheel finally does fail - probably miles into your ride. When have I complained about the rear rim? A vehicle built to travel on roads must be capable to continue travel on typical roads. Dirt roads are a typical part of a route in most parts of the world. Like in our area: https://goo.gl/maps/mDaf5Uv3t6N2 Of course you could say to yourself, well, I am on a bicycle which is an inferior vehicle so I better turn around and use the car instead. For me a bicycle is not just a rolling gym. It is foremost a transportation device. No, what we say is that an 80s Euro sport bike with what, MA2s or something like that and probably 32 spokes and a 600EX hub (just guessing here) is not the best wheel for hauling your 500lb CPUs on a wagon road. Plenty of people ride off road to get from one place to another, usually on more robust equipment -- like a trekking bike or a CX bike. It has 32 spokes and it was specifically equipped with extra-thick spokes after the custom shop inquired about my riding. Wasn't Jobst noted for taking his standard road bike on goat paths few mountain bikers would travel? That shows the standard equipment can handle such duty, if things are done right. The margin of safety is there. Thing was, Jobst was smart enough to travel light, and therefore stay within the margin of safety. Riding with such paltry amounts of water as he did was not smart at all. Much of the load I carry is ... water. Ok, and the occasional thermos with homemade IPA in there. ... I strongly suspect that if he had to schlep heavy equipment on rough terrain, he'd have built wheels that were up to the task. He certainly wouldn't have used wheels intended for light duty, then whined about how bad bicycle technology was. Jobst wasn't much of a whiner. AFAICT he was giving straightdope when he was peeved about something a manufacturer did wrong. So am I. It now sounds like you're complaining about a wheel built by a custom shop, based on the description you gave of your riding conditions. Your complaint should not be against the bicycle industry in general. It should either be against the custom shop that built your wheel, or against your own description of your riding conditions. (I suspect the latter.) FWIW, I built new wheels for our touring bikes just before we set out to ride 4000 miles coast to coast. We carried full camping loads, and did at least 150 miles near the start of the ride, on the very rough C&O Canal Towpath. Our wheels are _still_ straight, ten years later. - Frank Krygowski |
#316
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Why do some forks and frames have brake rotor size limits?
On 2017-11-08 15:40, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 6:17:07 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: On 2017-11-04 19:07, Frank Krygowski wrote: [...] ... I strongly suspect that if he had to schlep heavy equipment on rough terrain, he'd have built wheels that were up to the task. He certainly wouldn't have used wheels intended for light duty, then whined about how bad bicycle technology was. Jobst wasn't much of a whiner. AFAICT he was giving straightdope when he was peeved about something a manufacturer did wrong. So am I. It now sounds like you're complaining about a wheel built by a custom shop, based on the description you gave of your riding conditions. Your complaint should not be against the bicycle industry in general. It should either be against the custom shop that built your wheel, or against your own description of your riding conditions. (I suspect the latter.) Where have I complained about the wheel build by the custom shop? Or was this another fake news story? :-) This custom shop did a stellar job. I'd like to thank them after riding this bike for decades but I don't have the invoice anymore and don't remember the name, just that it was in the city of Aachen, Germany. FWIW, I built new wheels for our touring bikes just before we set out to ride 4000 miles coast to coast. We carried full camping loads, and did at least 150 miles near the start of the ride, on the very rough C&O Canal Towpath. Our wheels are _still_ straight, ten years later. Well, you don't ride where I ride. I was that way since day one, when I saw a "forest autobahn" that would provide a shortcut I took it. Even my MTB rear wheel started a wobble after the first few hundred miles, one that could no longer be tensioned out via the spoke nipples. Comment from my LBS guy (a MTB competition rider): "That's kind of normal if you ride a lot" Just got the new 8-inch rotors from Jenson. Yeehaw! I need to find some screws and then they'll go on front and back. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#317
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Why do some forks and frames have brake rotor size limits?
On Wed, 08 Nov 2017 15:20:34 -0800, Joerg
wrote: On 2017-11-04 21:41, John B. wrote: On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 08:00:49 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-11-03 17:47, John B. wrote: On Fri, 03 Nov 2017 07:53:04 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-11-01 19:23, John B. wrote: On Wed, 01 Nov 2017 13:56:24 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-11-01 13:39, wrote: On Wednesday, November 1, 2017 at 12:35:34 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: A lever is never supposed to bottom out before the brake force on respective wheel is maxed. If it did then he'd have faulty brakes and I am sure he'd not have posted this. The guys look like serious cyclists who know this. How old are you again Joerg? With even the old Campy brakes it was possible to bottom out the levers often without locking the wheels. I clearly consider that a faulty brake system. In Germany they would instantly disqualify a motor vehicle with such a flaw and not even let you ride it off the TUEV test site. But Jeorg, you aren't in Germany. So that makes it ok to tool around in traffic with faulty equipment? Goodness! You mean that if it isn't acceptable in Germany it is automatically faulty and absolutely cannot be used in the rest of the world? A vehicle where the brake force is not at absolute max with full actuation is faulty. Always. Somehow, I don't think that you are correct. So you honestly think that a bike where the levers bottom out while the wheels are still not locked up is "safe to go"? If that's true I am glad you are no longer maintaining aircraft. I have a very different philosophy about safety. Ah Joerg, such squirming about. You say that it isn't acceptable in Germany and I remind you that you aren't in Germany. You then argue that "it isn't safe to fool around in traffic with faulty equipment" and I ask you " Goodness! You mean that if it isn't acceptable in Germany it is automatically faulty and absolutely cannot be used in the rest of the world?" Now you are into brake levers and you have never answered the question of whether if it isn't approved in Germany it can't be used anywhere? So lets get back to the basic point. You imply that something that is unacceptable in Germany should not be used in the rest of the world and I say "Somehow, I don't think that you are correct." After we settle the question of German superiority we can get into the brake levers and all the other bumph. Or of course, we could discuss brake levers and ignore the whole question of what is approved in Germany as immaterial. What nonsense. This is _not_ about countries, this is about riding around on unsafe equipment and endangering self as well as others. It's just that some countries check this sort of stuff for some vehicles while in others they don't give a hoot and let the more careless people crash. Well, if it is about riding and not countries why did you bring up the argument that it wouldn't be allowed in Germany? Since you either don't understand it or don't want to understand, any further discussion about this with you is useless. Of course I don't understand it. Here you are in America and arguing that "it wouldn't be allowed in Germany". Not germane at all. Unless, of course, California has become a province of Germany, that is. -- Cheers, John B. |
#318
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Why do some forks and frames have brake rotor size limits?
On Wed, 8 Nov 2017 15:40:40 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote: On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 6:17:07 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: On 2017-11-04 19:07, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 11/4/2017 9:01 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, November 4, 2017 at 3:27:28 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-11-04 15:01, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Saturday, November 4, 2017 at 5:02:25 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: On 2017-11-04 13:50, jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, November 4, 2017 at 11:55:18 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-11-04 09:51, jbeattie wrote: [...] It's odd being on rim brakes after being on discs exclusively for the last four months, since my SuperSix bit the dust. I haven't ridden the bike much because its been raining, and I just got it, but I do worry about braking a spoke with the pads running so close to the rim. How can the pads get into the spokes? That could cause a major OTB crash. Poorly written. What I mean is that if you break a spoke and get a wobbly rim, then it's hard to clear the pads -- even with QR cams open. That's not a problem with discs. Yes, that is another reason for having disc brakes on MTB. After the first few hundred miles of serious use the rims wobble like those on Russian trucks. Even the rear rim of my road bike does, can't completely tension it out anymore. It's probably because of too much dirt road use and heavy loads. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ Is that your 600EX equipped road bike? It wasn't designed/intended for carrying loads on dirt roads. Abuse of equipment by doing so. It is designed for heavy use. When I bought it that was one of my requirements and, not surprisingly, the first questions the custom shop owner asked. A reason why it has wider rims than they usually do. If the wheel is knackered it should be replaced or completely respoked with a new rim. But then again, if you did that you won't have something else to complain about when that wheel finally does fail - probably miles into your ride. When have I complained about the rear rim? A vehicle built to travel on roads must be capable to continue travel on typical roads. Dirt roads are a typical part of a route in most parts of the world. Like in our area: https://goo.gl/maps/mDaf5Uv3t6N2 Of course you could say to yourself, well, I am on a bicycle which is an inferior vehicle so I better turn around and use the car instead. For me a bicycle is not just a rolling gym. It is foremost a transportation device. No, what we say is that an 80s Euro sport bike with what, MA2s or something like that and probably 32 spokes and a 600EX hub (just guessing here) is not the best wheel for hauling your 500lb CPUs on a wagon road. Plenty of people ride off road to get from one place to another, usually on more robust equipment -- like a trekking bike or a CX bike. It has 32 spokes and it was specifically equipped with extra-thick spokes after the custom shop inquired about my riding. Wasn't Jobst noted for taking his standard road bike on goat paths few mountain bikers would travel? That shows the standard equipment can handle such duty, if things are done right. The margin of safety is there. Thing was, Jobst was smart enough to travel light, and therefore stay within the margin of safety. Riding with such paltry amounts of water as he did was not smart at all. Much of the load I carry is ... water. Ok, and the occasional thermos with homemade IPA in there. ... I strongly suspect that if he had to schlep heavy equipment on rough terrain, he'd have built wheels that were up to the task. He certainly wouldn't have used wheels intended for light duty, then whined about how bad bicycle technology was. Jobst wasn't much of a whiner. AFAICT he was giving straightdope when he was peeved about something a manufacturer did wrong. So am I. It now sounds like you're complaining about a wheel built by a custom shop, based on the description you gave of your riding conditions. Your complaint should not be against the bicycle industry in general. It should either be against the custom shop that built your wheel, or against your own description of your riding conditions. (I suspect the latter.) FWIW, I built new wheels for our touring bikes just before we set out to ride 4000 miles coast to coast. We carried full camping loads, and did at least 150 miles near the start of the ride, on the very rough C&O Canal Towpath. Our wheels are _still_ straight, ten years later. - Frank Krygowski The solution is, of course, solid steel wheels.... just like on my SUV. Admittedly a bit on the heavy side but then, one just doesn't worry about weight, does on. -- Cheers, John B. |
#320
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Why do some forks and frames have brake rotor size limits?
On Thu, 09 Nov 2017 07:39:34 -0800, Joerg
wrote: On 2017-11-08 21:36, John B. wrote: On Wed, 08 Nov 2017 15:20:34 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2017-11-04 21:41, John B. wrote: On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 08:00:49 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-11-03 17:47, John B. wrote: On Fri, 03 Nov 2017 07:53:04 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-11-01 19:23, John B. wrote: On Wed, 01 Nov 2017 13:56:24 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-11-01 13:39, wrote: On Wednesday, November 1, 2017 at 12:35:34 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: A lever is never supposed to bottom out before the brake force on respective wheel is maxed. If it did then he'd have faulty brakes and I am sure he'd not have posted this. The guys look like serious cyclists who know this. How old are you again Joerg? With even the old Campy brakes it was possible to bottom out the levers often without locking the wheels. I clearly consider that a faulty brake system. In Germany they would instantly disqualify a motor vehicle with such a flaw and not even let you ride it off the TUEV test site. But Jeorg, you aren't in Germany. So that makes it ok to tool around in traffic with faulty equipment? Goodness! You mean that if it isn't acceptable in Germany it is automatically faulty and absolutely cannot be used in the rest of the world? A vehicle where the brake force is not at absolute max with full actuation is faulty. Always. Somehow, I don't think that you are correct. So you honestly think that a bike where the levers bottom out while the wheels are still not locked up is "safe to go"? If that's true I am glad you are no longer maintaining aircraft. I have a very different philosophy about safety. Ah Joerg, such squirming about. You say that it isn't acceptable in Germany and I remind you that you aren't in Germany. You then argue that "it isn't safe to fool around in traffic with faulty equipment" and I ask you " Goodness! You mean that if it isn't acceptable in Germany it is automatically faulty and absolutely cannot be used in the rest of the world?" Now you are into brake levers and you have never answered the question of whether if it isn't approved in Germany it can't be used anywhere? So lets get back to the basic point. You imply that something that is unacceptable in Germany should not be used in the rest of the world and I say "Somehow, I don't think that you are correct." After we settle the question of German superiority we can get into the brake levers and all the other bumph. Or of course, we could discuss brake levers and ignore the whole question of what is approved in Germany as immaterial. What nonsense. This is _not_ about countries, this is about riding around on unsafe equipment and endangering self as well as others. It's just that some countries check this sort of stuff for some vehicles while in others they don't give a hoot and let the more careless people crash. Well, if it is about riding and not countries why did you bring up the argument that it wouldn't be allowed in Germany? Merely to show that bottoming-out brake actuators are considered a safety hazard by agencies or notified bodies. In Germany and some other parts of the world it is mandatory to have motor vehicles checked for that stuff, in others it isn't. And what in the world does Germany have to do with anything. Why, they can't even speak English. How can their opinions count for anything? It is unsafe no matter what and this was only an example. Since you either don't understand it or don't want to understand, any further discussion about this with you is useless. Of course I don't understand it. Here you are in America and arguing that "it wouldn't be allowed in Germany". It isn't allowed in the US either but in most states nobody ever checks. Until there is a nasty crash. Then the insurance lawyers will try to find out and (rightfully) sue and subrogate. Not germane at all. Unless, of course, California has become a province of Germany, that is. You seem to have a hard time understanding logic. No, not really. I just can't equate what they do in Germany with what is the proper thing to do in the U.S. I mean, a bunch of guys jumping about in leather shorts and drinking beer? -- Cheers, John B. |
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disc brake rotor size, 6 or 8? | Colin Song | Mountain Biking | 9 | October 28th 03 10:35 PM |
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