#21
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Badger South (who?) writes:
Remind me of what bike you ride? I'd like to look at a comparable pic to see the top tube geometry. Specialized Sequoia Expert, 2003. Sloping top tube. http://tinyurl.com/65zo5 When you gently push the bike forward by holding under the back edge of the seat, palm up, does it track (roll forward) straight without too much effort? If it does, I believe that's a good sign. If it doesn't, gee it may be user error. "without too much effort" is vague. Effort for whom? Unless the head bearing is bound up, I'm sure I could manage it even if there were no balls in the head bearing. My brother's bike when pushed forwards like this goes straight (he's got the same model, but two grades lower), and as you walk faster, it continues to do this. Mine a few inches, feet at the most, the h/b flop to one side or the other. Even if you gently angle or rock the bike ever so slightly to the opposing side to gentle it into staying straight, as soon as you do this it flops completely to -that- side. Don't even try to walk briskly with it. Given that I can walk his and not mine makes me think it's not me. If you say it flops randomly to one side or another and easily, then it seems to be operator error. If it flopped to the same side regularly I can imagine too short a shift cable or brake cable routing but you say it has no preference. Speed generally make this exercise easier and more stable. Are you sure you aren't putting us on? This is a difficult picture to imagine. How about the free rotation test? Was the bicycle crashed and bent the steertube or headtube. In that case there could be internal interference between steertube and headtube. The swing test would reveal that but an experienced eye could catch it better just by looking at the side view of the bicycle. I notice the fork has a curled offset and therefore the fork legs should be a straight line extension of the stem and headtube. If that is not the case, the steertube is bent. How did you crash when you broke your hip? Was it on this bicycle? Jobst Brandt |
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#22
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#23
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"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
... Peter Cole wrote: || "Roger Zoul" wrote || ||| Well, it's your opinion. I'm of the opinion that if I need to ||| stretch or eat or whatever, I'll get off the bike. I'm not a pro so ||| there's no need to do other things while riding. I don't need the ||| hassle of getting hurt needlessly. Income to protect, ||| responsibilities, etc. YMMV. || || There's nothing particularly hazardous about riding no-hands. It's a || useful skill, too. The only time I don't do it is when I'm in a pace || line. I don't use aerobars then, either. I think they're pretty || equivalent. I'll sometimes ride a 30 mile loop entirely in the || aerobars. I did it once no-handed just to see if I could. You road a 30-mile loop no-handed? I *rode* a 30 mile *road* loop no-handed, yes. I was bored, doing the same loop 3 times, just to pack some mileage before an upcoming ultra-ride. It was early on a Saturday morning in a suburban area, so there wasn't much traffic about. Not that it would have made much difference. A prior post compares riding no-hands to riding downhill at 35 mph. I do those things together fairly often (yes, 35 mph no-hands). I don't mean to give the impression that I'm reckless, I'm not. I've never had a bike crash in 10's of Kmiles and many years of all kinds of riding. I don't think it's all luck. I do a lot of club riding and find many other members to be absolutely horrible riders, to the point I won't ride with them. Funny thing is that they don't seem to realize how bad they are. This year, among them, there have been several serious crashes. I think this year's count is 6 or so, hospital time, broken bones, etc. One poor guy suffered a broken neck and is now paralyzed neck-down. Riding is serious business. The guy with the broken neck was left-hooked. Everybody should worry about that, that's much scarier than riding no-hands. I recommend reading the statistics and/or the better studies. Learn what the real hazards are. Pay attention, learn from any close calls, think about how to avoid them in the future. |
#24
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On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 11:47:55 GMT, "Peter Cole"
wrote: "Roger Zoul" wrote in message ... Peter Cole wrote: || "Roger Zoul" wrote || ||| Well, it's your opinion. I'm of the opinion that if I need to ||| stretch or eat or whatever, I'll get off the bike. I'm not a pro so ||| there's no need to do other things while riding. I don't need the ||| hassle of getting hurt needlessly. Income to protect, ||| responsibilities, etc. YMMV. || || There's nothing particularly hazardous about riding no-hands. It's a || useful skill, too. The only time I don't do it is when I'm in a pace || line. I don't use aerobars then, either. I think they're pretty || equivalent. I'll sometimes ride a 30 mile loop entirely in the || aerobars. I did it once no-handed just to see if I could. You road a 30-mile loop no-handed? I *rode* a 30 mile *road* loop no-handed, yes. I was bored, doing the same loop 3 times, just to pack some mileage before an upcoming ultra-ride. It was early on a Saturday morning in a suburban area, so there wasn't much traffic about. Not that it would have made much difference. A prior post compares riding no-hands to riding downhill at 35 mph. I do those things together fairly often (yes, 35 mph no-hands). I don't mean to give the impression that I'm reckless, I'm not. I've never had a bike crash in 10's of Kmiles and many years of all kinds of riding. I don't think it's all luck. I do a lot of club riding and find many other members to be absolutely horrible riders, to the point I won't ride with them. Funny thing is that they don't seem to realize how bad they are. This year, among them, there have been several serious crashes. I think this year's count is 6 or so, hospital time, broken bones, etc. One poor guy suffered a broken neck and is now paralyzed neck-down. Riding is serious business. The guy with the broken neck was left-hooked. Everybody should worry about that, that's much scarier than riding no-hands. I recommend reading the statistics and/or the better studies. Learn what the real hazards are. Pay attention, learn from any close calls, think about how to avoid them in the future. I'm always trying to be a better bike handler, and I only have some idea at how badly I suck at it. I can ride some pretty snappy rides, but I still have problems riding steadily, and have not learned how to do things like throw an empty water bottle into a trash can without bobbling my straight line. (I know, pretty sad) The other day I came up upon a sitch in traffic and thought to myself, 'man I could have eaten it there. A little voice in my head sez: "to a pro rider, that wouldn't even have rated a comment and he/she would have ridden right around that on auto". Yep. There is one place in my route where it takes a hard right and then is blocked with posts about 2 feet apart, then a road, then the same posts, and you're supposed to get off the bike and walk it across (or this is the gist I get). I ride between them. I'm able to do it pretty well with no bobbles but it still creeps me out b/c of the sharp turn you have to make to get in on the other side where the corridor to turn left and continue is narrow. I should be able to ride right through there smoothly. So, fellow noobs, if you're not doing it, folks, may I suggest working on bike handling. Watch how smooth and steady the pros ride in the peloton, even no-handed. Now it -is- ludicrous to compare one's self to the pros...after all you wouldn't be doing MS Flight Sim and comparing yourself to Chuck Yeager...but you can see what a great bike handler looks like riding. Take clinics, get your cycling club to give them in the park where it's grassy, learn how to recover from near-falls, etc. Getting in the miles and developing the stamina is not the only goal. Find a challenging trail with obstacles and stuff and practice there. Thx Peter, good post. -B |
#25
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"Badger_South" wrote
So, fellow noobs, if you're not doing it, folks, may I suggest working on bike handling. Watch how smooth and steady the pros ride in the peloton, even no-handed. Now it -is- ludicrous to compare one's self to the pros...after all you wouldn't be doing MS Flight Sim and comparing yourself to Chuck Yeager...but you can see what a great bike handler looks like riding. Take clinics, get your cycling club to give them in the park where it's grassy, learn how to recover from near-falls, etc. Getting in the miles and developing the stamina is not the only goal. Find a challenging trail with obstacles and stuff and practice there. I'm not sure that it makes sense for a newb to advise other newbs. Bike handling skills are great to have, but it's not the thing that saves your hide usually, good habits are. Handling is about reflexes, those take a long time to train. Habits are about education, the "do's & don'ts" of riding. The best way to develop reflexes is to exercise them doing things like MTB riding, you encounter situations there continuously that happen only once in a blue moon on the road/path. After learning effective braking, new cyclists are much better off spending time learning which hazards are most important and how to avoid them. There are excellent on-line guides for riding in traffic, there are also studies that summarize the causes of crashes, both on the road and on bike paths. Bicycling isn't a particularly dangerous activity, but the odds can be still greatly improved by avoiding bad habits. Unfortunately, those habits often aren't obvious or intuitive. I had a close call a few years back when a car pulled out of a stopped line of left-turners as I passed on the right (2 lanes, I was going straight). The pavement was wet, I braked, my rear wheel skidded, and I almost went down. I'm sure that if I hadn't done so much MTB riding I would have not recovered from the skid. I'm also sure that MTB braking skills had helped me panic stop without (almost) skidding badly. I had 2 similar experiences, one where I skidded (rear) across the width of a manhole cover (wet road, night, reverse camber, fast curve), another on freshly painted median stripes (rain, fast curve, winding road). In all 3 cases my reflexes prevented crashes, but better habits would have prevented the situations from arising at all. |
#26
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Peter Cole wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" wrote in message :: ... ::: Peter Cole wrote: ::::: "Roger Zoul" wrote ::::: :::::: Well, it's your opinion. I'm of the opinion that if I need to :::::: stretch or eat or whatever, I'll get off the bike. I'm not a pro :::::: so there's no need to do other things while riding. I don't :::::: need the hassle of getting hurt needlessly. Income to protect, :::::: responsibilities, etc. YMMV. ::::: ::::: There's nothing particularly hazardous about riding no-hands. ::::: It's a useful skill, too. The only time I don't do it is when I'm ::::: in a pace line. I don't use aerobars then, either. I think ::::: they're pretty equivalent. I'll sometimes ride a 30 mile loop ::::: entirely in the aerobars. I did it once no-handed just to see if ::::: I could. ::: ::: You road a 30-mile loop no-handed? :: :: I *rode* a 30 mile *road* loop no-handed, yes. Sorry about the typo....I've got a head cold that won't quit! I am also in awe! I was bored, doing :: the same loop 3 times, just to pack some mileage before an upcoming :: ultra-ride. It was early on a Saturday morning in a suburban area, :: so there wasn't much traffic about. Not that it would have made much :: difference. A prior post compares riding no-hands to riding downhill :: at 35 mph. I do those things together fairly often (yes, 35 mph :: no-hands). I'm impressed. :: :: I don't mean to give the impression that I'm reckless, I'm not. I've :: never had a bike crash in 10's of Kmiles and many years of all kinds :: of riding. I don't think it's all luck. I do a lot of club riding :: and find many other members to be absolutely horrible riders, to the :: point I won't ride with them. Funny thing is that they don't seem to :: realize how bad they are. This year, among them, there have been :: several serious crashes. I think this year's count is 6 or so, :: hospital time, broken bones, etc. One poor guy suffered a broken :: neck and is now paralyzed neck-down. :: :: Riding is serious business. The guy with the broken neck was :: left-hooked. Everybody should worry about that, that's much scarier :: than riding no-hands. I recommend reading the statistics and/or the :: better studies. Learn what the real hazards are. Pay attention, :: learn from any close calls, think about how to avoid them in the :: future. Good advice. In the left-hook case, was it with another rider or a car? BTW, I never had the impression that you were reckless. I think I'm going to work on learning to ride with no hands. I'm sure I can do it (I used to do it all the time as a kid), but after I went clipless I just felt it more prudent to not bother. |
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"Roger Zoul" wrote
I'm impressed. As Jobst often points out, no-hands becomes easier the faster you go. Good advice. In the left-hook case, was it with another rider or a car? It was another car. The road was a typical secondary road around here (Boston) with a lot of cross streets. Besides this crash, there have been 2 similar left hooks in the immediate vicinity where the cyclists were killed in the past couple of years. Left hooks are one of the most dangerous scenarios because of the high closing speeds. Right hooks are less often as serious except where trucks/buses are involved, unfortunately we've had a bunch of those, too. In this crash, the cyclist struck the side of the vehicle. I'm not sure, but my guess would be that he never saw the car. I don't know if it was a "but for the grace of God go I" situation, or if greater attention could have prevented it. My attitude is that if an oncoming car can left turn into my path, sooner or later one will, ditto for an overtaking car turning right, ditto for a car pulling out from a side street. Anticipating the worst-case has saved my bacon many times, I'm sure it won't in every case, but the close calls are rare enough that I trust the odds. |
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Badger_South wrote:
The other day I came up upon a sitch in traffic and thought to myself, 'man I could have eaten it there. A little voice in my head sez: "to a pro rider, that wouldn't even have rated a comment and he/she would have ridden right around that on auto". Yep. Emulating a pro's bike handling is not the best idea. Pros crash a lot. -- terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/ |
#29
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Peter Cole wrote:
As Jobst often points out, no-hands becomes easier the faster you go. I'll ride no-hands when putting on or taking off a jacket. This is a very useful skill that needs to be practiced. But I wish I could get better a riding no-hands uphill. I can do it on a gentle grade, but it gets increasingly difficult as the steepness increases. Taking off layers on a climb is a necessity, but it's not easy to do with at least one hand on the bars. 10 mph seems to be the limit, below that riding no-hands is tough. -- terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/ |
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