Bicyclist Fatalities in AZ 2009

On Dec 7, 8:21*pm, Dan wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:


Then you also talked about bailing out of the road entirely and riding
the sidewalk. *Did I get that wrong?

Yes, you got that wrong. *I said something to the effect that I would be
looking beyond the road and taking account of *all* my options. *But since
you now seem to be adding a sidewalk to your scenario, it's a considerable
option.

That's what I thought. So we put you down as a sidewalk cyclist.

And I know that doesn't bother you. I just wanted to make it clear,
so others understand exactly what sort of cyclist you are. It helps
them decide whether your views are worth considering seriously.

And later I think you talked about finding ways of never riding
there. *Correct me if that's not what you meant.

Are you kidding? *It's a hell hole.

I asked the question because the places I ride very frequently require
me to handle that situation. *I can't ride north to work, south into
the country, or west to go shopping without encountering that
situation, or one a lot like it.

Ouch! *Your world really sucks!

For me, it works just fine, Dan. For example, I always really enjoy
my ride to work. I've found that developing competence in traffic
works wonders.

Have you ever looked at the "Street Smarts" booklet?
Many states
distribute it for free, or you can find it online. *This section is
what we're talking about:
http://www.bikexprt.com/streetsmarts/usa/chapter2a.htm

Of you can get _Cyclecraft_ by John Franklin and read about Primary
and Secondary road positions.
There really is stuff you should learn.

That's what those people at the door keep telling me. *They have booklets,
too..

_Cyclecraft_ is a book, not a booklet. There are very few cyclists
who couldn't improve by learning what's in that book.

- Frank Krygowski

On Dec 7, 8:08*pm, RobertH wrote:
On Dec 7, 11:16 am, Frank Krygowski wrote:

If he were really to exercise good judgment, he wouldn't even try to
pass without leaving the lane almost entirely. *So my position *near
lane center won't bother a driver with good judgment, and it will
deter drivers with bad judgment.

Why not ride further left then? Right down the middle of a lane that
narrow puts you barely out of the door zone, if there are parked cars.
Wouldn't riding closer to the left side of the lane be more effective
at achieving what you say you are trying to achieve?

Or is there something else special about Right Down the Middle that
you want to talk about?

I don't ride in door zones, period. If there are parked cars, I'm a
good six feet away from them. Yes, sometimes that puts me at the left
side of the lane. This isn't difficult.

- Frank Krygowski

On 12/7/2010 11:37 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
I don't ride in door zones, period. If there are parked cars, I'm a
good six feet away from them. Yes, sometimes that puts me at the left
side of the lane. This isn't difficult.

If I had the proper bike for doing so, I would ride in the door zone:
http://www.outsideconnection.com/gallant/hpv/joe/MVC-007S.JPG.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On Dec 7, 9:34 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Dec 7, 8:21 pm, Dan wrote:

Frank Krygowski writes:

Then you also talked about bailing out of the road entirely and riding
the sidewalk. Did I get that wrong?

Yes, you got that wrong. I said something to the effect that I would be
looking beyond the road and taking account of *all* my options. But since
you now seem to be adding a sidewalk to your scenario, it's a considerable
option.

That's what I thought. So we put you down as a sidewalk cyclist.

And I know that doesn't bother you. I just wanted to make it clear,
so others understand exactly what sort of cyclist you are. It helps
them decide whether your views are worth considering seriously.


Wheeee! :-)

("Hello, hello
I'm at a place called vertigo")

And later I think you talked about finding ways of never riding
there. Correct me if that's not what you meant.

Are you kidding? It's a hell hole.

I asked the question because the places I ride very frequently require
me to handle that situation. I can't ride north to work, south into
the country, or west to go shopping without encountering that
situation, or one a lot like it.

Ouch! Your world really sucks!

For me, it works just fine, Dan. For example, I always really enjoy
my ride to work. I've found that developing competence in traffic
works wonders.


Get your kicks, baby :-)

("Doesn't matter what you do, you've nothin' to lose
I'm so awful god damn glad I'm not in your shoes")

Have you ever looked at the "Street Smarts" booklet?
Many states
distribute it for free, or you can find it online. This section is
what we're talking about:
http://www.bikexprt.com/streetsmarts/usa/chapter2a.htm

Of you can get _Cyclecraft_ by John Franklin and read about Primary
and Secondary road positions.
There really is stuff you should learn.

That's what those people at the door keep telling me. They have booklets,
too..

_Cyclecraft_ is a book, not a booklet. There are very few cyclists
who couldn't improve by learning what's in that book.


Or a book with even more positions than that ;-)

("walkin singin talkin smilin laughin diggin each other")

On Dec 7, 9:34 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:

snip the already snippeted other stuff


That's what I thought. So we put you down as a sidewalk cyclist.


There's a spot on one of my ways to work. A five-lane road plus bike
lanes veers right to intersect another five-lane plus bike lanes
road. There are big concrete islands and traffic signals and turn
lanes and it can be a long light on account of the State Hwy being out
that way.

But there's a curb cut on the far other left side just at it starts to
veer right, leading to a straight diagonal path to the left sidewalk
of the intersecting road waaaaaay up ahead. There's a cyclone fence
to the left of the sidewalk. (So this all happens in the dark, BTW,
and I'm now going down the left side of the street on the sidewalk :-)

If I get up there and the oncoming horde isn't there, the road's not
physically divided yet and, if the behind coming horde isn't there yet
and there's a good gap, I can catch air off the sidewalk (it's like a
good eight inch drop), fly across all five lanes plus and merge into
the bike lane way.

Seriously, it's like a straight shot bypassing the nasty controlled
intersection.

estelle more snippage

"Tºm Shermªn™ °_°" " wrote in
message ...
On 12/7/2010 6:53 PM, Tad McClellan wrote:
["Followup-To:" header set to rec.bicycles.tech.]
Edward wrote:
[...]
Yes, but that creates a complication for others since they will prefer
that
all the groups see the message, not just RBT. It is no fun to play
around
with headings for newsgroups.


It is perfectly acceptable to set a Followup-To header.
[...]

Just extra work for the responding poster to add the group(s) back. Of
course, what is unacceptable is setting follow-up headers to fake groups,
groups full of kooks, etc, in an attempt to trick potential respondents.

Tad sets himself up as technologically sophisticated, but you see how he
creates problems for others. It is why I am NEVER impressed by technical
experts since they are so dumb when it comes to understanding just plain
folks.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"Tºm Shermªn™ °_°" " wrote in
message ...
On 12/7/2010 3:58 PM, Tad McClellan wrote:
["Followup-To:" header set to rec.bicycles.tech.]
Edward wrote:
[...]
I still wonder what the advantages are
compared to Windows Mail?

I do not know what features Windows Mail nor Thundebird have, so
I cannot comment on that.

But in general, a purpose-built tool (Thunderbird) is better than
a jack-of-all-trades tool (Windows Mail).

Thunderbird does both email and newsgroups, but does not foul half the
posts up like Windows Mail does.

There is absolutely nothing connected with the computer and the Internet
that does not foul from time to time. Your Thunderbird will screw you too
sooner or later. Windows Mail does go berserk every now and then and if and
when it stops working altogether I will investigate Thunderbird. I will
admit I like Firefox much better than Windows Explorer.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"Tºm ShermªnT °_°" " wrote in
message ...
On 12/7/2010 8:22 AM, Duane Hébert wrote:
On 12/6/2010 9:21 PM, Tºm ShermªnT °_° wrote:
On 12/6/2010 10:08 AM, Duane Hébert wrote:

At home I use Outlook Express for a news reader.[...]

Bill Gates holding a gun to your head?


Huh?

Why would anyone use a Micro$oft product when better, free alternatives
are available? (Assuming that they are given a choice.)

For the sheer convenience! Every time I download an alternative, I am in
danger of ****ing-up my computer!

Let's face it, Microsoft is what made the computer what it is today, a
common appliance found in just about every home in America. Does Mr. Sherman
have an Apple Mac and/or does he use the Linux OS? I suspect not!

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

On 12/7/2010 7:51 PM, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:
On 12/7/2010 1:08 PM, Duane Hébert wrote:
[...]
Education is always good but there is a push here to get a couple of
questions on the driver test.[...]

Currently in most of the US, there are no re-occurring testing
requirements for licensing beyond vision tests.


I know. My last driver's test was my first one. Even moving
to Quebec, I just showed my US license to get a Quebec license.
But at least the kids taking their first test may see these questions.
And those taking driving courses may get some training. Here the actual
test is pretty difficult so most people take the course.

Putting information in journals etc. is good but there needs to be some
mandatory mechanism.

On 12/7/2010 7:54 PM, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:
On 12/7/2010 1:45 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
[...]
You put all this together, and you get a bicyclist riding as
far right as is safe and not impeding traffic, and you get cars
crossing the center line to go around -- which most do. In fact, cars
frequently cross the center line to pass me when I am riding on the
shoulder -- on HWY 101 on the coast for example. Very odd. It's like
a 12 foot passing distance.[...]

If I can get 20 feet of lateral clearance when passing a cyclist in a
motor vehicle, I will take it, since there is always the chance of a
diversion type fall.


We're having our first snow storm here. 32cm with heavy winds. Driving
home last night I was in traffic listening to the radio.
There were 4 incidents of cyclists falling and drivers were calling
in to talk about it. I guess there's nothing much to do when sitting
in bumper to bumper traffic for a couple of hours.

What I found unusual (beside the number of people riding in heavy
blowing snow) was that none of the callers
were bitching about the cyclists being on the roads. They were asking
the cyclists to be careful because they couldn't control their vehicles
well enough in this weather to be sure to avoid the cyclists.

I guess my point in responding to this post is that cyclists need to
ride defensively. You can't rely on the motorist to see you and be able
to avoid you.