Beyond the Autobahn: Germany's New Bike Highways

On Sunday, March 27, 2016 at 4:48:14 PM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
Phil W Lee wrote:
Phil W Lee considered Sat, 26 Mar 2016
21:14:42 +0000 the perfect time to write:

Frank Krygowski considered Sat, 26 Mar 2016
10:35:24 -0400 the perfect time to write:

On 3/26/2016 8:11 AM, Duane wrote:

I think it's not that they're anti-anything-bicycle related but that
they're anti-anything-that-differentiates-bicycles-from car related.

Most people here understand the pluses and minuses of bike infrastructure
but only a few oppose it by rote.

OK, how many here are personally responsible for the addition of bike
facilities in their area?

Me, I'm responsible for three so far - two of them individually
(including one that added at least a hundred thousand dollars to a
project) and one done by a committee of six that I was on. And I've
done volunteer maintenance work on a fourth one.

Yet some people - for example, two Canadians - still maintain the
fiction that I'm opposing all bike facilities "by rote."

The _real_ difference is this: I do not believe that any bike facility
is a good bike facility. But I've certainly run into "bike advocates"
who think that way. Those are the ones who look at facilities like the
Cycle Facility of the Month
http://www.warringtoncyclecampaign.c...-of-the-month/
and say "Well, at least they've done something for us."


Although I'm not Canadian...

OK. But you live and work and ride in Canada. Sorry I don't know your legal
citizenship status.

I guess Frank is bitching about my post.

Yes, yours and Sir's. You and he mischaracterize my positions, accusing me of
being 100% against any bike facility. Yet I've done the work to get several
built, and you have not.

Funny,
I don't remember mentioning his name nor do I particularly care what he
thinks about cycling infrastructure.

Yet you argue against what you pretend to be my position.

What have I done for cycling? Me personally? I won't claim to have single
handedly done anything.

Noted!

As a member of Velo-Québec we forced them to
remove a center lane bike lane from Camellien Houde.

Oh please! You paid dues to an organization that did the work. That's a far
cry from doing the work yourself - attending countless committee meetings,
forging alliances, purchasing and reading the design guides, learning about
facility design, helping write grants, writing letters, making phone calls
to officials, doing manual labor and all the rest.

I've done all that, and as a result, I've personally made a difference. I've
done more than that. Hell, if paying dues really counts for anything, I've
done that for decades as well, to several advocacy organizations.

Don't mischaracterize my positions. Don't pretend I'm against every type
of cycling facility. I know about defective designs, both from purchasing
and reading the standards, and by experience. If I complain about bad designs,
it's from a position of knowledge. It's not because I claim there are no
good designs.

- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, March 27, 2016 at 5:13:33 PM UTC-4, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

I no longer read any of Frank's rants.

:-)

Mention that you bailed off a road at a very narrow bridge because 18 wheelers were barrelling down on you and closing rapidly and Frank will respond that you should have stayed lane ceter, the trucks would have had to slow and that you're a "scardy cat" because you bailed and that you shouldn't be riding on the roads.

If you're going to pretend to quote me, at least get the spelling right! I
never used the term "scaredy cat," let alone "scardy cat." And I certainly
never said you shouldn't ride on the roads.

What I _did_ say is that there have been countless times I've taken the lane
in front of trucks "barreling down." They have always slowed and waited until
it was safe to pass. So yes, I suspect the same would have happened in your
case. I certainly don't think it's wise to steer off the road at high speed,
as you said you did.

Mention anything promoting bicycle infrastructure, such as I did at the beginning of THIS thread and Frank will soon appear and attack it.

That is the specific point I was addressing above. I've gotten bike
infrastructure built. What have you done?

I really do wonder if he's done even a tenth of what he claims to have.

What have you done?

- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, March 27, 2016 at 9:39:40 PM UTC-4, Radey Shouman wrote:
Sir Ridesalot writes:

On Friday, March 25, 2016 at 8:14:21 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, March 25, 2016 at 4:56:15 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
Joy Beeson writes:

On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 15:29:52 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

Notice that the confusion was in the minds of the *car drivers*.

But it is bike riders who would be killed by car drivers who are
confused into staying out of the right-turn lane until they swerve
across it without notice.

Bike riders *were* worse off with the initial crack at bike lanes -- the
original street, sans markings, was not bad. Having two lanes of cars
playing chicken over the right to turn right was decidedly worse.

The next revision added dashed lines for some distance before the right
turn, giving all parties, drivers and riders, a clue as to how to safely
proceed. Frank was arguing that the entire bike lane should be marked
with dashed lines. If I know the drivers in my locale (Massachusetts),
this would have prompted drivers to try to form two lanes instead of
one, and chaos would have ensued.

The street is wide enough for two lanes of car traffic, having been
slated, back in the days of urban renewal, to be a kind of inner-city
expressway. Fortunately, protests prevented that plan from coming to
fruition.

Any confusion would be cleared up by reading the law, but that is always asking too much. No cars in bike lane (thus the solid white line). Bikes may leave the lane to pass or to avoid hazards. In California, cars may enter the bike lane at a designated distance to make right turns -- not in Oregon. Here, cars may turn across the bike lane but may not occupy the lane before a turn. They often do.

We should have a special bike lane only paint stripe. Maybe it should be little peace signs or paisleys -- rainbow colors! See if you can spot the bike lane in this pictu http://cache-graphicslib.viator.com/...11-770tall.jpg

-- Jay Beattie.

You should give up with these guys Jay. Some are so
anti-anything-bicycle related that they'll never see let alone agree
to anything that might encouage better bicycling in busy areas. Their
mantra seems to be "Take the lane and take your chances".

That's unreasonable. I described two iterations of a bike facility, and
why the later one worked significantly better than the earlier.

--

I wasn't referring to you Radey. I was referring to our resident Troll who is rabidly anti-bicycling facilities and helmets. BTW, I no longer read anything the Trolls here post.

Cheers