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OK, I'll question the isotope test.



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 12th 06, 07:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
wimpyVO2
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Posts: 49
Default OK, I'll question the isotope test.

Zoom in and look at Chart 6

http://wwwrcamnl.wr.usgs.gov/isoig/p...ouse2003_B.pdf

Travel from the United States to Europe will increase your carbon-13
delta from -17 to -21, due to variations in local foods.

And I'm supposed to believe that Floyd's carbon-13 results can only be
explained by doping?

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  #2  
Old August 12th 06, 08:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Stu Fleming
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Posts: 317
Default OK, I'll question the isotope test.

wimpyVO2 wrote:
Zoom in and look at Chart 6

http://wwwrcamnl.wr.usgs.gov/isoig/p...ouse2003_B.pdf

Travel from the United States to Europe will increase your carbon-13
delta from -17 to -21, due to variations in local foods.


Yeah and now the dehydration on the flight will get ya too.
  #3  
Old August 12th 06, 09:22 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Donald Munro
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Posts: 4,811
Default OK, I'll question the isotope test.

wimpyVO2 wrote:
Travel from the United States to Europe will increase your carbon-13
delta from -17 to -21, due to variations in local foods.


Stu Fleming wrote:
Yeah and now the dehydration on the flight will get ya too.


And if it doesn't the liquids might.

  #4  
Old August 12th 06, 04:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
[email protected]
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Posts: 3
Default OK, I'll question the isotope test.

The variability for the del 13C is really not very much at all...review
of the differences reveal about 2 permil (2 parts pre thousand) for all
the people who worked on the project (it appears the researchers were
primarily Asian...) I doubt that all of these people exist on the same
diet. The chart indicates the del 13C for the diet of people living in
the US varies by about 1 permil. So, the results are actually quite
predictable given diet. BTW...have the del 13C results for Landis been
posted w/# for natural vs. synthetic?

- Fred B.



wimpyVO2 wrote:
Zoom in and look at Chart 6

http://wwwrcamnl.wr.usgs.gov/isoig/p...ouse2003_B.pdf

Travel from the United States to Europe will increase your carbon-13
delta from -17 to -21, due to variations in local foods.

And I'm supposed to believe that Floyd's carbon-13 results can only be
explained by doping?


  #8  
Old August 14th 06, 10:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
gds
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Posts: 375
Default OK, I'll question the isotope test.


Tom_A wrote:
wrote:
In addition, the background against which the 13C:12C ratio of
testosterone is compared is another endogenous steroid, produced from
the same precursors. Whether or not diet alters the ratio therefore
isn't the question, the question is whether it alters it
*differentially* compared to the "standard".

Andy Coggan


According to WADA's own study, apparently it can, and quickly too.

http://www.bgc-jena.mpg.de/service/i..._Abstracts.pdf

I also found it interesting that the "did not exceed 3%" statement was
crossed out....hmmmm, I wonder what that means...


It looks like it may be a printing/publishing issue. Since that is also
in CAPS it may be intended to be underlined for emphasis. It is
unlikely that in the papers of a conference there would be strikeouts.

  #9  
Old August 14th 06, 10:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default OK, I'll question the isotope test.

wimpyVO2 wrote:
Zoom in and look at Chart 6

http://wwwrcamnl.wr.usgs.gov/isoig/p...ouse2003_B.pdf

Travel from the United States to Europe will increase your carbon-13
delta from -17 to -21, due to variations in local foods.

And I'm supposed to believe that Floyd's carbon-13 results can only be
explained by doping?



I've tested positive on the isotope test. Twice. And I didn't dope.
On second test, I had to pay out of my own pocket. I'm no longer an
athlete (was never even close to being a professional one when I went
positive) and the second test was 4 months ago. I can see how people
could question the first one. But the more recent one? Like I would
need to dope in order to drink beer and surf up internet porn. Use
some common sense folks. If doping is one but not the only
explanation, then you've got to perform some additional tests and
narrow it down and be certain.

In a way, I hope Floyd is guilty. I would truly hate to think that
someone who was actually talented and making a living competing clean
was tagged due to someone half-assing the test and interpretation. At
least I was not talented and it doesn't really affect me ('cept I'm out
a good chunk of cash). If I was talented, I would be so ****ed that I
would most certainly write another paragraph.

  #10  
Old August 14th 06, 10:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
[email protected]
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Posts: 119
Default OK, I'll question the isotope test.

Tom_A wrote:
wrote:
In addition, the background against which the 13C:12C ratio of
testosterone is compared is another endogenous steroid, produced from
the same precursors. Whether or not diet alters the ratio therefore
isn't the question, the question is whether it alters it
*differentially* compared to the "standard".

Andy Coggan


According to WADA's own study, apparently it can, and quickly too.

http://www.bgc-jena.mpg.de/service/i..._Abstracts.pdf

I also found it interesting that the "did not exceed 3%" statement was
crossed out....hmmmm, I wonder what that means...


Note that the subjects in this study were on a cholesterol-free diet
(thus forcing much greater reliance on endogenous precursors for the
synthesis of testosterone, etc.), and that samples were obtained 5x/d
(thus enhancing the chance of observing disequilibrium). Since no data
are shown, we also don't the magnitude of the differences that were
actually observed, except that it didn't exceed the 3 per mil cut-off
used by anti-doping authorities (as emphasized by the authors through
use of bold *and* underlined* - not crossed out - text).

Andy Coggan

 




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