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#1
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OK, I'll question the isotope test.
Zoom in and look at Chart 6
http://wwwrcamnl.wr.usgs.gov/isoig/p...ouse2003_B.pdf Travel from the United States to Europe will increase your carbon-13 delta from -17 to -21, due to variations in local foods. And I'm supposed to believe that Floyd's carbon-13 results can only be explained by doping? |
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#2
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OK, I'll question the isotope test.
wimpyVO2 wrote:
Zoom in and look at Chart 6 http://wwwrcamnl.wr.usgs.gov/isoig/p...ouse2003_B.pdf Travel from the United States to Europe will increase your carbon-13 delta from -17 to -21, due to variations in local foods. Yeah and now the dehydration on the flight will get ya too. |
#3
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OK, I'll question the isotope test.
wimpyVO2 wrote:
Travel from the United States to Europe will increase your carbon-13 delta from -17 to -21, due to variations in local foods. Stu Fleming wrote: Yeah and now the dehydration on the flight will get ya too. And if it doesn't the liquids might. |
#4
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OK, I'll question the isotope test.
The variability for the del 13C is really not very much at all...review
of the differences reveal about 2 permil (2 parts pre thousand) for all the people who worked on the project (it appears the researchers were primarily Asian...) I doubt that all of these people exist on the same diet. The chart indicates the del 13C for the diet of people living in the US varies by about 1 permil. So, the results are actually quite predictable given diet. BTW...have the del 13C results for Landis been posted w/# for natural vs. synthetic? - Fred B. wimpyVO2 wrote: Zoom in and look at Chart 6 http://wwwrcamnl.wr.usgs.gov/isoig/p...ouse2003_B.pdf Travel from the United States to Europe will increase your carbon-13 delta from -17 to -21, due to variations in local foods. And I'm supposed to believe that Floyd's carbon-13 results can only be explained by doping? |
#6
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OK, I'll question the isotope test.
wrote:
wrote: The variability for the del 13C is really not very much at all...review of the differences reveal about 2 permil (2 parts pre thousand) for all the people who worked on the project (it appears the researchers were primarily Asian...) I doubt that all of these people exist on the same diet. The chart indicates the del 13C for the diet of people living in the US varies by about 1 permil. So, the results are actually quite predictable given diet. BTW...have the del 13C results for Landis been posted w/# for natural vs. synthetic? 3.99 according to Michael Henson, Landis' spokesman. Three is the threshold. http://online.wsj.com/public/article... main_tff_top In addition, the background against which the 13C:12C ratio of testosterone is compared is another endogenous steroid, produced from the same precursors. Whether or not diet alters the ratio therefore isn't the question, the question is whether it alters it *differentially* compared to the "standard". Andy Coggan |
#7
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OK, I'll question the isotope test.
wrote: In addition, the background against which the 13C:12C ratio of testosterone is compared is another endogenous steroid, produced from the same precursors. Whether or not diet alters the ratio therefore isn't the question, the question is whether it alters it *differentially* compared to the "standard". Andy Coggan According to WADA's own study, apparently it can, and quickly too. http://www.bgc-jena.mpg.de/service/i..._Abstracts.pdf I also found it interesting that the "did not exceed 3%" statement was crossed out....hmmmm, I wonder what that means... |
#8
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OK, I'll question the isotope test.
Tom_A wrote: wrote: In addition, the background against which the 13C:12C ratio of testosterone is compared is another endogenous steroid, produced from the same precursors. Whether or not diet alters the ratio therefore isn't the question, the question is whether it alters it *differentially* compared to the "standard". Andy Coggan According to WADA's own study, apparently it can, and quickly too. http://www.bgc-jena.mpg.de/service/i..._Abstracts.pdf I also found it interesting that the "did not exceed 3%" statement was crossed out....hmmmm, I wonder what that means... It looks like it may be a printing/publishing issue. Since that is also in CAPS it may be intended to be underlined for emphasis. It is unlikely that in the papers of a conference there would be strikeouts. |
#9
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OK, I'll question the isotope test.
wimpyVO2 wrote:
Zoom in and look at Chart 6 http://wwwrcamnl.wr.usgs.gov/isoig/p...ouse2003_B.pdf Travel from the United States to Europe will increase your carbon-13 delta from -17 to -21, due to variations in local foods. And I'm supposed to believe that Floyd's carbon-13 results can only be explained by doping? I've tested positive on the isotope test. Twice. And I didn't dope. On second test, I had to pay out of my own pocket. I'm no longer an athlete (was never even close to being a professional one when I went positive) and the second test was 4 months ago. I can see how people could question the first one. But the more recent one? Like I would need to dope in order to drink beer and surf up internet porn. Use some common sense folks. If doping is one but not the only explanation, then you've got to perform some additional tests and narrow it down and be certain. In a way, I hope Floyd is guilty. I would truly hate to think that someone who was actually talented and making a living competing clean was tagged due to someone half-assing the test and interpretation. At least I was not talented and it doesn't really affect me ('cept I'm out a good chunk of cash). If I was talented, I would be so ****ed that I would most certainly write another paragraph. |
#10
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OK, I'll question the isotope test.
Tom_A wrote:
wrote: In addition, the background against which the 13C:12C ratio of testosterone is compared is another endogenous steroid, produced from the same precursors. Whether or not diet alters the ratio therefore isn't the question, the question is whether it alters it *differentially* compared to the "standard". Andy Coggan According to WADA's own study, apparently it can, and quickly too. http://www.bgc-jena.mpg.de/service/i..._Abstracts.pdf I also found it interesting that the "did not exceed 3%" statement was crossed out....hmmmm, I wonder what that means... Note that the subjects in this study were on a cholesterol-free diet (thus forcing much greater reliance on endogenous precursors for the synthesis of testosterone, etc.), and that samples were obtained 5x/d (thus enhancing the chance of observing disequilibrium). Since no data are shown, we also don't the magnitude of the differences that were actually observed, except that it didn't exceed the 3 per mil cut-off used by anti-doping authorities (as emphasized by the authors through use of bold *and* underlined* - not crossed out - text). Andy Coggan |
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