#41
|
|||
|
|||
Helmet News
|
Ads |
#43
|
|||
|
|||
Helmet News
On 6/18/2018 8:42 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2018 at 12:22:09 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 6/18/2018 2:49 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, June 18, 2018 at 10:13:43 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 6/18/2018 10:03 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 6/18/2018 8:59 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, June 17, 2018 at 6:58:08 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: I avoid wrecking. ... I believe in risk compensation. Yes, we know. So how does that work with getting hit by a car, wiping out on ice, going OTB after getting hung up in a dog leash? It does work out somehow, Jay. I take measures to prevent all those things, successfully. In some cases (riding on ice) the measure is to avoid it. Note, you seem to sometimes get ice when we might get snow - but I do ride in snow. Very carefully. Falls have been rare and injuries nonexistent, except for an "ouch!" bump on the back of my head when I was about 16. (I suppose if I'd worn a bike helmet then, people would have said it saved my life.) I'm willing to slow down for a dog on a leash, including the last one that came out after me about five days ago. It's a known hazard; I watch for it. The same is true for gravel on turns, potholes, motorists who may turn left across my path, etc. I don't care much for the story that goes "I goofed up and crashed, and that proves helmets are great." Hmmm. Yes, many crashes result from "goof-ups" -- by riders, drivers, pedestrians, manufacturers, etc. I crashed on UmmaGumma tires because of Specialized's choice of tread compound. That was a serious goof-up. God goofed-up and created invisible and localized black-ice on my way to work one morning. Racers have goofed-up in front of me, crashing and piling-up like cord wood. I cartwheeled over my son who goofed-up and crashed in front of me on a wet descent -- which was due in part to slippery tread compound. I won't even get into the goof-ups by motorists. Yes, I understand. None of those were foreseeable. It's just normal behavior to fly through wet descents, to be unaware of freezing temperatures, to test the limits of new tires' traction, to push to the limit in races... How dramatic! All the sudden I'm flying through wet corners and pushing it to the limit in races! I should have my own YouTube channel. The fact is that ordinary people just riding along can get whacked or crash. Black ice is invisible and localized, and riding in temperatures below 32F is SOP for year-round commuters in the PNW. Race crashes can occur when people are bunched up and not pushing it to the limit -- or a dog runs into the field or someone hits road furniture or railroad tracks. Crashes are not confined to the finishing sprint or hair-raising descents. I live in a wet environment that is hilly and has bad roads. People can crash just riding along -- even the mayor. https://bikeportland.org/2017/11/16/...e-crash-254716 And people can get whacked by cars or other bicyclists for no reason. **** happens -- except to you, which is amazing. You should should have your own shrine, right along with the cheese sandwich with the image of the Virgin Mary. Jay, I don't think I'm all that amazing. Yes, I've had almost no bike crashes or injuries. But there are lots and lots of people whose worst lifetime bike injury is a skinned knee. That's true of my wife and my two kids, plus dozens of people I ride with. Yes, I have some friends, avid riders, who crashed and who claimed their helmets certainly saved them. Examples? The guy who tied his jacket around his handlebars and had a sleeve come loose and tangle in his front spokes. The guy who was speeding down an unfamiliar curvy hill with gravel on the road. One guy who claimed he was "just riding along" on a smooth straight road and suddenly fell for no reason. (???) Are we really supposed to prioritize plastic hats over "get some sense, please!"? But I have many more friends who crashed and incurred no head strike nor helmet damage, despite other injuries like broken collar bones or broken ribs. It's a myth that most bike crashes are TBI events, just as it's a myth that in the pre-styrofoam days, TBI events were common. And I have friends and family who have had TBI injuries that had nothing to do with bicycling, like one who ran into a fence playing outfield. One who was hit in the head by a thrown bat. Several who were TBId while riding in cars or pickup trucks. And so on. I have had, at last count, seven friends who died in car crashes, most probably from TBI. (It's seldom mentioned for car crashes.) And one who died while riding the same model motorcycle I ride. Yes, he wore a helmet. Stuff happens. It happens to motorists, pedestrians, people walking around their houses, people playing various team sports, people hiking, people swimming, people working, people just lying in bed - or more precisely, falling out of bed, a cause of death about as common as bicycling. But somehow almost none of those people are shamed if they choose not to wear a funny plastic hat. Any impartial examination of data will show that many of those activities impose more risk of death or serious TBI than does bicycling. And most of those activities don't have bicycling's tremendous benefit to risk ratio. So why is it we assume bicyclists, and only bicyclists, must "always wear a helmet"? -- - Frank Krygowski |
#44
|
|||
|
|||
Helmet News
jbeattie wrote:
People can crash just riding along -- even the mayor. https://bikeportland.org/2017/11/16/portland-mayor-ted-wheeler-breaks-ribs-in-bicycle-crash-254716 The mayor's statement indicates that his braking action could have been executed in a more careful manner. Just as a random $89.85 for a "quality" helmet could have been better spent on tires working well in Portland November, the 5.885 extra seconds (compared to a wet-weather hat) Mr. Walker spent adjusting his foam hijab would have been better spent to initiate his braking earlier. And, as this thread has already been driven deep into ribs helmet advocacy territory, I'll boldly claim there is a corresponding 85% chance Mr. Wheeler was not using the area of the road regularly cleaned by car tires in his maneuver. -- iudex non calculat. |
#45
|
|||
|
|||
Helmet News
Frank Krygowski wrote:
Regarding helmet use and brain injury: Rare as it is, the needle isn't even moving in the right direction. How many excuses for the helmet mania can people make? Again, I'd like to see professionally conducted studies with tables, charts, and figures... -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#46
|
|||
|
|||
Helmet News
On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 13:09:01 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote: Frank Krygowski wrote: Regarding helmet use and brain injury: Rare as it is, the needle isn't even moving in the right direction. How many excuses for the helmet mania can people make? Again, I'd like to see professionally conducted studies with tables, charts, and figures... One of the problems is that it isn't a simple A=B equation. Was the guy with (or without) the helmet drinking or taking dope? Were the helmet wearers (non wearers) obeying the traffic code? Was it night (day), did that make a difference? This isn't a helmet problem at all, almost every study I've read eliminated some variables in order to attempt to get a viable answer to the question of Why? Or, to be honest, in some cases to the question, "Is this going to show what I want it to"? |
#47
|
|||
|
|||
Helmet News
On Monday, June 18, 2018 at 11:52:11 PM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
jbeattie wrote: People can crash just riding along -- even the mayor. https://bikeportland.org/2017/11/16/portland-mayor-ted-wheeler-breaks-ribs-in-bicycle-crash-254716 The mayor's statement indicates that his braking action could have been executed in a more careful manner. Just as a random $89.85 for a "quality" helmet could have been better spent on tires working well in Portland November, the 5.885 extra seconds (compared to a wet-weather hat) Mr. Walker spent adjusting his foam hijab would have been better spent to initiate his braking earlier. And, as this thread has already been driven deep into ribs helmet advocacy territory, I'll boldly claim there is a corresponding 85% chance Mr. Wheeler was not using the area of the road regularly cleaned by car tires in his maneuver. You can boldly claim whatever you want, but as you can see, Mr. Wheeler rides big rubber. He was riding the same roads where I fell and broke ribs and whacked my head, which is the usual fall mechanism when you have a low side crash on 100 year old broken cement pavement that has been reduced to polished rock -- with a river running down a 7-15% grade. Wheel tracks are just channels. Alternative route to work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJRnwgPa6rM&t=119s (including trail). Coming down is tricky when it is storming. I was doing nothing unusual when I crashed -- on worn-in 28mm tires, JRA. Scene of the crime: https://tinyurl.com/yagxzbws Flip around and check out the pavement -- it's enough to loosen your fillings. I've been riding next to skilled riders who crashed on the same road in the same place in the same turn at the same moderate speed just because they hit some unseen turtle **** or moss. You try to stay out from under the trees, but some places that's impossible. Whatever you views on helmets, every crash is not a matter of rider ineptitude. -- Jay Beattie. |
#48
|
|||
|
|||
Helmet News
On 6/19/2018 7:09 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote: Regarding helmet use and brain injury: Rare as it is, the needle isn't even moving in the right direction. How many excuses for the helmet mania can people make? Again, I'd like to see professionally conducted studies with tables, charts, and figures... There is information available. I'd suggest starting with data on the magnitude bicycling's traumatic brain injury (TBI) risk, especially relative to other sources of risk. Is bicycling really an important source of traumatic brain injury? Google for causes of TBI, ranked by annual frequency. Unless you're hitting a bike helmet propaganda site, bicycling will not normally appear on the list. (As an example: In the U.S., bicyclists comprise only 0.6% of TBI fatalities. If bike helmets could prevent all of those, it would make negligible difference in the nation's medical costs.) That data should make you wonder why so much attention is given to hats on bicyclists when the problem is really so small. If for some reason (why??) you think it's necessary to further reduce the tiny risk of bicycling TBI - but ignore the much greater number of TBI cases from other causes - then you can dig into the countless studies on helmet effectiveness. This site is the most prominent pro helmet site in America. Its author wants mandatory helmet laws for all ages in all circumstances. He also provides a handy list of insults one can use against riders who choose not to use helmets. (Such a nice guy!) https://helmets.org/ Here are two of the more prominent helmet skeptic sites. Please note that, unlike that pro-helmet site, these people do not want to use laws to impose their views on others. In other words, they don't want to make helmets illegal; they just want to allow personal choice, and they don't want bicycling demonized with "Danger! Danger!" propaganda. http://www.cyclehelmets.org/ is an older site, and while it has links to hundreds of research papers both pro and con, it has not been well maintained for several years. http://cycle-helmets.com/ is currently maintained. It tends to be more specific to Australia and New Zealand (the only countries with current all-ages mandatory helmet laws, IIRC). It tends to have reams and reams of data, much of which requires some work to understand. When you read the pro-helmet propaganda, carefully note the propaganda tricks. For example, understand that the terms "brain injury" and "head injury" are NOT equivalent. Much propaganda on risk of TBI and on helmet effectiveness purposely conflates the two terms. Also be careful of "weasel words" like "up to..." or "as many as..." which are used in selling helmets, just as in selling miracle diets, deodorants or snake oil. Beware of injury counts that span decades in order to use larger scarier numbers; or of injury counts that are not compared to counts for other activities, like pedestrian travel or motorist travel. Happy reading ... for the next year, if you really want to get into it. ;-) -- - Frank Krygowski |
#49
|
|||
|
|||
Helmet News
On 19/06/2018 12:33 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2018 at 11:52:11 PM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote: jbeattie wrote: People can crash just riding along -- even the mayor. https://bikeportland.org/2017/11/16/portland-mayor-ted-wheeler-breaks-ribs-in-bicycle-crash-254716 The mayor's statement indicates that his braking action could have been executed in a more careful manner. Just as a random $89.85 for a "quality" helmet could have been better spent on tires working well in Portland November, the 5.885 extra seconds (compared to a wet-weather hat) Mr. Walker spent adjusting his foam hijab would have been better spent to initiate his braking earlier. And, as this thread has already been driven deep into ribs helmet advocacy territory, I'll boldly claim there is a corresponding 85% chance Mr. Wheeler was not using the area of the road regularly cleaned by car tires in his maneuver. You can boldly claim whatever you want, but as you can see, Mr. Wheeler rides big rubber. He was riding the same roads where I fell and broke ribs and whacked my head, which is the usual fall mechanism when you have a low side crash on 100 year old broken cement pavement that has been reduced to polished rock -- with a river running down a 7-15% grade. Wheel tracks are just channels. Alternative route to work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJRnwgPa6rM&t=119s (including trail). Coming down is tricky when it is storming. I was doing nothing unusual when I crashed -- on worn-in 28mm tires, JRA. Scene of the crime: https://tinyurl.com/yagxzbws Flip around and check out the pavement -- it's enough to loosen your fillings. Meh, that would be a luxury road in Quebec. Check around Morin Heights, Sutton or more north toward Tremblant. You spend hours climbing and then have to brake on the descents because of the potholes. I've been riding next to skilled riders who crashed on the same road in the same place in the same turn at the same moderate speed just because they hit some unseen turtle **** or moss. You try to stay out from under the trees, but some places that's impossible. Whatever you views on helmets, every crash is not a matter of rider ineptitude. Well you could have been creeping along looking for the turtle **** or moss. Or you could refuse to ride roads with tree cover. |
#50
|
|||
|
|||
Helmet News
On 6/19/2018 12:33 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2018 at 11:52:11 PM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote: jbeattie wrote: People can crash just riding along -- even the mayor. https://bikeportland.org/2017/11/16/portland-mayor-ted-wheeler-breaks-ribs-in-bicycle-crash-254716 The mayor's statement indicates that his braking action could have been executed in a more careful manner. Just as a random $89.85 for a "quality" helmet could have been better spent on tires working well in Portland November, the 5.885 extra seconds (compared to a wet-weather hat) Mr. Walker spent adjusting his foam hijab would have been better spent to initiate his braking earlier. And, as this thread has already been driven deep into ribs helmet advocacy territory, I'll boldly claim there is a corresponding 85% chance Mr. Wheeler was not using the area of the road regularly cleaned by car tires in his maneuver. You can boldly claim whatever you want, but as you can see, Mr. Wheeler rides big rubber. He was riding the same roads where I fell and broke ribs and whacked my head, which is the usual fall mechanism when you have a low side crash on 100 year old broken cement pavement that has been reduced to polished rock -- with a river running down a 7-15% grade. Wheel tracks are just channels. Alternative route to work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJRnwgPa6rM&t=119s (including trail). Coming down is tricky when it is storming. I was doing nothing unusual when I crashed -- on worn-in 28mm tires, JRA. Scene of the crime: https://tinyurl.com/yagxzbws Flip around and check out the pavement -- it's enough to loosen your fillings. I've been riding next to skilled riders who crashed on the same road in the same place in the same turn at the same moderate speed just because they hit some unseen turtle **** or moss. You try to stay out from under the trees, but some places that's impossible. Whatever you views on helmets, every crash is not a matter of rider ineptitude. OK, aside from the crash caused by the tandem fork suddenly breaking off, my only other moving on-road fall happened like this: It was winter. I was riding home from work down a short steep downtown hill. (The grade is over 15%, the hill is only 200 feet long, and the road's since been closed to traffic.) There was lots of road salt on the surface so I was descending very slowly, less than 10 mph. I suddenly noticed that the patch of stuff just in front of me wasn't road salt. Instead it was broken glass. I swerved rightward to avoid it. My front tire slipped on the road salt and I fell. I scratched my knee and tore my windbreaker. I didn't say "That was an act of God." I didn't say "Nobody could have avoided that." Instead I said "Damn; I screwed up." I try hard to not screw up. -- - Frank Krygowski |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
HELMET NEWS | datakoll | Techniques | 0 | May 7th 13 12:34 PM |
Cyclists' helmet cameras (BBC 1 News, 1pm) | brass monkey | UK | 0 | February 2nd 11 01:29 AM |
Great news on the helmet front! | Squashme | UK | 0 | May 15th 09 09:13 PM |
In the News: Sizing up the sports helmet market | Jason Spaceman | Techniques | 3 | July 28th 08 12:35 AM |
The anti Helmet on this news group | gareth price | UK | 17 | August 19th 06 04:32 PM |